The Official Zebralight Thread .

[markr6]

I pulled all the 18650s I had in flashlights today just to do a discharge-test on the Opus 3100. I definitely noticed the crushed tops from the Zebralights (NCR18650GA). I don't think it's a safety concern at this point, just a little annoying.

 

[meti]

I pulled all the 18650s I had in flashlights today just to do a discharge-test on the Opus 3100. I definitely noticed the crushed tops from the Zebralights (NCR18650GA). I don't think it's a safety concern at this point, just a little annoying.

Sadly that's why I stopped using my SC600... two crushed battery is enough for me, I keep it in my collection but won't use it anymore.

 

[terjee]

Quick note in crushing... some batteries seem more prone to this than others. Could be worthwhile to try a different type (as long or shorter)? And was the NCR18650GA batteries of the flat-top type, or button top? (They're sold with and without button top IIRC).

 

[vadimax]

Sony VTC6 is 64.9 mm long.

 

[Cobraman502]

Anyone know if the olight s1a tail cap fits the Zebralight sc52w?

 

[vadimax]

BTW, I cannot understand Zebralight's engineers. Was it life or death importance to make the SC600 Mk III so short that nearly all unprotected batteries happen to be too long for that light?! Just 2 mm longer and the issue would be nonexistent.

 

[noboneshotdog]

BTW, I cannot understand Zebralight's engineers. Was it life or death importance to make the SC600 Mk III so short that nearly all unprotected batteries happen to be too long for that light?! Just 2 mm longer and the issue would be nonexistent.

Agree, it was compact enough personally. If you REALLY needed to go any smaller go 14500. Just an opinion. I actually like the light to fill my hand.

 

[terjee]

BTW, I cannot understand Zebralight's engineers. Was it life or death importance to make the SC600 Mk III so short that nearly all unprotected batteries happen to be too long for that light?! Just 2 mm longer and the issue would be nonexistent.

A lot of (most of?) the protected batteries are arguably unsuitable. The light can pull something like 8A at full throttle, which the protected batteries are often not happy with, and it might trigger the protection circuits.

 

[emarkd]

Yeah all this battery stuff was hashed out months ago, over and over again. They probably made it extra-short so protected cells wouldn't fit, because the light needs more current than they really want to give. Also Zebra wanted to use pogo pins instead of springs for that same reason - more current carrying capacity. And since pogo pins have a much shorter range of "adjustment" for the fit, the size of the cell becomes very particular. These weren't just pointless design decisions, they're relevant to the performance of the light.

And as far as Zebra's lights not "filling your hand", well yeah, that's what they do. Zebra makes small lights. Lots of other people make big lights, if that's what you want.

 

[vadimax]

A lot of (most of?) the protected batteries are arguably unsuitable. The light can pull something like 8A at full throttle, which the protected batteries are often not happy with, and it might trigger the protection circuits.

Sorry? Have you read my post? Where have you found the word "protected"? The stupidity of the issue is that most unprotected flat top cells are being crushed if you close the tail cap tight.

In the SC600 Mk III specification we read: "Battery: One 18650 size (i.e. unprotected, 65.0-65.2 mm long) 3.6-4.35V li-ion rechargeable". In the Sanyo NCR18650GA specification: "Dimensions: 18.43mm x 65.05mm". In the post #701: "I definitely noticed the crushed tops from the Zebralights (NCR18650GA).".

What?!

 

[noboneshotdog]

Yeah all this battery stuff was hashed out months ago, over and over again. They probably made it extra-short so protected cells wouldn't fit, because the light needs more current than they really want to give. Also Zebra wanted to use pogo pins instead of springs for that same reason - more current carrying capacity. And since pogo pins have a much shorter range of "adjustment" for the fit, the size of the cell becomes very particular. These weren't just pointless design decisions, they're relevant to the performance of the light.

And as far as Zebra's lights not "filling your hand", well yeah, that's what they do. Zebra makes small lights. Lots of other people make big lights, if that's what you want.

It just seems that Zebralight feels they have to make every new rendition of thier SC600 series brighter and smaller. I personally think the SC600 MKII was the perfect size. Smaller doesn't equate to better for me ZL.

I appreciate ZL's small form, but a little bit of mass is nice too.

I have owned most SC600 iterations, just prefer MKII best.

 

[terjee]

Sorry? Have you read my post? Where have you found the word "protected"? The stupidity of the issue is that most unprotected flat top cells are being crushed if you close the tail cap tight.

CPF is friendly >90% of the time, let's try to keep it that way? Responses like that are just begging for "Oh, you're one of those, let me get my spoon...", and then it just goes downhill from there. I get that you probably meant no harm, and I hope that's mutual.

