Battery fit issue on new Zebralight SC600w Mk IV HI

[emarkd]

Most of you new to Zebralight seem to be missing one important detail about these battery fitment issues. Its not random, and its certainly not just so they can shrink the light a mm more. All these current-gen (and most of last-gen) Zebras use XHP-series emitters. Those are all either 6 or 12 volt LEDs. We're feeding them with a 4v cell, and driving them to high levels. That means the light has to have a strong boost driver.

In other words these little lights pull lots of amps from the cell.

Protected batteries just won't work. They'd trip, or at least be likely to. What good would an extended tailcap be if your protection circuit just tripped as soon as you hit the switch? Plus pogo-pins have less resistance than springs, but allow a smaller range of sizes to fit. Its all about getting enough amperage to that driver. So while it may be annoying at first (and I agree, it is), Zebralight shortened these lights so you wouldn't have a choice and they wouldn't have to deal with the false "warranty" claims caused by folks using unsupported batteries. Use an unprotected cell, its required by these boost drivers.

 

[markr6]

^ Well said. Keep it simple, stick with the good unprotected cells. NCR18650GA, Sony VTC, etc. People should be thankful there are only a few "easy" choices here, and that the cost is $7 compared to $20 per cell not that long ago.

I bought an 8-pack of NCR18650GA cells a while back. A little rattle in some of my Zebralights, OK in others. It just varies a little. So I like putting a clear wrapper on them to tighten things up - $1 for a 10 pack. A couple minutes and a hair dryer and you're done. NICE SNUG FIT with zero rattling.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Also worth keeping in mind that the resulting lights are *really* small. Smaller than some famous single-cell CR123 lights.

I have had pretty knowledgeable flashoholics look at my SC600 Mk III HI and think that it was a single-cell CR123 light.

They are then pretty blown away that it is actually an 18650 light.

 

[Tachead]

Most of you new to Zebralight seem to be missing one important detail about these battery fitment issues. Its not random, and its certainly not just so they can shrink the light a mm more. All these current-gen (and most of last-gen) Zebras use XHP-series emitters. Those are all either 6 or 12 volt LEDs. We're feeding them with a 4v cell, and driving them to high levels. That means the light has to have a strong boost driver.

In other words these little lights pull lots of amps from the cell.

Protected batteries just won't work. They'd trip, or at least be likely to. What good would an extended tailcap be if your protection circuit just tripped as soon as you hit the switch? Plus pogo-pins have less resistance than springs, but allow a smaller range of sizes to fit. Its all about getting enough amperage to that driver. So while it may be annoying at first (and I agree, it is), Zebralight shortened these lights so you wouldn't have a choice and they wouldn't have to deal with the false "warranty" claims caused by folks using unsupported batteries. Use an unprotected cell, its required by these boost drivers.

While I myself have come to not mind using unprotected flat tops, this information is just not true.

Any ZL will in fact run just fine on the right protected cells if they would fit.

The most powerful ZL to date only draws less then 8 amps and that is only a quick burst for about 15 seconds before the PID kicks in and significantly drops the current draw. It also only draws 8 amps on an almost fully discharged cell, on a full one it only draws about 5-6amps. Most other ZL's draw 6 amps or less(some much less) and ZL has even confirmed most can safely run on a low draw old Panasonic NCR18650B's.

There are several protected cells capable of delivering 10 amps continuous discharge and a few capable of 15 amps continuous discharge so they will easily run any ZL and are capable of running a light that is almost double the amp draw of the most powerful ZL.

The pogo pins are also not needed due to resistance issues.

Many other much higher amperage lights use springs(some single, some double) and work just fine. The Emisar D4 uses a single spring on the tailcap and draws 24 amps on turbo for instance. It should also be noted that many of the new 6 and 12V emitter powered ZL's use a spring tailcap or duel springs including the entire SC63/64 line and entire H600 line. So do 6 and 12V emitter powered lights from other brands. Plus, any resistance deficiencies can easily mitigated by increasing the gauge of the springs, going to a duel spring design, or going with a spring bypass design.

