Pentagonlight Impressions and Comparison

Hi.

I had the cool chance to participate in a German passaround containing the following Pentagonlights:
- PX2 Xenon
- L2 Luxeon3
- X3 Xenon

Here's a size comparison shot in descending order:



After playing with them 2 evenings here's what I think:


Construction:

They are relatively massive lights that offer a good grip. Some don't like the "expressive" machining on the PL but I think this is personal gusto and is not to be judged.
The HA seems fine both in black and nat where the nat is remarkably dull and non-reflective. I didn't see any obvious imperfections in the machining process.
BUT ... there are several weak points to be addressed:

1) the lens has very rough edges making it easier to chip under stress and possibly compromising water resistence. I tried to capture it in a pic but failed:



2) as you can see in the pic above you need to open up the bezel to change the lamp which is bad for several reasons, read more under "Ergonomics". Most important it stresses the lens and might allow dirt to compromise water seals.

3) the gold contacts wear down in no time exposing bare metal and making themselves pretty much useless:



4) the switches can crush batteries when too tight and especially the clicky is a real POS (see below)

5) the twisting action of the switches and the head feels a bit wobbly and less silky smooth than a SF, and the double o-rings engage before the threads making it a bit more difficult to put the things together than it needed to be


Ergonomics:

Operation on all three is pretty simple ... switch on/off with either a twisty LOTC or a clicky. As mentioned above, the big problem is the switch action as the clicky is very hard to push (the rubber) and gives almost no feedback if it actually clicked to constant-on or not. Another bad part here is the fact that you can overtighten the switches and crush the batteries.

I personnally do not like it when batteries are inserted the "wrong way" (--> nipple versus the end) as one might accidently insert them the usual way, and that means there is a learning curve and you'd have to pay attention to that detail. I labeled this point "personal" because Inova users might actually find this very relaxing and perfectly allright.

Changing the lamp is another PITA as you have to unscrew the bezel (non-knurled) for that and the lens is exposed in the process and might fall out or get dirty, thus possibly compromising water resistence. Maybe I am stupid but I did not find another way to change the lamp and in the manual this isn't indicated at all.

As said above, the o-rings engage before the threads making the mating sometimes difficult.

A very minor and stupid point is that due to the closed body on the front end the batteries are much less likely to fall out and roll away on the floor under the nearest table in the far away corner while messing with the light in disassambled state. Not that this would be important, but it got my attention nevertheless


The Light

Despite the shortcomings in construction and machining, something good comes out of the business end: light.
Light formed into a beautiful beam in all three models, and according to my Eyeball MkI the brightness of the lights was completely satisfactory when compared to their SF counterparts. The L2 LED had a nice and almost perfect beam, too, and following Don's runtime graph in an older thread, it can keep it up for about 90 minutes.

Here are some comparisons:



An Aleph1 (27mm) with a TY0J at 1000mA was matched with the PL L2 LED. While the Aleph was a bit brighter, the L2 had a somewhat bogger and softer spot. Roughly speaking ... non-scientific ... the PL L2 does well.




The PX2 vs. the SF G2 (P60) ... there is an interesting difference: the Pentagonlight has a significantly tighter corona while the total output should roughly be the same. Beam quality is good, too, so ... non-scientific ... the PX2 does well.

Unfortunately I couldn't plot the PL X3 vs the C3 (P90 and P91) as my P90 is faulty and produces a funky beam and because I don't have the P91 yet.


Conclusion

In the end, the Pentagonlights I have tested perform well, at least in my non-tactical environment. However they do fall short in construction and machining when compared to the gold standard ... Surefire. Their appealing aspect is the relatively low price point and correct output.
Did Pentagonlight de-throne Surefire? Heck, no, not at all. Surefires are still a different class of their own.
Are Pentagonlights bad lights then? No, they aren't. Especially not for the price. They do have some negative aspects though you should be aware of before purchasing.


bernie


P.S.: Please note that I did not try to scratch the HA nor did I perform any other possibly destructive test as the lights are not mine. Also ... I cannot offer long-term experiences, especially not runtime graphs which would have been informative.


