Flashlight operation: clicks, presses, etc.

[Berneck1]

You might want to rethink how you are purchasing your lights. I used to do this myself. Partly it was because I didn't know exactly what I wanted, and partly because I just wanted the next newest light available. Now, one of the first things I do when looking at a new light is see what the UI is like. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. I don't care about performance, looks or anything else until I'm satisfied with the UI. One thing for sure these days, you will get the light you want, you may just have to wait. Every company is trying to keep up with the other....


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[Beckler]

You might want to rethink how you are purchasing your lights. I used to do this myself. Partly it was because I didn't know exactly what I wanted, and partly because I just wanted the next newest light available. Now, one of the first things I do when looking at a new light is see what the UI is like. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. I don't care about performance, looks or anything else until I'm satisfied with the UI. One thing for sure these days, you will get the light you want, you may just have to wait. Every company is trying to keep up with the other....

^ That's sensible to be sure but also highlights the problem - you can't just buy whatever you want because you won't be able to use it! I guess I'm trying to compel people like Nitecore to at least be consistent where you can and actually think about the interface and develop some strategy for future lights. And again to my original point, whatever organization could even do such a thing, should propose a standard interface scheme.

Of course were there any actually smart companies out there, a better physical control scheme rather than just 1 button would be possible, and be fully intuitive. (The dual button and other layouts from what I see, are still really bad IMO. I'm really just talking about electronic button lights above, but even control ring isn't done right.) Anyway this requires innovation but there's none of that in flashlights really.

 

[greenlight]

Anyway this requires innovation but there's none of that in flashlights really.

that's not fair..

 

[Beckler]

that's not fair..

Hyperbole but for a reason.

 

[jellydonut]

The only UIs I can tolerate are single-mode, two-stage (a la the A2), and Malkoff's hi-lo twisting head. The magnetic ring selectors work quite well too.

If a light has a ton of useless modes and has to be switched on and off to cycle through them, I don't want it. Needless to say, this has put some natural limits on the size of my light drawer. Perhaps I should be thankful instead of bitter that most lights being sold are completely uninteresting to me. :v

 

[Str8stroke]

One reason I like QTC lights. Or HDS Rotary style. I know they don't fit every application, but they do fit most of mine. I do admit to practicing with some of my lights. Memorizing how the UI works.

Some can be quite complicated. "Is it the 3rd press & click and hold, or 3 presses then a click and a hold"? Then when a battery starts to die, it can throw your brain for a loop.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

If you have so many flashlights that you can't remember how to operate them then you have too many flashlights.

 

[twistedraven]

I came into the high-end flashlight hobby thinking the Nitecore tactical ring was going to be the perfect UI because of its simplicity and straight-forward nature.

Turns out i was wrong, and I vastly preferred the Zebralight UI. The Zebralight was the very UI that I was afraid of getting into when reading jumbled mess of instructions on their lights' product pages. The variable brightness idea is cool in theory, but in real practice, you end up only using about 3-4 set brightnesses just like you would with any other flashlight. It depends on the flashlight maker to come up with good enough mode spacing (imo the better ones have a low that's <2lumens, a medium that's 30-50 lumens, and a high that's max output.)

Turns out that having only one button, and being able to access both your low and high mode instantaneously from off with only one hand was a better option than a rotary ring. To me it boiled down to two ways of operation: holding down the button to get low, keep holding it to cycle through modes and get medium if you want, or just clicking it to get instant high. The only weakness in the Zebralight UI is that you get a bright flash of high if you try to double-click to get medium, but I just alleviate that by skipping that option altogether.

So if there was a standardization of flashlight UI, I'd say all of them need to be able to access low and high from off instantaneously. All the rest can be up to the manufacturer.

 

[monkeyboy]

I agree with the OP 100%. I've only purchased ~5 flashlights in the last 2 years, compared to 100's in the past for this very reason. Ideally, my perfect UI would consist of 2-4 brightness levels and nothing else. I'm tired of seeing all these new flashlight "innovations" and wish they would just upgrade the old models with the latest LEDs. e.g. Fenix had the perfect UI; a forward clicky with 2 levels. Head tight = High, head loose = low. I've owned the Fenix TK11(xr-e), TK11(xp-g), E11 and E21 all of which are not available to buy any more and have been replaced by new versions with overcomplicated UIs.
Unfortunately this is the way that all of the Chinese manufacturers seem to be going. Increasing drive levels and adding more modes may get more sales but it does not make for a more practical flashlight and at some point it just gets ridiculous.

These are some of the things I do NOT like;
1) Flashing modes. I've never had to use SOS before, and lets face it, strobe mode is not going to prevent you from getting attacked.
2) Programability. There is always the risk of accidentally reprogramming the light, and if you haven't used the light for a while, you forget which "subset" of modes you are on.
3) Standby mode. It's possible to confuse standby with off.
4) Variable brightness. This makes it difficult to judge runtime.
5) 0.001 lm moon mode.
6) Excessively high drive levels in a small body resulting in inadequate heatsinking. The flashlight becomes a hand burner or else throttles down to a lower output.

This is what I DO want to see on new flashlights;
1) The latest LEDs. e.g. Surefire and Maglite always seem be one step behind in this department.
2) More efficient electronics. There's no point in having the latest LED in the top flux bin combined with inefficient electronics. In particular, the efficiency of the lower modes needs to be improved.
3) Better tint selection. I'm no tint snob, but a strong bile green tint can ruin a perfectly good flashlight.

