Battery explosion with Fenix P1D

[SoSa]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Ouch - but by the sound of it, it could have been a great deal worse. It will serve as another compelling reason not to buy El Cheapo junk cells. A warning needs to be circulated about these particular ones.

How long into the run-time test was it? And did you leave the light tailstanding while it was running, or were you holding it? Did you notice anything unusual just before it blew?

I think this thread probably belongs in the "Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included" forum.

During the walk I used it on primary for less than an hour. As I mentioned formerly i used it very little (ten minutes, or so). After returning home i left it resting for an hour and wanted to see how much juice was left in it. The runtime of P1D on primary is more than two hours.

I put it on a desk tailstanding to se how much energy these particular batteries are holding. Before the explosion nothing unusual happened. It did not get warm or anything. Just a few second before the explosion the flickering I mentioned formerly.


I put this thread into this section intentionally to show how resilient modern led flashlight are, but if you think it should belong to another section it is fine, but I do not know how to transfer.

 

[paulr]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Wow, thanks for the thread and photos. I sure have my suspicions about whether the expensive brands of batteries are really any different from the cheap ones except for the higher price tag making some executives rich. I certainly notice a chemical smell coming from expensive lithium cells just like from cheap ones. I happen to have bought a few 123 lights recently but overall I think AA lights continue to make a lot more sense. E.g. the Fenix L1D CE is a little smaller in diameter and just 15mm or so longer than the P2D, has exactly the same features and about the same performance, but has close to zero operating cost (NiMH AA cell) and I've never heard of a NiMH AA exploding in a light.

 

[carrot]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

This is bad. This would be the first single-cell thermal runaway we have seen on CPF. Thankfully it was not a brand name cell or we would really be in a pickle, though one should exercise caution no matter the brand.

SoSa, if you have touched any of the residue or inhaled any of the fumes, go to your doctor IMMEDIATELY. Tell him that you believe you may have been exposed to Hydrogen Fluoride. HF is a dangerous acid that goes right through your skin and attaches to the calcium in your bones. The PDF Bombelman links to should probably also be printed out and given to your doctor if you have been exposed to any of the battery's fumes or residue.

 

[wintermute]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

This is bad. This would be the first single-cell thermal runaway we have seen on CPF. Thankfully it was not a brand name cell or we would really be in a pickle, though one should exercise caution no matter the brand.

SoSa, if you have touched any of the residue or inhaled any of the fumes, go to your doctor IMMEDIATELY. Tell him that you believe you may have been exposed to Hydrogen Fluoride. HF is a dangerous acid that goes right through your skin and attaches to the calcium in your bones. The PDF Bombelman links to should probably also be printed out and given to your doctor if you have been exposed to any of the battery's fumes or residue.

Great advice as always from the orange one...I think I shall name him "Yoda carrot"

 

[abvidledUK]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

The Battery is still on sale and the price is Euro 1,39 which is USD 1.89. I would not call that cheap.(At least not in the US)

You know, the most interesting thing is it happened without warning. The battery was in the flashlight for a couple of months now. I did not use this light much (short nights, and my latest purchase is a Lumapower). Yesterday night I took the P1D for a walk and was a bit shocked that the battery is almost dead. Returning home i put in on a desk and switched on to see how much juice was left in it. After a few minutes the light started flickering. It was not hot at all.

I leaned over it to see what is going on, and this was when he battery exploded. The light jumped off the desk, and piece of it hit my head. Interestingly the battery was left on the desk hissing and sparkling. Actually it burnt a hole into the tablecloth and left a mark in the wood itself.

Not from these was it ?

http://translate.google.com/transla...owerstation+cr123&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G

http://translate.google.com/transla...owerstation+cr123&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G


Don't appear to be available in UK, apart from

http://www.qualityflashlights.co.uk/termekekmain.php?csoportid=7

As inc CR123's

I understand this can happen with just one CR123, after mechanical shock, if dropped.

BTW, are 3 threads on this really necessary ?

 

[SoSa]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

This is bad. This would be the first single-cell thermal runaway we have seen on CPF. Thankfully it was not a brand name cell or we would really be in a pickle, though one should exercise caution no matter the brand.

SoSa, if you have touched any of the residue or inhaled any of the fumes, go to your doctor IMMEDIATELY. Tell him that you believe you may have been exposed to Hydrogen Fluoride. HF is a dangerous acid that goes right through your skin and attaches to the calcium in your bones. The PDF Bombelman links to should probably also be printed out and given to your doctor if you have been exposed to any of the battery's fumes or residue.

Carrot,

Thank you, but it is summer here and all the windows were open for good ventilation. I did not touch any of the residue without protection.

Nevertheless, thanks a lot!