A big THANK YOU goes to those kind folks providing the lights for the passaround: Mark2, chrisse242 and mohr ... :thumbsup: :bow: :wave:

I found myself going back to that first beam shot pic over and over.
I think I met her years ago. I might be misstaken.
Topper

I already posted some of my impressions in a pentagonlight-related thread, but since I had all those lights before Bernie got them, I'll leave my two cents here as well.
I mostly agree with what Bernie said about those lights but I see a few things different. First, I do not deserve any thanks for the passaround. None of this lights is mine, I was just the first to get them. Ah well, perhaps he wanted to thank me for the three used cr123's I left in the X3?

Back to topic:

Like Bernie said, the switches are horrible, all of them. Those lights are made to kill batteries by crushing them, which is another major con as far as I'm concerned. I also found some (minor) imperfections in machining and annodizing, perhaps my eyes are a little better? :nana:

Yes, output is good but that's about it. With each time I think about my experience with those lights, one thing becomes more and more obvious: As long as they don't work on ergonomics and the crushed battery issues, pentagonlight could sell the lights for a lot less, I wouldn't buy them.

So the thing that's different is my conclusion: These are bad lights. We have a few lights with good output, good ergonomics, good fit and finish and not all of them are as pricey as surefires. Right now, I see no reason to buy a pentagonlight or recommend one to anybody. As always, YMMV.

Chrisse

Bad lights? I don't think thats true. And whats' this talk of crushing batteries? I have 3 Pentagonlights - L2,X3 & X2 - and don't have this problem. It sounds to me like you guys are tightening the tailcap down too far. As long as both o-rings are covered the tailcap is on far enough. I think the clickie tailcap being hard to push is deliberate, as it is probably meant to prevent accidental activation and give momentary capability.

However, there are some thing I don't like that some of you eluded to in your post.

I also don't like how the lens falls out when you remove the bezel and the lens does have rough edges which is not good.

I also don't think there is enough threading.

The bezels' metal thickness seems a little thin.

I must admit that I went around blasting my mouth off about how good Pentys' were when I first got mine. But now that I've had them awhile I can say that I agree with the assesment that they are not quite as good as Surefires'. I just recently bought a new SF 9P and after "fondling" that along with the Pentys', it became clear.

Are Pentys' "bad lights" as someone else said? I don't think so. As a matter of fact I think they are actually pretty good lights. The Penty L2-3W is tremendous bang for the buck. I'd say thats' their best light.

To give them a rating on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best, I'd say PentagonLights come in at a respectable 8-ish. In comparison, Surefire is definetly 9.5 - 10.

I had to look around but I did find a Pentagonlight PX2 (I knew I had one somewhere) For me its an OK light. I do not use it but hey I got many lights I do not use. To rate it compared to a Surefire? If Surefire is Benchmark at 10
I would give my PX2 a 6.5 overall if you can not afford a Surefire (no shame there they cost too dang much) I would consider a Pentagonlight PX2 just as quick as I would recommend the Brinkman 2 123 cell lights. Just my thoughts
no offence intended to anyone more happy or less happy with the one they got.
Topper

Huh? I have an X3, X2 and L2, and have none of the problems mentioned.

My lenses aren't rough around the edges (and all three are glass). By design, the switches can't crush the batteries (unless the tailswitch is being extremely overtightened). Also, the non-push button tailcap is identical to the tailcaps used on the Pelican M6 incan. The same internals, etc.

How many times was the lamp removed in order to grind down the head's contact?

