Any stories of using STROBE as a Self-Defense Weapon?

[Stream]

I've seen seasoned cops forget how to use their radio when shtf. KISS wasn't coined because it's cool. The more training and real life experience people have the more they realize simple saves lives. Also knowing when to fight or flee but that's an entirely different sub forum.

In the absolute few real high stress situations I ever found myself in all I remember is that horrible tunnel vision and focusing on exactly what was happening in front of me. Everything else luckily happened through muscle memory. The less steps your muscle memory takes you the higher your chance of successfully completing them.

We are humans. We are limited beings.

This is also why complex martial arts like Karate are mostly useless in real fights, and skills like boxing and wrestling are more effective.

 

[xzel87]

This is also why complex martial arts like Karate are mostly useless in real fights, and skills like boxing and wrestling are more effective.

Karate isn't complex, it's all about muscle memory. Karate and other traditional self defense martial arts have basic defensive and offensive movements,when practiced and made into muscle memory can be very effective. z needless to say when advanced level are mastered it is even more deadly. Problem nowadays is that it is being treated as a sport, and less of a lethal self defense technique.

 

[Stream]

Karate isn't complex...

I knew someone was going to say that, but my point was just that it's more complex than boxing. And the less you have to remember in a high adrenaline situation, the more likely you are able to execute any of it.

 

[d88]

I knew someone was going to say that, but my point was just that it's more complex than boxing. And the less you have to remember in a high adrenaline situation, the more likely you are able to execute any of it.

Not really, the basics of karate are no more complex than boxing. You don't need to learn complex moves to be effective, just learn and execute your moves to a high degree. When I learned (Shotokan) karate, at least 1/2 of our time was going through basic moves ad nauseam. We were never let loose on anything complex until we were near black belt level.

I'm not suggesting karate is anyway more effective than boxing, it depends on the individual and how well they have learned their discipline. A good boxer will obviously knock 7 bells out of someone who thinks they're Bruce Lee after watching Enter the Dragon on Netflix.

 

[Kestrel]

Anybody can feel free to start a martial arts thread in the Café I'm thinking - that is most certainly a whole 'nother topic.

 

[Rick NJ]

....
I can tell you from experience if you shine a strobe light at a crazed criminal on meth who is charging you in that alley you will be killed. Now that sloppy drunk who is just annoying you may be fun to strobe however again please do not get yourself hurt thinking a strobe feature is a self defense tool. The best thing to use is your smarts and avoid conflict all together. Any type of chemical deterrent, impact weapon, taser, or hand to hand skills will do you much better than a strobe. Practice often and remain alert is sound advice for any who wish to listen.
...

I sure appreciate your experience. Having asked my daughter to take a flashlight with her for her walks, I just updated her with your input. Since likely she would be pointing the light the attacker's direction to identify an attacker, I told her to just blinding the human attacker with a couple of seconds of light and then leave - and run if someone appears to be following, and scream if she knows the guy is after her.

I am still telling her to use that against animal - specifically dogs. We have a perhaps-homeless dog near by. She gets aggressive when she is eating. I leave cat food outside particularly during winter for a couple of homeless cats. I'm okay when the dog gets it first. One time, after finishing the cat food, the dog decided to start on my garbage (can) and got really aggressive when I attempted to get her away. Recalling my own exercise walks and (different) dogs, flash light works, I started to carry a flash light when I walk my garbage out. My last encounter with this dog (at the garbage) was couple of years back with just a 2AA minimag (incandescent) then, the dog just left after I spot the light at her face. Since that encounter, the dog (mostly) just leave after she finished the cat food - she seem to have learned I get "aggressive" (ie:light on her face) if she gets aggressive.

At times, I am not sure if I am doing the homeless cats a favor - one homeless for sure, another likely homeless. The cat is pretty good with their schedule avoiding the dog. One cat did got badly hurt after a run-in with the dog. I feel so bad when I see the two cats trying to find food in the winter, but that keeps the dog around, and every now and again, they happen to come at the same time...

