Using Li-ion cells in LED flashlights safely

[TSellers]

if i think only in pack of 10, shipping charge will be high

Yes, that is the problem for US based suppliers, USPS Shipping charges are high for them, which places them at a disadvantage compared to Chinese sellers for sending products to foreign clients.

 

[marc.collin]

Yes, that is the problem for US based suppliers, USPS Shipping charges are high for them, which places them at a disadvantage compared to Chinese sellers for sending products to foreign clients.

a good 18650 at 3400mAh it's easy 10$ without tax and shipping in canada

 

[NoNotAgain]

Do you have any vape shops in Canada? If so you should take a look at them for a source for batteries.

Per the changes to USPS shipping regulations, you can't ship more than 8 cells in a package.

Do you have any plans to visit the US in your future? If so, just wait until you get here and make your purchase here. Bring your lights empty so that you can fill them up with batteries for the return trip.

The supplier I recently used has a vape shop. I purchased another 12 batteries from him after the new rules took effect. I called him up to let his know that the new shipping rules no longer allowed for large shipments (over 8 cells) in USPS mail. He thanked me, and raised the price on new purchases to cover the increased postage costs.

It's going to get rough getting batteries at the old prices with the shipping changes.

 

[marc.collin]

so the only way to get big quantity of 18650 will be by boat.

 

[fadetoblack73]

I own 2 PowerTac Warrior "Reloaded" model lights. They work absolutely wonderfully. The reason that I chose the lights is that their storage cradle also re-charges the lights. This is the difference between the "Reloaded" model and the standard Warrior model. I love the fact that as long as you return the light to its proper place after using, you know it is going to be charged for the next use. But after reading this thread, I am now concerned. The charger is, supposedly, protected against over-current and over-heating. It is also supposed to automatically NOT try to charge primary CR123 batteries if they are accidentally left in the light. But, this thread has me worried that all of these built-in protections are not good enough. Surely a company would not design a product that would be potentially dangerous even when used as designed. Imagine the lawsuits if this thing weren't tested.

Can someone offer an opinion one way or another?

 

[loquutis79]

Marc.collen, have you tried Keenbeam? He is located in the Ottawa Valley and sells Eagletac brand 18650's. Very good batteries. Also there is Mackoutdoors in B.C. I believe. He has AW's as well as Eagletac I think. Both are good guys to deal with. And then a few blocks from me here in the Toronto area is a guy who sells Fenix. He sells Fenix brand 18650's only. I like the lights but I prefer the Eagletac cells better. But he might be the better bet for a quantity price break. Not so sure about the first two places.
Anyway, Google the names, you will find them. For the Fenix guy google "Fenix Tactical"

 

[hrbngr]

Checking in here, any recommended current Amazon/ebay sellers of Button-Top Panasonic 18650B 3400s currently? Also, per this thread and others, the Pila IBC batter charger was reputed to be a great charger, but I can't seem to find it for sale currently, so was wondering what is the go-to safest charger right now? Xtar?

 

[thedoc007]

Checking in here, any recommended current Amazon/ebay sellers of Button-Top Panasonic 18650B 3400s currently? Also, per this thread and others, the Pila IBC batter charger was reputed to be a great charger, but I can't seem to find it for sale currently, so was wondering what is the go-to safest charger right now? Xtar?

I wouldn't personally recommend you buy 18650s from Amazon. Not because they are more likely to be fake, but because they are simply more expensive. Even when you take shipping into account, you will pay more on Amazon for good cells.

I'd recommend Mountain Electronics or Illumination Supply in the USA. They have tons of options for cells, they don't sell junk, they have a presence on CPF, they have good customer service and fast shipping, and they are cheaper. What's not to like?

Pretty much any quality charger is safe enough. They aren't that complex, and if you charge when you are around, nothing to worry about even in the worst case. The Xtar VP2 and Nitecore D4 are my current favorites. VP2 is better if you have only a few cells, and only li-ion. The D4 does lithium-ion and NIMH, and has a couple extra bays. Both are simple to use, have good charge algorithms, digital readouts so you can keep track of progress, and multiple charging options.

 

[HighZenBurg]

Wow! Thank you!!
I just read this thread from start to finish and it answered most of my questions regarding Liion battery safety. It's a 6 year evolution to this point, and interesting to see how the battery options and their protection has evolved. I like to think that today's Liion batteries are very much safer than when this thread began.

I'm very new to all this stuff, and a first time poster on CPF. I'm about to impart on a long camping/road trip and needed a couple flashlights, so I wanted to find some great options and not break the bank. After some research I went on a pretty serious flashlight bender, I think I've made some good decisions. Please let me know what you think.

This is what I've bought in the last few days:

Nitecore mh12 - with 18650 3400 mAh (like P12 but has usb charger built in)
xtar vp2 charger
Orbitron 18650 - 3400 mAh protected and designed for flashlights. (4 pack)
Solarforce - L series torches in various formats with different drop-ins (3x)

I hope these batteries work with the Solarforce torches. I need to do more research to make sure these have protected circuits built in to protect from over discharging.

Should I only use the Nitecore battery with the nitecore mh12, or is it just fine to use Orbitron? I would imagine it's best to use all nitecore circuitry, but again I'm a Noob!

Thank you everyone. My OCD had new fuel. 👻

 

[thburns]

I wouldn't personally recommend you buy 18650s from Amazon. Not because they are more likely to be fake, but because they are simply more expensive. Even when you take shipping into account, you will pay more on Amazon for good cells.

