Tesla's gigafactory dropping 18650's and going with 20700 - per Elon Musk

[101010110011]

Funny. They are going to produce batteries that are useless to us.

What do you mean by that?

 

[101010110011]

Why are they going for cylindrical cells, would hexagonal cells pack more in the same space, or do they need a slight gap for cooling?

John.

From the tesla battery packs I've seen, they run glycol between the cells. I think your right its needed for cooling.

 

[vadimax]

What do you mean by that?

You cannot stuff 20 or 21 mm battery into a 18 mm flashlight body

 

[SubLGT]

You cannot stuff 20 or 21 mm battery into a 18 mm flashlight body

It is just as easy to manufacture a 20mm or 21mmm battery tube as it is to manufacture a 18mm tube.

 

[SubLGT]

…….Tesla opened its Gigafactory... to the surprising, if casual, announcement by Elon Musk that the Gigafactory will be three times the original 50GWh planned capacity……

…...The real concern now is whether there will be enough raw material to fuel not only a 150GWh Gigafactory but also the major growth that is being seen in China where at least 7 lithium ion megafactories are being built.

…….The answer is no.

http://benchmarkminerals.com/Blog/tesla-faces-raw-material-reality-with-expanded-gigafactory/

 

[vadimax]

I am not sure about source reliability, but one of TFLCars interviews mentioned 100 mm long batteries:

 

[Overclocker]

who wants another size

 

[Overclocker]

.......................... d/p

 

[carl]

It is just as easy to manufacture a 20mm or 21mmm battery tube as it is to manufacture a 18mm tube.

I hope flashlight makers keep their battery tubes as close as possible to 1 inch outer diameter to maintain compatibility with standard 1 inch mounting devices (even if the threaded tailcap area needs to be bigger).

 

[carl]

The 20650 is an oddball size.

Its going to be either 20700 or 21700.

 

[fivemega]

The 20650 is an oddball size.

Its going to be either 20700 or 21700.

Most protected 18650 cells have diameter of close to 19mm and length of 68~69mm so 20650 will be 21x70mm (size of 21700).

 

[carl]

You're probably right.

Standard bare cell unprotected: 20650

Hi-capacity with protection circuit: 21700

Actually, the Tesla Gigafactory is probably going to produce a standard bare cell using the 21700 dimensions or something very close to it. Others will come along and repackage it with their own thick wrapper and a protection circuit which will result in an even bigger overall cell but the capacity will remain unchanged.

With the greater potential for advancements with this new battery, I guess this means 'buh-bye' to the 26650, at least for flashlights.

 

[carl]

In stock already?

http://www.illumn.com/20700-sanyo-ncr20700b-high-discharge-flat-top.html

20700 Sanyo NCR20700B High Discharge Flat Top

SKU:Sanyo NCR20700B

Availability: In Stock

$9.99

PRODUCT DETAILS

SANYO NCR20700B 4250 mAh High Discharge Flat Top

Specifications:
Nominal Capacity: 4000 mAh
Typical Capacity: 4250mAh
Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Standard Charging Current: 2A
Discharge End Voltage: 2.5V
Max Continuous Discharging Current: 12A
Weight (max): 63.0g

Dimensions:
70.3mm (L) x 20.35 mm (D)


With these kinds of performance numbers above, and at this early stage of development, with a little more development this cell is going to supercede the performance of a 26650 in the near future!

 

[SubLGT]

Who will be the first to manufacture a flashlight that accepts the Sanyo 20700 (without using an adapter)? Nitecore? Armytek? Zebralight? Fenix?

 

[Enderman]

I am not sure about source reliability, but one of TFLCars interviews mentioned 100 mm long batteries:

40152 is also one of the most popular for electric vehicles

 

[stephenk]

With the possibility of protected and unprotected versions of 20650, 20700, and 21700, expect the "these cells don't fit in my light" problems to get worse.

 

[SubLGT]

I wonder if Samsung will be using a 21700 cell in an automotive application?

Samsung SDI and luxury EV startup Lucid Motors have entered a strategic partnership for battery cell supply. Samsung SDI will be a major supplier of lithium-ion cells for Lucid's first vehicle, an electric executive sedan scheduled to begin production in late 2018.

Samsung SDI and Lucid have collaborated to develop next-generation cylindrical cells that are able to exceed current performance benchmarks in areas such as energy density, power, calendar life and safety. Significantly, this jointly developed cell also achieves breakthrough tolerance to repeated fast charging.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12/20161206-lucdi.html

 

[SubLGT]

The 21700 format seems to be gaining some traction.

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/...y-innovations-presented-at-eurobike-10127504#

BMZ, which is Europe's biggest battery supplier not only for e-bikes but also for tools, household and gardening appliances, announced its 'true quantum leap' in e-bike battery technology in Friedrichshafen…………………..

Europe's biggest battery supplier says, "With 3Tron, BMZ is putting its trust in a completely new format: instead of a 18650 (18mm diameter and 65mm high) cell size, 3Tron will be produced as a size 21700 cell (21mm diameter and 70mm high)…………….

...it is clear that other manufacturers will follow and produce 21700 format batteries as well: the development possibilities of the 18650 cell format are exhausted."……………...

 

[StandardBattery]

Who will be the first to manufacture a flashlight that accepts the Sanyo 20700 (without using an adapter)? Nitecore? Armytek? Zebralight? Fenix?

I'm hoping it's ZebraLight. Got a few of these batteries, but have not tested them yet.

 

[SubLGT]

More about the BMZ battery pack using 21700 cells:

BMZ's new 3Tron battery with cells in the 21700 format sets new standards in terms of capacity and discharge current…………...Sven Bauer, Managing Director of BMZ GmbH in Karlstein am Main is enthusiastic about the new cell: "Its usable battery capacity is several times that of conventional cells in the 18650 format: you have 60 percent more capacity while being able to use 400% more discharge current at the same time."……...In producing the super cell, BMZ cooperates with the world's leading cell manufacturer Sony. Its manufacturing expertise with more than 300 million cells annually guarantees top quality. The assembly of the 3Tron batteries will take place at BMZ - Europe's new gigafactory. With a footprint of 55,000 m2, it is Europe's largest battery factory…..

http://www.bmz-group.com/dokumente/...BMZ_PM_Tritrion_Kapazitaet_-21_09_2016_EN.pdf


So, this Sony/BMZ 21700 cell has 60% more capacity and 400% more discharge current than a 18650 cell. Sounds like a big upgrade to me.