As to the point; you said you couldn't understand their engineers. I simply offered a possible explanation, that it could have been a goal for them to avoid the lights being used with protected batteries. While you spoke of unprotected batteries, I chose to reference protected because they're tied in with the possible explanation I was trying to offer.

Would it have been better if it was 2mm longer? Quite possibly, but also besides the point I was getting at, namely explaining a possible motivation for the choice.

I do see I answered fairly short, and could probably have been more clear. Sorry for that.

 

[Connor]

BTW, I cannot understand Zebralight's engineers. Was it life or death importance to make the SC600 Mk III so short that nearly all unprotected batteries happen to be too long for that light?! Just 2 mm longer and the issue would be nonexistent.

65.0-65.2 mm is exactly what a 18650 flattop cell is supposed to measure by the industry standards (and high quality cells like the Panasonic NCR18650GA or LG IMR18650MJ1 are exactly that length and fit fine).

 

[emarkd]

It just seems that Zebralight feels they have to make every new rendition of thier SC600 series brighter and smaller. I personally think the SC600 MKII was the perfect size. Smaller doesn't equate to better for me ZL.

I appreciate ZL's small form, but a little bit of mass is nice too.

I have owned most SC600 iterations, just prefer MKII best.

Yeah I don't really disagree with you. I'd still be interested in a mk4 light even if it wasn't smaller than the mk3. And in fact I'm not sure how they'd get it any smaller anyway. And FWIW, I've had all three iterations too, still have them, and I also liked the mk2 best. Its a great light to hold and use.

 

[terjee]

Would be interesting to get a couple of you guys in touch with the design team at Zebralight. Anyone tried to reach out to them to suggest it?

 

[vadimax]

CPF is friendly >90% of the time, let's try to keep it that way? Responses like that are just begging for "Oh, you're one of those, let me get my spoon...", and then it just goes downhill from there. I get that you probably meant no harm, and I hope that's mutual.

As to the point; you said you couldn't understand their engineers. I simply offered a possible explanation, that it could have been a goal for them to avoid the lights being used with protected batteries. While you spoke of unprotected batteries, I chose to reference protected because they're tied in with the possible explanation I was trying to offer.

Would it have been better if it was 2mm longer? Quite possibly, but also besides the point I was getting at, namely explaining a possible motivation for the choice.

I do see I answered fairly short, and could probably have been more clear. Sorry for that.

Out of a wild guess I think Zebralight missed one obvious mass production issue: tolerances are too tight to be massively reproduced. So they issue lights that even the shortest unprotected cells do not fit (that are mass produced as well and suffer length deviations as well). This way we've got a good in all other respects light that requires to... hand pick a fitting cell?

Now which phrase describes it best:

a) the best is the enemy of the good enough?
b) too much of a good thing is good for nothing?
c) let well enough alone?

 

[noboneshotdog]

Yeah I don't really disagree with you. I'd still be interested in a mk4 light even if it wasn't smaller than the mk3. And in fact I'm not sure how they'd get it any smaller anyway. And FWIW, I've had all three iterations too, still have them, and I also liked the mk2 best. Its a great light to hold and use.

I would buy a MKIIII in a heartbeat. Especially with the new UI. :thumbsup:

 

[vadimax]

I would buy a MKIIII in a heartbeat. Especially with the new UI. :thumbsup:

Well, having a SC5c I discovered no need in those G6 and G7.

 

[terjee]

Out of a wild guess I think Zebralight missed one obvious mass production issue: tolerances are too tight to be massively reproduced. So they issue lights that even the shortest unprotected cells do not fit (that are mass produced as well and suffer length deviations as well). This way we've got a good in all other respects light that requires to... hand pick a fitting cell?

Yeah, definitively agree that tolerances is an issue, no question about it. Both with the light itself. Including the pogo pins specifically, but also minor details like the tension of the springs in the pins. Also tolerances with the batteries.

Even if they get every single dimension spot on, there's still the issue of how hard it would push against the cell, and how much pressure the cell will tolerate. That is, not just tolerances on dimensions, but pliability of the cell.

Vaping community (which also relies heavily on 18650s) has had similar issues. I seem to recall people having an impression that some cells are more affected than others, but I don't know if there's a good reason for that, other than those cells being more typically used.

Have an SC600w Mk III on the way, which I assume is "at risk". I'll investigate a bit when it arrives.

Would interesting to see if there's at least a battery type that would be suitable, without having to pick individual cells.

 

[dmsoule]

I love my SC600 mk3, and I'm glad they shrunk it down - no wasted space, a marvel of engineering. My LG hg2, Samsung 30q, and Panasonic NCR18650GA cells all fit perfectly, no issues. Just my two cents.