Imo ZL changed their design mainly to shorten their lights and to try an show off a new design(the pogo pins). The pogo pins were not needed and were simply a design choice.

Now, that said, unprotected flat tops are much easier to find then protected cells these days. They are also much cheaper. They can be found at Vape shops in even the smallest of cities and a great selection are available from a number of very reputable online vendors. They can also be ordered in bulk from a variety of offshore vendors. And, considering ZL's have built in low voltage protection and a battery capacity indicator there are no big downsides to unprotected cells other then having to get some if you don't already have some for other lights. The only real downsides are lower contact pressure which can cause a bit of added battery rattle but, that can be cured by adding a layer or two of extra heat shrink over your cells. And, cells are less protected from shock which can cause damage to the terminals under high shock conditions but, ZL has made a design change to help this on the newest production. It should also be noted that a bit of added caution should be taken when using unprotected cells however due to their lack of a built in protection circuit. Only a high quality charger should be used and they should always be kept in cases or silicone sleeves when not in a light or the charger due to short circuit concerns.

 

[Lou Minescence]

I hope in the future there will be a tailcap especially made so the Zebralights will take longer batteries. The market has been coming out with high drain 8amp protected batteries that could work if they fit. When I venture out and need a light I will carry 2 incase one quits. Now I have to think if the lights can swap batteries. I like having the option of doing so if needed.

 

[Tachead]

I hope in the future there will be a tailcap especially made so the Zebralights will take longer batteries. The market has been coming out with high drain 8amp protected batteries that could work if they fit. When I venture out and need a light I will carry 2 incase one quits. Now I have to think if the lights can swap batteries. I like having the option of doing so if needed.

I highly doubt you will ever see a new extended tailcap unfortunately. These pogo pin lights have been out for about 2 years now and it looks like they are sticking with the design. The easy solution is to just use lights that can take unprotected flat tops. The majority of lights can these days anyway.

 

[emarkd]

Any ZL will in fact run just fine on the right protected cells if they would fit.

I don't disagree with you, but the important clause in this sentence is "the _right_ ..cell"

Think about it from Zebra's perspective. What's easier from a business standpoint:

* Remove protected cell compatibility and physically force people to use unprotected cells of a certain size, of which all that fit will work the light

or

* Allow all sorts of cells to fit and just deal with the complaints, "fake" warranty claims, and overall customer backlash when folks inevitably load the light up with the closest crap cell and then blame Zebralight when it doesn't work properly

They're protecting themselves by forcing us to do it their way. Yes the choice would be nice, but I can't say I blame them for not allowing it...

 

[Tachead]

I don't disagree with you, but the important clause in this sentence is "the _right_ ..cell"

Think about it from Zebra's perspective. What's easier from a business standpoint:

* Remove protected cell compatibility and physically force people to use unprotected cells of a certain size, of which all that fit will work the light

or

* Allow all sorts of cells to fit and just deal with the complaints, "fake" warranty claims, and overall customer backlash when folks inevitably load the light up with the closest crap cell and then blame Zebralight when it doesn't work properly

They're protecting themselves by forcing us to do it their way. Yes the choice would be nice, but I can't say I blame them for not allowing it...

I get what you are saying but, I don't think that was their reasoning.

You have to remember that there are several unprotected cells that wont work in these light either. Some won't fit due to length issues, some don't have high enough amperage ratings for certain models of their lights, and then there is the Ultrafires. ZL made this a non-issue by selling the correct cells for their lights on their site and giving detailed cell requirements in each models features and specs lists.

I honestly think they mainly did it to make the lights smaller.

 

[Lurveleven]

What happens if someone puts a crap unproteced cell in there? A cell with high internal resistance, will it catch fire? There is a reason you have a cut of on protected cells.

