123 Battery Shoot Out

[Mr Happy]

The CR123A is the regular, disposable, use once kind of battery.

The R-CR123A is a rechargeable battery of the same physical size as a CR123A, but not necessarily a compatible voltage. This cell is sometimes described as a 16340 to emphasize the difference from the non-rechargeable CR123A.

There is no such battery as a C123A. If you see that anywhere it is a mistake.

 

[yard candle]

Thank you Mr Happy. Pardon me if I feel like I've fallen to earth from outer space. I come from a place where designators mean things. LOL

I now see that the CR123A marked 3.6V or higher are rechargeable.(yes or no?) Yet Matt with says with rare exception some 3.6 or highers are the primary (non-rechargeable). However those marked Li-ion are definitely (secondary) rechargeable..
From all this i must go back up to my spaceship and explain all the confusion down here on earth. What would you have me tell them?
I still see that there are CR123A listed as 3V. I'm betting these 3v wont work in my ITP flash light. To me one seems simply not compatible with the other.

It also seems to me that when someone gets the urge to call one of the CR123A s a "16430" it must be 3.7 volts exclusively and is rechargeable, right?

Thank you for taking this problem on for me.

Regards

 

[Black Rose]

The ITP A1 will work with the 3 volt version, and will likely work better actually.

Using RCR123/16340 cells in a light that small will generate a lot of heat if you use it on high mode a lot due to it's small size, which makes it hard to dissipate heat.

CR123A - 3 volt primary - not rechargeable
RCR123/16340 - 3.7v nominal (empty) - 4.2v (fully charged) rechargeable - not compatible with all CR123A capable devices due to extra voltage.

 

[Notsure Fire]

I didn't know the ITP can handle the 3volt

 

[vali]

If they can't handle them what would be the point of those lights?

A1 -> CR123A
A2 -> AA
A3 -> AAA

The pill seems to work fine with more voltage like the one you get with li-ion, but the light generates too much heat, so they are not officially supported.

 

[yard candle]

Thank you Mr. Happy, Black Rose and vali. You too Matt.

I'm learning thanks to you and so is Notsure Fire.

A1 = CR123A (Primary) non-rechargeable 3volt and on rare occasions is a 3.7volt.

A1 also means RCR123A (secondary) rechargeable 3.7 to 4.1volt Li-ion.

A1 also means 16430 (secondary) rechargeable 3.7 full 4.1 volt Li-ion.


All rechargeable batteries designated as above are Li-ion type and require regulated Li-ion chargers matched to specific batteries ampere/hour capacities.

This is not presented as fact so, guys, jump in here anywhere to correct
Regards
yard candle.
PS anything that says C123A is a miss print .

 

[Mr Happy]

OK, let's try to make this clear.

A1 = CR123A (Primary) non-rechargeable 3volt

Yes. CR123A means a non-rechargeable lithium primary cell nominally 3 volts. The historical use was for cameras and photography, but the cell got repurposed for flashlight use due to its small size and high power output.

and on rare occasions is a 3.7volt.

No, the rare occasions are 3.6 V lithium thionyl chloride, but these are very specialized, very expensive, and not found in consumer markets. You will not come across one, and if you do it will not be called a CR123A.

A1 also means RCR123A (secondary) rechargeable 3.7 to 4.1volt Li-ion.

No. CR123A never means rechargeable unless someone has mislabeled it. CR123A always means single use disposable. If it is rechargeable it should be labeled R-CR123A or R-CR123 or RCR123 or something similar. Note the initial R for rechargeable.

A1 also means 16430 (secondary) rechargeable 3.7 full 4.1 volt Li-ion.

No again. CR123A always means single use disposable primary lithium cell.

If you see a cell labeled 16340 (not 16430), you can be quite certain it is not a CR123A. In flashlight circles it will always be a lithium ion rechargeable cell with a nominal voltage of 3.0 V or 3.6 V. If you stray into places outside the flashlight world it might be a special kind of primary cell but it will then have a label that makes abundantly clear what it is.

All rechargeable batteries designated as above are Li-ion type and require regulated Li-ion chargers matched to specific batteries ampere/hour capacities.

...and also matched to the specific type. Otherwise, yes.

PS anything that says C123A is a miss print .

Yes.

Note that all this confusion only arises because you have strayed into a world of hobbyists with special interests. You will not find anything labeled 16340 in a regular consumer outlet.

 

[yard candle]

Thank you Mr. Happy
Well it looks like if you go poking around in a shoot out you are liable to get shot. Looks like that's just what happened to me here. None the less I hope this help all. I know it has me.


I like the idea of using the higher voltage li-ions as my first battery because I want to see how much The iTP A1 light is capable of. Even if its but for short runs. The 3 settings will allow me to use the lower setting for longer runs.
I just don't know how to shop for the proper charger for the R-CR123 or the 16340 combinations. I guess the light will be here and now I'll have to wait on a decent li-ion battery and charger.
sales link removed

 

[Mr Happy]

Thank you Mr. Happy
Well it looks like if you go poking around in a shoot out you are liable to get shot. Looks like that's just what happened to me here. None the less I hope this help all. I know it has me.

Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot you, just to clarify.

In closing, let me quote from the very first post in the thread:

Here is another series of tests, this time looking at Lithium CR123 primary cells. These are not rechargeable.