I'd recommend Mountain Electronics or Illumination Supply in the USA. They have tons of options for cells, they don't sell junk, they have a presence on CPF, they have good customer service and fast shipping, and they are cheaper. What's not to like?

Pretty much any quality charger is safe enough. They aren't that complex, and if you charge when you are around, nothing to worry about even in the worst case. The Xtar VP2 and Nitecore D4 are my current favorites. VP2 is better if you have only a few cells, and only li-ion. The D4 does lithium-ion and NIMH, and has a couple extra bays. Both are simple to use, have good charge algorithms, digital readouts so you can keep track of progress, and multiple charging options.

I really wish I would have read the rest of this thread before I bought the batteries for the ZebraLight SC62W and the Nitecore MH-20 that I have coming this week! The MH-20 I bought in a bundle that comes with an NL-189, and I figured I'd want a spare for each light so I got a charger bundle with a D2 and two NL189s, and another charger bundle with a UM10 and a single NL189. Then I saw somewhere that the NL-189s might be too large for the SC62W so I bought two ZL634s from ZebraLight

Sounds like I should have just bought the chargers by themselves and four Panasonic 18650Bs :mecry:

 

[recDNA]

I have about 4 AW Imr batteries and 6 AW protected ICR batteries. They are all different sizes and all purchased in 2010. (I actually have 4 more purchased this year but no questions about them.)

All of these 5 year old batteries charge on my Pila charger or Xtar charger without issue. All charge to act least 4.11 volts. Most to 4.15 volts. My Pila never charges any battery above 4.18 volts.

Their age concerns me even though they work fine. Are they still safe to use or should I recycle them? Thanks!

 

[SilverFox]

Hello recDNA,

If they were mine I would continue to use them.

Tom

 

[lunas]

Just did a check on my stored cells I have 3 trustfire 14500 and 3 ultrafire 2x 14500 1x 18650cells still need to check the 18650 size ultrafire but one of the 2 14500 ultrafires has self discharged to 1.75v well time to chuck the trustfires all seem to hold the charge better but I have already thrown 1 away as it dropped suddenly to 0v by itself.

In 30 mins off the charger the 14500 ultra fire was at 4.12v I a bit ill check again if it under 4v ill just chuck it. Even though I should chuck all 6 of them.

 

[xzel87]

Have a very quick question on batteries...

So I recently got myself the BLF Special Edition A6, which is able to draw up to 5A and more...Needless to say, it gets hot really fast. The question is, as the body of the light heats up, so does the cell inside the battery tube. When I take out the battery right after it is rather warm. Is this of any danger whatsoever?

The cell I'm using in this case is a Samsung 25r.

 

[lunas]

Yes you need to make sure to use high quality cells that can handle that draw they are getting hot due to the draw too hot they out gas and vent.

 

[thedoc007]

So I recently got myself the BLF Special Edition A6, which is able to draw up to 5A and more...Needless to say, it gets hot really fast. The question is, as the body of the light heats up, so does the cell inside the battery tube. When I take out the battery right after it is rather warm. Is this of any danger whatsoever?

The cell I'm using in this case is a Samsung 25r.

Cells getting too hot can be an issue in extreme circumstances. But your setup is fine...that is a good cell, and the right fit for that light. IMR/INR cells are definitely safer for high-draw and/or high heat applications. Absolutely no problem for you.

 

[xzel87]

Yes you need to make sure to use high quality cells that can handle that draw they are getting hot due to the draw too hot they out gas and vent.

Cells getting too hot can be an issue in extreme circumstances. But your setup is fine...that is a good cell, and the right fit for that light. IMR/INR cells are definitely safer for high-draw and/or high heat applications. Absolutely no problem for you.

Thanks for the input people...the battery just gets warm, not to the level of being too hot to hold. The flashlight body however, if left tailstanding for 10 minutes (I use it ceiling bounce on max to illuminate a group photo) it does get unbearably hot to hold initially. I guess that's not such a bad thing as it would mean heat is being dissipated from the head throughout the body?

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Awesome info in this thread! Thanks a million!!!!

 

[oriels]

thank you that very help me.
but i got a question - you said that i need to watch my battery every 15 minutes max and that not overreacting. but what about when people are put theirs phone in charge all night ? and sleep with it next to theirs head?

 

[thedoc007]

thank you that very help me.
but i got a question - you said that i need to watch my battery every 15 minutes max and that not overreacting. but what about when people are put theirs phone in charge all night ? and sleep with it next to theirs head?

One difference is that a phone is a fully integrated system. with advanced charging and (hopefully) fail-safes in case something goes wrong. Every component, battery, electronics, cables, charger, etc., are each individually and collectively tested by the manufacturer in the development phase to make sure everything is compatible. Even then sometimes unforeseen problems occur, but hopefully not very often. YOU are the systems integrator for your lights...you are solely responsible for picking out a good charger, good cells, and using everything properly.

That said, I think there is a LOT of paranoia out there regarding charging. Watching it continuously is unnecessary, and checking it every fifteen minutes doesn't in ANY way guarantee safety either. I don't charge if I am not going to be around...for the same reason I don't leave the stove on when I am out. Anything can happen. But if you really are so worried about it that you cannot leave a cell charging for more than fifteen minutes without attention, I think this is very much the wrong hobby for you.