I think they're great lights sooo ----> :nana:

--dan

currently own- 3 X3, 2 X2, 2 L2 (in the shop)

my thoughts:

i use pentagonlights almost exclusively on both my job and my weekend urban explorations. i work general construction and have found that the lights handle dirt, dust and other miscellaneous crap found on site spectacularly. in regard to durability i find my pentagonlights handle drops very well and have not suffered any blown lamps from drops as was common with my SFG2 (the only SF i have owned.) the lights are also cheap and very effective weapon lights. this area of lighting does not seem to be focused on here very much but i have mounted an X3 to my AMD65 and fired several hundred rounds with no problem. i have never had any problems with battery crushing but i suspect that either the batteries were inserted backwards (as with my PM6HA) or the tailcap was overly tightened that caused this problem. i have dealt with their customer service twice, once to recieve replacement mineral glass lenses and once to have both my blown L2 heads replaced. both times the gentleman i spoke to was friendly and personable.

I do have some minor complaints about the lights so far after using at least one pentagonlight everyday for the past 6 or so months.

-the push tailcaps do not work very well. if the tailcap is not almost completely tightened towards constant on the beam will not light to full intensity when the cap is pushed. this problem is present on all my push tailcaps.

-their clickie sucks. there is no feedback unless you use your index finger to turn the light on. but i leave my clickie activated + locked out anyway so i don't every real click it.

-the lights are overly large. i don't care since i used to carry an XO3 in my front pocket, but it may matter to some.

the reasons i use these lights:

-inexpensive in comparison to surefire. (@120 lumens + HA for 80$ with the X3)

-all lights are water proof + shock-isolated.

-can substitute surefire lamp assemblies if you use a little ingenuity. (the middle light in the picture above has a P90 lamp assembly with an index card collar that makes up for the slight size difference.)

-their light lineup is not as convoluted as surefire's.

-HA is sexy

How many times was the lamp removed in order to grind down the head's contact?

Click to expand...

for me this happened the first time i took out my X2 assembly. also, the plastic lenses that came with my lights at first were rough but the mineral glass replacements are all smooth.

in summation; i also think they're great lights

p.s. i used a small piece of newspaper to keep my lenses in when i change the lamp assembly.

I noticed the rough and poorly-fitting lens, too. For the PentagonLight L2, the 29.3 mm UCL (purchased separately, of course) makes a very nice replacement. It's very difficult to get the bezel unscrewed for the first time, though. Be prepared to use a pair of strap wrenches and a lot of muscle.

Mine has good output and a very white beam, but my Pelican M6 3W and Aleph 1 both smoke it in throw. Overall, I consider the PL L2 to be a good Luxeon flashlight but not exceptional. If PentagonLight upgrades to a tighter-throwing reflector and a better lens, they will have a great product that might at least claim a solid 2nd place under Surefire's LED lights.

All right, the batteries get crushed when you screw the tailcaps all the way down. The fact that it is possible to overtighten the tailcaps is the weak point. I've never seen this in any other light. Perhaps they want to compensate battery length tolerances with this design, but that's a stupid design. And still, what I said is my impression, if someone else is happy with a pentagonlight, this is perfectly fine for me.

Chrisse

Kiessling: It's not just the Inovas, other lights have the positive contact towards the tailcap as well, think of Laser Devices and NightCutter.

chrisse242 said:

These are bad lights. [...] Right now, I see no reason to buy a pentagonlight or recommend one to anybody.

Click to expand...

Bad lights, eh?

Mark2 said:

Bad lights, eh?

Click to expand...

Ahh well, I probbaly shouldn't write reviews late in the evening. Bad might be a little harsh. I still wouldn't buy or recommend one. If someone likes the ergonomics, that's ok for me.
But I forgot to mention one thing. The twisty type switch on the px2 had a funny behaviour. When pressing the button for momentary on, it sometimes needed up to two seconds before the light went of after releasing the button. Meanwhile it would flicker, just like the button got stuck somehow.