 

[yard candle]

Who ever heard of anyone getting shot in a shoot out? That was my little play for humor.
The thread here and you were quite tolerant to allow me to circumvent the main point here too. So thanks for your final clarification.
Regards

PS Mr Happy, might you please translate;
"Tiefer, tiefer, irgendwo in der Tiefe gibt es ein Licht "

 

[Mr Happy]

PS Mr Happy, might you please translate;
"Tiefer, tiefer, irgendwo in der Tiefe gibt es ein Licht "

Yes, I might. It means something like "Deeper, deeper, somewhere in the depth there is a light".

You can hear it spoken here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S0zNFzK_ns#t=5m20s

 

[yard candle]

Mr. Happy;
The Deeper and deeper was hard to understand from the song.

 

[Notsure Fire]

Sounds deep

 

[cohutec]

@SilverFox :bow:

I have read several of your battery shoot outs, and I have a specific shoot out that I would like to ask your assistance with, either in guidance so that I may perform the test, or if I may send you many batteries and many thanks if the equipment needed is very expensive.

I need to compare an alkaline AA, lithium AA, and a CR123A at 50mA
The alkaline AA is merely for contrast.

My real world application is an arduino pro mini driving a 30mA LED for 6 hours a day. (research project)

I need this system to operate for 6-8 weeks without a battery change.

I was thinking 2xCR123A's in parallel with a buck/boost converter to get me in the 5V range.
Like the "MintyBoost" :: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/

Or two lithium AA in series to get the 3V...
or 4 AA in series to get 6V and step down to 5V...
or 4 AA (2 parallel pair in series) to double capacity at 3V?

I'm spinning as battery efficiency is rather new research topic for me.

Thanks in advance to anyone who would like to assist me in finding the best battery combo for my project!

 

[Mr Happy]

@SilverFox :bow:

I have read several of your battery shoot outs, and I have a specific shoot out that I would like to ask your assistance with, either in guidance so that I may perform the test, or if I may send you many batteries and many thanks if the equipment needed is very expensive.

I need to compare an alkaline AA, lithium AA, and a CR123A at 50mA
The alkaline AA is merely for contrast.

My real world application is an arduino pro mini driving a 30mA LED for 6 hours a day. (research project)

I need this system to operate for 6-8 weeks without a battery change.

I was thinking 2xCR123A's in parallel with a buck/boost converter to get me in the 5V range.
Like the "MintyBoost" :: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/

Or two lithium AA in series to get the 3V...
or 4 AA in series to get 6V and step down to 5V...
or 4 AA (2 parallel pair in series) to double capacity at 3V?

I'm spinning as battery efficiency is rather new research topic for me.

Thanks in advance to anyone who would like to assist me in finding the best battery combo for my project!

This question is unique enough that I'm going to suggest you could have started a new thread with it under its own subject heading. Maybe a moderator will move it for you...

Anyway the starting point to answering your question is to look at battery data sheets. For example, to provide 30 mA for 6 hours a day for 8 weeks adds up to 30 mA x 6 (h/day) x 7 (day/week) x 8 (weeks) = 10,000 mAh. Now an Energizer L91 data sheet is here: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

From looking at the milliamp-hours capacity chart in the data sheet, we see that an L91 contains about 3000 mAh. That means that to run your light, you will likely need four cells in parallel to get the mAh above 10,000 (4 x 3000 = 12,000), and then enough of those in series to get the voltage high enough. So you will likely need 12 cells in a four parallel, three series arrangement to do what you need. This is simplifying a lot of detail, but we only need a back of the envelope calculation to get a rough idea of the requirements.

You can use a similar estimation technique using the data sheet for a CR123A cell. Most likely you would need a few of those as well to get your 6-8 week run time.

 

[ToddI]

Hello Steve,

They are also cropping up in home defibrilator units.

Tom

I know this post is years old, but I am amazed at the wealth of good data and information you have provided in this and other posts I have seen. I'm currently looking at an application where I have a high-power (30W) processor that needs to survive in harsh (desert) environments and run on either CR123 or AA batteries. I think lithium is preferred for its ability to maintain a high voltage over the course of its life, and its long-life characteristics. In this shootout I see that the CR123 heats up significantly at a 1A drain. Is the same true for AA batteries? It basically boils down to me using 10 CR123 batteries at 1A drain, or 16 AA batteries at 1.5A drain - the latter eating up more space and weighing more, which is a big concern for our troops - but thermal is obviously a concern.

Do you have a recommendation? (I haven't come across a AA lithium battery shootout from you, but would look forward to seeing one!)

Thanks,
Todd

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Todd,

Welcome to CPF.

Quality CR123 cells will handle a 1 amp drain without problems. If you stay away from any "off brands" or working with the cheapest priced cell you should have good results.

Also keep in mind that these tests were done at a continuous drain. Many applications involve multiple shorter duration runs. If the cell has a break during the discharge, the temperature drops.

In general, a CR123 cell is designed to properly operate at current rates up to those that drain the cell in 1 hour. This would work out to 1.4 - 1.5 amps. Since your load is 1.0 amps you should be good to go. Some applications drain the cell in 10 minutes. That is where you run into excessive heat and other problems.

Tom

 

[4sevens]

silverfox - what happened to the 4sevens graphs?

 

[Glock 22]

I've been using Surefire CR123a's in my M31 set up. I've only tried some of the LifePO4's in it besides my Surefire ones. Which CR123a would give me the most output and longer burntime. I know it's probably a dumb question to ask but I'm not an expert when it comes to batteries. So this thread looks like I can get the best answer. Awesome graphs!

 

[SilverFox]

Hello David,

I don't believe I did any testing with 4sevens cells...

Tom