 

[SoSa]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Not from these was it ?

http://translate.google.com/transla...owerstation+cr123&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G

http://translate.google.com/transla...owerstation+cr123&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G


Don't appear to be available in UK, apart from

http://www.qualityflashlights.co.uk/termekekmain.php?csoportid=7

As inc CR123's

Yes, those are the sources. I did not want to name them, but they are selling at least in the U.K., Germany, Austria, France and Hungary.

 

[cliff]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

This is bad. This would be the first single-cell thermal runaway we have seen on CPF. Thankfully it was not a brand name cell or we would really be in a pickle, though one should exercise caution no matter the brand.

I'm still trying to figure out how this type of thing can happen with a single cell. If it is even remotely possible, it could logically happen with any brand of battery.

Also, how do you exercise caution with a single-cell light? Other than holding the light with welding gloves I'm stumped.

 

[SilverFox]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Hello SoSa,

Glad to hear that you are OK.

I am not sure what happened, but a wild guess is that the cell shorted out internally causing it to rapidly vent.

Tom

 

[WildChild]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

I'm still trying to figure out how this type of thing can happen with a single cell. If it is even remotely possible, it could logically happen with any brand of battery.

Also, how do you exercise caution with a single-cell light? Other than holding the light with welding gloves I'm stumped.

Internal short, small hot spot then thermal runaway?

Can an internal short happen when discharging?

I think most Li-Ion laptop battery packs explosions were caused by internal shorts. But was it during discharge or during charge?

 

[carrot]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Also, how do you exercise caution with a single-cell light? Other than holding the light with welding gloves I'm stumped.

I meant, to exercise caution when handling and storing lithium batteries. Keeping them cool and dry, for starters, may help.

 

[fluke]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Is this likely with any Lithium type cell ???

AA
AAA
And just about any other ???

 

[elgarak]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

I'm still trying to figure out how this type of thing can happen with a single cell. If it is even remotely possible, it could logically happen with any brand of battery.

Also, how do you exercise caution with a single-cell light? Other than holding the light with welding gloves I'm stumped.

One thing is getting more and more clear: It's a bad idea to try to squeeze the last bit of energy out of a CR123A.

 

[Thujone]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

the dollar is weak

Ah come on, please dont tease us about that...:mecry:

 

[GarageBoy]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

This is bad. This would be the first single-cell thermal runaway we have seen on CPF. Thankfully it was not a brand name cell or we would really be in a pickle, though one should exercise caution no matter the brand.

SoSa, if you have touched any of the residue or inhaled any of the fumes, go to your doctor IMMEDIATELY. Tell him that you believe you may have been exposed to Hydrogen Fluoride. HF is a dangerous acid that goes right through your skin and attaches to the calcium in your bones. The PDF Bombelman links to should probably also be printed out and given to your doctor if you have been exposed to any of the battery's fumes or residue.

Just your balls, HF (hydrogen Flouride) itself is not an acid..in aqueous form, it's known as Hydroflouric Acid (one of the strong acids [100% dissociation in water)

I'm sticking with tested BatteryStation batts

 

[mooman]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Not that this is a battery review...but I've been using Titanium batteries in quite a few different lights (both factory and mods) with no problems.

 

[HarveyRich]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Originally Posted by SoSa: During the walk I used it on primary for less than an hour. As I mentioned formerly i used it very little (ten minutes, or so). After returning home i left it resting for an hour and wanted to see how much juice was left in it. The runtime of P1D on primary is more than two hours

If one suspects a problem it's probably better to test the voltage first with a DMM.

Originally Posted by Cliff: If it is even remotely possible, it could logically happen with any brand of battery

Even though quality control varies by company, I guess that many, if not most of the major brand batteries are actually manufactured in China.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Glad you are ok.

Thanks for posting yet another reminder of the danger with Lithium cells. Unlike the overcharging explosions/fire/major thermal event, this discharge/internal short scenario is pretty tame in comparison. Thanks for sharing it with us! :thumbsup:

 

[ltiu]

Re: Fenix P1D after battery explosion

Very important: READ: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124776

And this quoted from: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114455

" ... Please remember, if you have one of these Lithium 123 cells fail on you, especially if you inhale the fumes, are cut by any of the flying material, or get it on your skin, please see a doctor immediately, and take the MSDS sheet with you, so they know the hazardous items like the very nasty HydroFluoric Acid. ... "

OK, now you are scaring me. I'm scheduled to go in to a cave this coming weekend and I have decided to use AA Energizer Lithiums in my headlight. What if those things blow inside the low and narrow cave!

Panic, gag, pass out?

 

[fluke]

I am also panicing.
I have always got either a P3DCE/L1DCE/L2DCE all on lithiums.
Should I be worried ???
I also carry spare AAA/AA/CR123A in the car, do I need to be concerned ???