 

[xzel87]

I sure appreciate your experience. Having asked my daughter to take a flashlight with her for her walks, I just updated her with your input. Since likely she would be pointing the light the attacker's direction to identify an attacker, I told her to just blinding the human attacker with a couple of seconds of light and then leave - and run if someone appears to be following, and scream if she knows the guy is after her.

I am still telling her to use that against animal - specifically dogs. We have a perhaps-homeless dog near by. She gets aggressive when she is eating. I leave cat food outside particularly during winter for a couple of homeless cats. I'm okay when the dog gets it first. One time, after finishing the cat food, the dog decided to start on my garbage (can) and got really aggressive when I attempted to get her away. Recalling my own exercise walks and (different) dogs, flash light works, I started to carry a flash light when I walk my garbage out. My last encounter with this dog (at the garbage) was couple of years back with just a 2AA minimag (incandescent) then, the dog just left after I spot the light at her face. Since that encounter, the dog (mostly) just leave after she finished the cat food - she seem to have learned I get "aggressive" (ie:light on her face) if she gets aggressive.

At times, I am not sure if I am doing the homeless cats a favor - one homeless for sure, another likely homeless. The cat is pretty good with their schedule avoiding the dog. One cat did got badly hurt after a run-in with the dog. I feel so bad when I see the two cats trying to find food in the winter, but that keeps the dog around, and every now and again, they happen to come at the same time...

You did your best to be kind to animals, don't feel bad if it doesn't work out, you did your part and the rest is up to nature. People that aren't responsible enough to own pets end up abandoning them one way or another, or not neuter them resulting in abandoned little kittens or pups.

Back on topic, I do agree that light (of certain intensity) works somewhat on dogs. They won't act as if they are terrified but they will stop or look away. I'm not so sure if it works on a vicious dog that has its mind bent on chewing you up though.

 

[NoNotAgain]

All of my Nitecore lights have a strobe feature. Other than the P20's, none of them are fast to access. My Fenix TK series lights are all accessible with a single push and hold of the mode button for a second or so.

If it's dark outside, getting hit in the eyes with 800-4000 strobing lumens is totally disorienting. Am I going to place my life on a light deterring a wood-be attacker? Not on your life.

The police agencies in this area received tons of federal money which they spent on strobe lights for their cars. They are blinding when behind you as well as if they have a traffic stop on the side of the road.

 

[SeamusORiley]

General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

We have always preferred the blinding light to deter crime but recently I learned that it works with aggressive dogs...the rapid flashing caused an aggressive shepherd to lose his aim towards me, and I was grateful as I moved away.

I wondered, though, much rather to use a light than something like pepper spray, is there a basic minimum lumen range that works well in self protection?

The one I used successfully was rated 900 lumens.

Also, is greater range actually more effective in self defense? I think lumens might be more important, but I thought I would throw this in, too.

I always love learning here.

 

[ForrestChump]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

Im sure a search would turn up much better results than my post, but a couple points.

900 lumen strobe is like a light saber to an unsuspecting threat. I don't know dogs light tolerance, it actually seems higher than a humans but as far as people even a 100 lumen blast will get the best of someone @ night that isn't expecting it depending on the situation. 900 would be 800 times "better" though. It's not so much range per say but the intensity of the light and how it's focused. If shined at a threat, 100 lumen flood will be less effective than 100 lumen throw due to intensity. Not to mention the more space between you and the threat is better, so naturaly something that is more effective at a greater range would may be desirable depending on the circumstance. but with something more focused you have to focus on getting the hot spot where you want it. Something to consider in a high stress situation.

All that said I got to throw up the disclaimer: only do something like this out of self preservation....

Thats all I really got for you. Im sure there will be many comments to follow....

 

[SeamusORiley]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

Thanks. Self defense has not been an issue, over the years I have been here in the forum, but it came up recently.

I played with my own dog who catches a tennis ball with extreme skill. With the strobe, he just stares straight ahead!

The incident I described was too close for comfort, and I kept moving away from the dog...somewhat backwards, but while keeping my body in side direction; so it would not be a retreat to chase me, nor would it be a direct confrontation of face to face, either. It was unpleasant.

 

[Treeguy]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I read a story that a guy is a "dog-proof" suit with a 200 lumen light stopped a trained attack dog that was sent in to get him. I think the story was posted on the Surefire site.