 

[Connor]

What happens if someone puts a crap unproteced cell in there? A cell with high internal resistance, will it catch fire? There is a reason you have a cut of on protected cells.

Nothing bad really. Depending on what kind of cell it is it will run on max for a few seconds and then step down massively.
When I put a quite old LG 2600 mAh cell in my SC63w it runs on max for 10-20secs then starts to flicker rapidly and steps down several times to about the medium level.

 

[markr6]

Yeah I had some cells pulled from a laptop 2000mAh I believe. So they were used heavily for about 5 years plus another 3 years just sitting unused. So JUNK! I put them in my SC600w HI and it ran for awhile on high, then PID, then eventually down thru lower levels. After a hour or so it cut off, I think it was 2.68v on my DMM or something like that.

 

[terjee]

The primary reason for button top is mechanical reverse polarity protection, which the Zebralights do not need.

The primary need for protected cells is in multi cell applications, which the Zebralights are not.

With those two things out of the way, unprotected flat tops become the obvious choice, and some of the lights are optimized for that.

As long as those extras are not needed, I'd even prefer the unprotected flat tops, fewer things that can go wrong.

I do see a point about standardizing on a battery you could use in all lights though, but if you were to standardize, I think unprotected flat tops would make the most sense.

With the new style pogo pins (which I think I like), it's could be fairly hard to make a contact setup that worked well with both button- and flattop.

I'd want protected for a multi cell light, but they'd stay as a pack, and wouldn't be swapped into a zebra anyway.

I do get that it can be annoying if you're an Eagtac fan (requires buttontop, at least some of them) and have a ton of protected batteries, but at the same time, new flat top unprotected can be had for about $3-4?

So in a way, the only thing (that I can think of at the moment) is not being able to carry one type battery fitting both Zebralight and something requiring button top.

Would we really have Zebralight change things just for that pretty specific use case?

I don't think I would.

Did I miss anything here?

 

[markr6]

I agree. If you are in a SHTF situation where you want to be able to swap all kinds of cells, then you shouldn't be relying on a complicated light like Zebralight in the first place. A simple light that can take any kind of AA, 18650, etc. is key in that case.

Outside of SHTF, you can easily have a couple of "dedicated" cells for this light, and likely others. Unless you need a button top. I have some of those too, but they're the exception for me.

 

[Tachead]

The primary reason for button top is mechanical reverse polarity protection, which the Zebralights do not need.

The primary need for protected cells is in multi cell applications, which the Zebralights are not.

With those two things out of the way, unprotected flat tops become the obvious choice, and some of the lights are optimized for that.

As long as those extras are not needed, I'd even prefer the unprotected flat tops, fewer things that can go wrong.

I do see a point about standardizing on a battery you could use in all lights though, but if you were to standardize, I think unprotected flat tops would make the most sense.

With the new style pogo pins (which I think I like), it's could be fairly hard to make a contact setup that worked well with both button- and flattop.

I'd want protected for a multi cell light, but they'd stay as a pack, and wouldn't be swapped into a zebra anyway.

I do get that it can be annoying if you're an Eagtac fan (requires buttontop, at least some of them) and have a ton of protected batteries, but at the same time, new flat top unprotected can be had for about $3-4?

So in a way, the only thing (that I can think of at the moment) is not being able to carry one type battery fitting both Zebralight and something requiring button top.

Would we really have Zebralight change things just for that pretty specific use case?

I don't think I would.

Did I miss anything here?

I would just add that protected cells are still inherently more safe. Especially the new style ones with a metal riveted cap that protects the PCB.

Unprotected cells have no protection against short circuiting and can quickly start a fire or explode of short circuited(when left unprotected in a pocket with other batteries or metal as an example). With a protected cell the PTC will immediately trip in a short circuit situation and protect the user. Protected cells are also over temperature and over current protected by the PTC unlike unprotected. So, if the cell gets too hot in a light or you try to draw too much current from it, the PTC will automatically cut connection and protect the user. An unprotected cell can just explode or catch fire in the same scenario. Over-discharge protection is another benefit of protected cells. This will stop a cell from being discharged too far in a light that doesn't have this protection built in.