Chrisse

asdalton said:

I noticed the rough and poorly-fitting lens, too. For the PentagonLight L2, the 29.3 mm UCL (purchased separately, of course) makes a very nice replacement.

Click to expand...

Where do you get this lens? Flashlightlens.com? Does it fit nicely or does it take some work to to get it in there?

I'm quite happy that someone finally took a closer look at the pentagon lights and pointed out a few flaws that werent mentioned at first, when everyone was raving about them.

Over-tightening the tailcap is a user-error that should not end in damaged batteries. Its a matter of construction/engineering to avoid this.

I bought a PentagonLight L2-HA and am very happy with it. I like its unique design and the HA finish is excellent. I compared the beam to that of my favorite Surefire, the L2, and found my PentagonLight L2 is definitely whiter than my Surefire L2, has a tighter hotspot, and has a respectable flood, though not as good as the famous "wall of light" made by the Surefire L2. The only real negative, in my opinion, is that the clicky switch (mine has the TC-4) does not report well (very weak click). However, I feel that, for under $80, the PentagonLight L2 is the best LED in its class.





(L to R: SF M4, SF M6, SF L2, PentagonLight L2, SF E2e, SF E1e-KL1)

How would you compare them to Wolf-Eyes/Pila lights?

-LT

asdalton said:

Mine has good output and a very white beam, but my Pelican M6 3W and Aleph 1 both smoke it in throw. Overall, I consider the PL L2 to be a good Luxeon flashlight but not exceptional. If PentagonLight upgrades to a tighter-throwing reflector and a better lens, they will have a great product that might at least claim a solid 2nd place under Surefire's LED lights.

Click to expand...

Um...the L2 and M6 use the same reflector. My PL L2 actually has an almost smooth reflector comapared to the M6, though they're both the same size.

-dan

Hey chrisse ... ... I wouldn't buy one either nor recommend one, but this is from a "best-of-the-best-only" perspective which is not fair IMHO. So ... if you cover all the dynamic range from "best" (think SF) to "poorest" (think Goncz) the PL is somewhere in the middle, but not more.

Crushing batteries ... when you tighten the switch down. Of course you shouldn't do it, but the fact that it's possible AND could have been easily avoided in construction AND together with the lights being advertised as "tactical" meaning they are used in stressful situations makes me think that this point really is a very negative aspect, and stupid at that.


dano ... you must have different lights then. Those we saw weren't good lights. I do not know how often the head was removed as I am not the original owner ... but looking at some sharp edges of the springs of the lamp module I can easily understand that the gold contacts were doomed from the beginning and had a very short life expectancy.

The strong point they do offer is price vs output ration which is good IMHO. If runtime and durability hold up, but that I cannot judge.

Mark2 ... I don't know anything about other lights that have the batteries backwards, and I think this is rather subjective that I don't like it. I don't like to think a lot when using lights, and all my lights insert the batts normally.

BBL.. thanx


bernie

Kiessling said:

Hey chrisse ... ... I wouldn't buy one either nor recommend one, but this is from a "best-of-the-best-only" perspective which is not fair IMHO.

Click to expand...

Not really. I'm impatiently waiting for my streamlight TL-3 and I'm expecting it to be superior to the PL in all aspects that count for me. I've never heard of any problems with crushed batteries in a streamlight and I expect the switch to be easy to activate. I don't know anything about the scorpions clicky, but I've never read anything bad about it.
HA III actually doesn't mean much to me, and I don't care for gold plated contacts, at least as long as they fade away in use.
So if you compare Streamlight and Pentagonlight, which is more fair given the price range of those lights, who would win?

Chrisse

Mark2 said:

Kiessling: It's not just the Inovas, other lights have the positive contact towards the tailcap as well, think of Laser Devices and NightCutter.

Click to expand...

And Wolf Eyes, Pila, and Microfire.

My Streamlight experience is really limited and in the distant past, so I don't know. I guess you are right, and I am a softie with a mild judgement. :wave:
bernie