I've been carrying a 320 lumen 6PX Defender on my nightly walks for quite a while because some people don't control their dogs, and some of the dogs are big enough to cause a problem if loose. Especially that big German Shepard down the hill.

 

[Stefano]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I was attacked two occasions by dogs.
Both times the flashlight has saved me, but both times it was total darkness.
I always wondered if during the day the flashlight would have been equally effective :thinking:
Power Used: 315 to 850 lumens
(I have not used the strobe in any of the two cases)

 

[ForrestChump]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

Thanks. Self defense has not been an issue, over the years I have been here in the forum, but it came up recently.

I played with my own dog who catches a tennis ball with extreme skill. With the strobe, he just stares straight ahead!

The incident I described was too close for comfort, and I kept moving away from the dog...somewhat backwards, but while keeping my body in side direction; so it would not be a retreat to chase me, nor would it be a direct confrontation of face to face, either. It was unpleasant.

seems like you did the right thing. I would have not had the wisdom or self discipline you did and it likely would have cost me a few chunks missing.

 

[Treeguy]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I was attacked two occasions by dogs.
Both times the flashlight has saved me, but both times it was total darkness.
I always wondered if during the day the flashlight would have been equally effective :thinking:
Power Used: 315 to 850 lumens
(I have not used the strobe in any of the two cases)

Glad you came away unscathed. :thumbsup:

This is why I like a very simple flashlight for a "dog light". My 6PX Defender has one setting (max only) and a rear momentary clicky. It's either on or off. No muss, no fuss.

 

[Parrot Quack]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I pretty much have a couple of lights and a can of bear spray. The point? How easy life is, if you let it be easy.

Dogs ain't stupid. Let the dog know that you know it's there and keep moving on down the road.

 

[StriderSMF]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I stopped a very large charging German Shepard on a night time walk with my old klarus XT11 600 lumens i didnt use the strobe function just max output froze it right in its tracks about 7 feet away, it just stopped from a full run and stared into the light,some guy was running it next to his golf cart at about 9pm.I think it might have been a police dog in training because the guy shouted out commands in german and it went back to running along side his cart at a very fast speed. ,I now carry a Thrunite TN11s v2.

 

[D6859]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I noticed that 280 lumens from my Thrunite TN12 was not enough to stop two drunken teenaged festival customers this year. The area I where I used the light was lit and they were heading towards my co-worker so they were not focused in my light. Last year I stopped group of four teenaged kids with 800 lm mode when they were trying to sneak into the area in the darkness. I think the effect depends on the lightning of the area and wether the customer is sober or drunk.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

Check back on your thread often; it may be deemed verboten and removed, depending on how the cpf rules are interpreted

I think one of the important things to note is that I don't know about any controlled studies. All we have are anecdotes. And the anecdotes with dogs are: sometimes dogs stop or are dissuaded by bright strobed light, sometimes they aren't. Just like with people, some stop, some don't. It depends on the person and the context -- how shocked are they, how sensitive to the light are they, mentally were they just looking for an excuse to break off before contact? You might try your strobe on a different dog and have no effect; hell, you might try it on the same dog with no effect next time. It's a light, it can probably buy you a very brief moment of pause, after that no guarantees.

Also, is greater range actually more effective in self defense?

I'd say it's the only thing that matters, and the only things that high lumens buy you are: 1. Bigger hotspot might be easier to aim, and 2. all things being equal, higher lumens will equal higher lux (but things are rarely equal), and 3. Depending on the situation, you might also want to light up the rest of the room/surroundings to identify other threats. Which is why, in my favorite form factor -- 1" 1x18650 lights -- you might be kind of interested in this: http://eagletac.com/html/dx30lc2/specs.html 40-50% more lux than most lights this size.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Re: General Tactical Self Defense Question About Lumens

I was friends with a neighbor who purchased a trained security dog from Germany. Occasionally that dog would go all BatScat and (I think) she would yell "Platz!"

Our local meter readers who need to get out of the truck have a tool on their belt called the Bite Terminator. This can help them avoid a lawsuit with a homeowner for damaging a dog in self defense.