Now, in a ZL, most of these things are not an issue as they have low voltage protection and thermal regulation but, one should still be more careful using unprotected cells as they just are less forgiving and the user is responsible for his or her safety. The most important precaution imo when using unprotected cells is to always store them in a sealed case or silicone sleeve when they are not in use to prevent a short circuit. These cells have a lot of energy in them and can not only instantly make a red hot heating coil out of most small metal objects but, can also catch fire and explode with an alarming amount of energy if short circuited or overheated as a result.

This is what happens when you don't head this warning(skip to 1:13)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw_2rxSzA5c

 

[terjee]

Now, in a ZL, most of these things are not an issue as they have low voltage protection and thermal regulation but, one should still be more careful using unprotected cells as they just are less forgiving and the user is responsible for his or her safety. The most important precaution imo when using unprotected cells is to always store them in a sealed case or silicone sleeve when they are not in use to prevent a short circuit. These cells have a lot of energy in them and can not only instantly make a red hot heating coil out of most small metal objects but, can also catch fire and explode with an alarming amount of energy if short circuited or overheated as a result.

Thanks for the reminder!

In retrospect, I should've made it more clear that I was talking only in the context of knowledgeable users and high quality lights.

Given a cheap (in both meanings of the word) flashlight, or an underage user for example, it's a completely different picture. Or a grownup not familiar with the dangers of 18650s really.

 

[Lurveleven]

The Zebralight headlamps that are using XHP35 and XHP50 still takes protected cells up to 69mm and has same output as the SC64 lights, so apparently no effect of the pogo pins in those lights.

I have a big problem with a light requiring a different battery from what the other lights use, it add a mental tax. I have to remember not to use the battery from the light in other lights that does not protect the battery, so I have to remember which lights are safe or not, having more than one light I'm sure I will mess up. I also have some lights that requires button tops to work, but don't remember which, so I have standardized on button tops so I don't need to wonder why a light doesn't work.

 

[Tachead]

The Zebralight headlamps that are using XHP35 and XHP50 still takes protected cells up to 69mm and has same output as the SC64 lights, so apparently no effect of the pogo pins in those lights.

I have a big problem with a light requiring a different battery from what the other lights use, it add a mental tax. I have to remember not to use the battery from the light in other lights that does not protect the battery, so I have to remember which lights are safe or not, having more than one light I'm sure I will mess up. I also have some lights that requires button tops to work, but don't remember which, so I have standardized on button tops so I don't need to wonder why a light doesn't work.

Just buy a couple unprotected flat tops just for the Zebralight and write ZL on them in black permanent marker. It's not like you will mix them up anyway as they will be the plain red or green ones with no label.

It's really not worth passing on some of the smallest, most efficient, and best quality flashlights on the market just because of the cell limitations imo.

 

[markr6]

I do a little of both. Everything button tops to cover all bases. Flat tops for Zebralights. No need to write on them or anything. Just remove, charge, replace when necessary. The others I can mix if I want, but I don't.

 

[Connor]

You could use coloured shrink-wrap to easily tell apart your 18650 cells.
I think it's important to stress that the 18650 flat top cell is the industry standard and the protected cells are sort of a *******ization, not the other way round.

 

[markr6]

You could use coloured shrink-wrap to easily tell apart your 18650 cells.
I think it's important to stress that the 18650 flat top cell is the industry standard and the protected cells are sort of a *******ization, not the other way round.

That's true. In fact, we probably shouldn't even have them available for use in flashlights as they were designed. But keep them coming!! (knock on wood)

Lots of options, lots of great lights. Great time to be a flashaholic.