 

[Tusk]

I agree with the OP 100%. I've only purchased ~5 flashlights in the last 2 years, compared to 100's in the past for this very reason. Ideally, my perfect UI would consist of 2-4 brightness levels and nothing else. I'm tired of seeing all these new flashlight "innovations" and wish they would just upgrade the old models with the latest LEDs. e.g...... Fenix had the perfect UI; a forward clicky with 2 levels. Head tight = High, head loose = low...... I've owned the Fenix TK11(xr-e), TK11(xp-g), E11 and E21 all of which are not available to buy any more and have been replaced by new versions with overcomplicated UIs.
Unfortunately this is the way that all of the Chinese manufacturers seem to be going. Increasing drive levels and adding more modes may get more sales but it does not make for a more practical flashlight and at some point it just gets ridiculous.

These are some of the things I do NOT like;
1) Flashing modes. I've never had to use SOS before, and lets face it, strobe mode is not going to prevent you from getting attacked.
2) Programability. There is always the risk of accidentally reprogramming the light, and if you haven't used the light for a while, you forget which "subset" of modes you are on.
3) Standby mode. It's possible to confuse standby with off.
4) Variable brightness. This makes it difficult to judge runtime.
5) 0.001 lm moon mode.
6) Excessively high drive levels in a small body resulting in inadequate heatsinking. The flashlight becomes a hand burner or else throttles down to a lower output.

This is what I DO want to see on new flashlights;
1) The latest LEDs. e.g. Surefire and Maglite always seem be one step behind in this department.
2) More efficient electronics. There's no point in having the latest LED in the top flux bin combined with inefficient electronics. In particular, the efficiency of the lower modes needs to be improved.
3) Better tint selection. I'm no tint snob, but a strong bile green tint can ruin a perfectly good flashlight.

+1

 

[maglite mike]

I assume none of you have tried the maglite Xl200? In my opinion, It's the most intuitive and innovative UI in the industry.

 

[markr6]

I don't have one, but an HDS rotary seems like the best of the best IMO. I just can't afford one!

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I assume none of you have tried the maglite Xl200? In my opinion, It's the most intuitive and innovative UI in the industry.

:fail:

 

[monkeyboy]

I assume none of you have tried the maglite Xl200? In my opinion, It's the most intuitive and innovative UI in the industry.

I'm not sure if that was intended as sarcasm, but I did watch a youtube review of the XL200 in which I nodded off while the guy was explaining how the UI works.

 

[RetroTechie]

For me, any light to consider would have to pass the "noob test":

There must be a button on the light for which:

• With light off, pressing it makes the light go on.
• With light on, pressing it makes the light go off.

In other words, when you hand the light to someone who doesn't know sh** about the light (or multi-mode flashlights in general), no explanation should be needed for basic use. Amazing even some high-priced lights fail this test. :shakehead

A soft lockout feature is okay if a single longer press is enough to unlock, but that's about it. Options beside that are acceptable, as long as they don't get in the way. A multi-mode light should come on in a lower mode first, or (in the case of mode memory) in the last used mode. Flashy modes are simply annoying and don't add any value - more likely the opposite.

For example the programmable Predator Pro v2.5 has a very complex UI, but passes this test because the tail switch does a simple on/off in the last used mode. But a simple 3-mode light with next-mode memory (annoying! ) fails this test if mode cycle is L > H > SOS.

Any light that doesn't pass the above will have a veeeeerrrry hard time to convince me into buying it. Or make me recommend to friends/family. So manufacturers: take note.

 

[markr6]

For me, any light to consider would have to pass the "noob test":

I personally don't mind a "non-noob" UI like the Zebralight, but for a noob it needs to be quite simple.

This past weekend I was hanging out at the lake and my in-laws thought about taking the canoe out at night. They didn't have a flashlight so one of them jokingly said "ask Mr. Flashlight". I laughed, but secretly thought "oh no, what would they be able to use and what would I be willing to lend them??" I had the following:

Zebralight SC62w
Zebralight SC600w
Zebralight H600w
Eagletac S200C2
Convoy custom XP-L 1400 lumen w/ 24 programmable modes

The S200C2 would have been the only one I would trust them to understand, but a thrower didn't make much sense.

I guess that's a good lesson to carry something simple to lend out.

 

[RetroTechie]

ZL would pass this "noob test", right? From off, short click -> on (okay, in high mode but most people would be fine with that ). Another short click -> off.

Or is this aspect of the UI different for other ZL's? :thinking:

 

[twistedraven]

You coulda just programmed the high mode of the Zebralight to a lower lumen level so they could use it for a long period of time. One click on, and one click off.

 

[Beckler]

Regarding the Zebralight talk, am I correct in that every single one of their models has the same UI? If so, this is a big competitive advantage IMO. But also since they're already somewhat programmable, why not add a 'simple mode' which when activated has maybe 2 or 3 states and that's it? Just make it impossible to get into accidentally, and there's no reason not to have such a feature.

 

[markr6]

^ I thought about all this, but not for a noob. They would end up turning it on, and turning it off too quick at one point...effectively double clicking. Or some weird combination. Who knows...strobe, re-programmed

It sounds simple, but I know they would have trouble with it.