APEM Piezo Issue

[Flo1]

How did it go Damien? All ops normal?

 

[betti154]

How did it go Damien? All ops normal?

I'll reserve final judgement until I dive them for myself (hopefully this weekend), but after solid dive to 18m my mate reported stable power for the duration it was used (45-50min). All other operations normal, though he said he left them on high power the entire time. I think it's reasonable to infer that the problem was caused by my wiring and EM/RF interference, and has now be resolved with the capacitor fix - thanks George!

Test video shot with the light solution can be seen at http://vimeo.com/27367663 (5dMk2, ISO160, 1/50th @ f/20 ish, 17-40mm lens). Given the camera settings and wide lens, I think the lights have done a very nice job lighting the frame. Aengus reported light visually hitting subjects 3-4m away, though expects usable light intensity to be in the 2-3m range for video purposes.

 

[350xfire]

George:
Question on the Flex. Say I want to run a regular non-momentary switch with this driver. And the switch was going to be placed between the battery and driver. If I program the driver using a momentary switch as instructed, can I get rid of it after I program it and use a regular switch between the battery and driver?
Thanks

 

[betti154]

Hi,

I took the lights for a solid dive today and am happy to confirm they performed flawlessly; ~50m dept, ran them solid for 67min at full power. No issues with power levels, piezo button worked perfectly and shed loads of light output.

For reference, the specific capacitor I used was this one - http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RC5360&keywords=rc5360&form=KEYWORD

thanks all for your help!

 

[350xfire]

Hi,

I took the lights for a solid dive today and am happy to confirm they performed flawlessly; ~50m dept, ran them solid for 67min at full power. No issues with power levels, piezo button worked perfectly and shed loads of light output.

For reference, the specific capacitor I used was this one - http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=RC5360&keywords=rc5360&form=KEYWORD

thanks all for your help!

Awesome... Lets see some videos!

 

[georges80]

George:
Question on the Flex. Say I want to run a regular non-momentary switch with this driver. And the switch was going to be placed between the battery and driver. If I program the driver using a momentary switch as instructed, can I get rid of it after I program it and use a regular switch between the battery and driver?
Thanks

Yes, obviously the switch between the battery would act just like plugging in or unplugging the battery power. The momentary switch is only needed to access/configure the menu and to operate the light at various brightness levels etc etc etc.

If all you want is an on/off driver then a power switch in line with the battery will do that.

cheers,
george.

 

[350xfire]

Yes, obviously the switch between the battery would act just like plugging in or unplugging the battery power. The momentary switch is only needed to access/configure the menu and to operate the light at various brightness levels etc etc etc.

If all you want is an on/off driver then a power switch in line with the battery will do that.

cheers,
george.

thanks

 

[betti154]

Awesome... Lets see some videos!

Conditions were green and horrible, video isn't any better, but here you go.



Setup: Dual Head, single canister, No Optic,H6flex
LEDs: 5 * XMLs @ 3000ma, 4500K bin colour temp
Wreck: Bellubra, Sydney
Conditions: Woeful, ~50m, accurate colour reproduction
Camera: Canon 7D, Tokina 10-17mm @ 17mm
Settings: 1/30th @ f/4.5-6; ISO1250; Manual WB @ 6000K
Scooter: Dive-Xtras Cuda400 /w SS Video Mount

I had the camera/lights mounted to a DPV. Worked ok, but the cables/canister just make the rig more negative which is why I'm now working on mk2 (i.e. a sealed battery/head version of a similar head design). Rig is still a work in progress, so excuse the stabilty issues. Canister gets in the way too.

Beam spread and coverage is great, especially when you consider I'm using a very wide lens (commerical lights have a big issue here). There are times where the lighting gets clipped but that was due to my poor placement of the light and not the beam.

Throw is reasonable, with usuable "video light" hitting the subject nicely 2-3m away. The light carries further, but I the camera doesn't seem to pick it up.

Intensity is ok, but I could do with more. Problem is the lights are already offensive/dangerous to other divers in darker conditions (such as the deep wrecks and caves we dive), and any more light on camera is just too much in my opinion unless you're carefully coreographing your lighting with other divers.

 

[lucca brassi]

Nice video.... but Light- for- me have same videohead with 4x SST-90 !!! big difference from 4x XML . Qecause of HQ sensor in canon you don't have noise (ISO1250) in video tape

 

[betti154]

Nice video.... but Light- for- me have same videohead with 4x SST-90 !!! big difference from 4x XML . Qecause of HQ sensor in canon you don't have noise (ISO1250) in video tape

Are you saying you're getting more light with 4 * sst90? If so, what are you running them at?

 

[350xfire]

Nice set up!

 

[lucca brassi]

After looking again your video I'm almost sure that you lost a lot of light because you don't use reflectors. I think that big part of light is CAUGHT between front lens and aluminium holder of leds. A lot of light can not simply penetrate front glass , which I think works like semi-mirror ( due to air with lower optical density to glass and water with higher optical density ) .

I think that your type of light is good to soften picture and get colour fullness for macro but not penetrate water in distance for few meters.

Try with some wide reflectors or combination spot/wide

 

[betti154]

After looking again your video I'm almost sure that you lost a lot of light because you don't use reflectors. I think that big part of light is CAUGHT between front lens and aluminium holder of leds. A lot of light can not simply penetrate front glass , which I think works like semi-mirror ( due to air with lower optical density to glass and water with higher optical density ) .

I think that your type of light is good to soften picture and get colour fullness for macro but not penetrate water in distance for few meters.

Try with some wide reflectors or combination spot/wide

Interesting comments. No doubt the omission of a reflector reduces the throw/intensity, though I see this as a trade off for beam width. Since I'm shooting with extremely wide lenses most of the time, I need up to 180 degree diagonal coverage at times using a fisheye. With ~5000 lumens of output spread across ~120 degrees the intensity is greatly reduced. I don't consider reflectors to be the answer as they invariably mess with the matte/even light and this is critically important to video applications (any light sabres, flare or hots spots are unacceptable to me).

With respect to the lens being a barrier for light, this doesn't sounds right to me though I concede some light will be lost along the way (as it is in the water too). I followed what I consider is a pretty common pattern with the commercial lights - i.e. bare LEDs under a lens. The only difference is I used acrylic and not glass as it was easier to work with, though I ran some visual tests (underwater) and saw no difference between the two lens materials in different lights. On the surface, these lights are extremely bright and hit my expectations (I'm not sure this comes across in the video, but the water was rather murky). Perhaps the warmer colour temp cuts down on the lumens/lux, but I'm happy none the less.

Fisheye FIX LED Aquavolt 5000

Gates VL24

 

[DIWdiver]

The light that comes straight out the front, most of it gets through the lens. It's the light that's hitting the lens at an angle that gets partly reflected, and the lower the angle, the more gets reflected until you get to the angle of total internal reflection.

That means that with your lens you don't lose (much) intensity at the center, but you lose more and more as you get farther from the center. Anti-reflective coatings on the inside of the lens would improve this. Maybe the pros do that? The only other solution is pretty impractical - make the lens a big dome so that even light coming out at an angle from the LEDs hits the lens straight on.

 

[lucca brassi]

I have tought just in that way as DIWdiver.

Also when I looked attached pictures ( special second ) and remember on SOLA lights and some others I've noticed that all these lights have mostly leds very close to front glass or even touched it.

Led itself have radiation angle of 120° and looking XML close to enclosure edge it is clear that cca 40% of direct light of single led first hit aluminium walls and there generate light losses

Gates have here leds almost on front glass and drilled seat of leds cares that whole output of 120° hit front glass. With inner mask is also prevented uncontrolled light dispersion between leds too.

Backscatter have big emitters with big domes which projection light maybe intersect circles so maybe inner mask is not needed .

Antireflective coating might be good solution (not 100% but give you better efficiency ) and local optician might put some of these coatings on your policarbonate glass.


uff (12x3,8V ) x 8A = 364,8W

 

[betti154]

Some decent info there, thanks.

I've done some measuing and from what I can tell, assuming a 120 degree beam all light will hit the lens. Reflection back down to the alloy may be resulting is lost light still. For reference, the lens is 2.5-3mm from the LED top.

I'm working on v2 current, which has 6 * XML in a slightly larger area. I'll make a point of locating the LEDs in the centre as much as possible.

I'd always considered the face plate (or bezel for a different name) that covers the LEDs to be a cosmetic element. Assuming it isn't, it may well be worth making one up to see the difference. I could drill and countersink a hole for each LED out of an alloy disk. Once polished, each 120° may act like a reflector and push more light forward. Any got any thoughts about this?

This may be similar to both L&M Sola lights.

 

[josb]

...... I'm using an Apem piezo (in prolongated config) to provide on/off and low/med/hi power control.

Kind Regards,
Damien Siviero

Hello Damien,

Can I assume you use a piezo switch from Apem from the PBA series??
And it looks to me that the click and push functions with the H6Flex are working like they should?

Why this question?
I have been trying to use a pushbutton from Apem from the IPR series with a silicon cover, it was perfect and watertight (I can test up to 8 bar) but unfortunately the switch came on by it self at ± 2 bar

Ow Yes, one other thing about the driver, just like George says just put an capacitor over the switch contacts will solve most of the trouble.
I had it even with my dive light with a B2Flex driver in it next to one of my 35 W HID lights, when I switched on that HID light also my LED light switched it self on, just due to EMI interferances.
After putting in the capacitor the problem was over.

Kind Regards,
JosB

 

[betti154]

Hello Damien,

Can I assume you use a piezo switch from Apem from the PBA series??
And it looks to me that the click and push functions with the H6Flex are working like they should?

Why this question?
I have been trying to use a pushbutton from Apem from the IPR series with a silicon cover, it was perfect and watertight (I can test up to 8 bar) but unfortunately the switch came on by it self at ± 2 bar

Ow Yes, one other thing about the driver, just like George says just put an capacitor over the switch contacts will solve most of the trouble.
I had it even with my dive light with a B2Flex driver in it next to one of my 35 W HID lights, when I switched on that HID light also my LED light switched it self on, just due to EMI interferances.
After putting in the capacitor the problem was over.

Kind Regards,
JosB

Yes I'm using a PBA series piezo. They're all working perfectly now once cap went in.

If it's a silcone push button you're using, is it the pressure pushing down the button that is causing you the auto turn on?

 

[josb]

.....If it's a silcone push button you're using, is it the pressure pushing down the button that is causing you the auto turn on?

Hello Damien,

Yes it was the waterpressure pushing the switch, although it looked very nice it didn't work.
(I'm not able to post attachments (yet??) so I can't show you the light I made)

 

[Klem]

I've just had the same problem with my H6Flex cycling through the modes without pressing the piezo. I thought it was physical contact or proximity of wiring to the driver (I mentioned this earlier in another thread).

George's solution with the cap across the contacts has fixed it. I'm using a 0.01uF in the photo and will now make it more permanent...Thanks George.