Been out of flashlights for a while - what to replace Arc LS?

[carrot]

PlayboyJoeShmoe is correct. Unless they've changed something, the head is interchangeable on the L1D and L2D.

I'd also second paulr's recommendation on looking into the upcoming HDS Twisty. IMHO it's the spiritual successor to the Arc LS. Ugly, though.

 

[qip]

yes L1d,L2d,P2d all use same head

your getting exactly what you want...i think your worried on the labeling of q5 premium on l2d as when you get L1d theres no q5 label, the q5 is just the emitter "which btw is best at moment from fenix" and so when you take the q5 head off the l2d and putit on a L1d or p2d body it will also be q5 light

the " ce " just means its a cree led which at first was the first "p4 bin" then there was q2 q4 and now q5 but its all the same head so no worries on compatibility

 

[karlthev]

Well, nothing quite replaces the LS in my book. I'm a clicky fan (not exactly original for the Arc First Run) and one of the two lights I EDC is a modded First Run with a reflector vs a lens. A Luxeon under the hood though, no Seoul or Cree. Not quite stock as you have asked but...The design is a classic probably never to be duplicated. Still an old, reliable standard with an unshakable pedigree. Look for them, they are still here and will be for a long, long time, one of them on my belt!


Karl

 

[paulr]

I never had or handled an original, second, third or whatever gen of the ARC LS. So I don't know about levels or such.

I do have some experience with Fenix, and still very much appreciate my P1. It is a simple LUX III single level 123 light.

But my limited Fenix D experience still says for a reasonably priced modern light the LOD, L1D, L2D, P1D etc. will do nicely.

I can basically go through my day at work, use a 1W 1AA and be perfectly happy. I don't need the brightest 1AAA, 1AA or 123 lights.

You can still grab a black P1 at FenixStore!!!!

Joe, the Arc LS had two basic characteristics. 1) it was a Luxeon light of maybe 15 lumens in its early standard versions or maybe 25 lumens in the $150+ premium versions near the end. This was bleeding edge for that era but totally unimpressive by today's standards, and all the Fenixes, MTE's etc. blow it away in terms of pure lumens. 2) It had a purist (though modular) design philosophy and was built like a tank. Nothing Fenix has ever built comes anywhere close. That is why it is still in high demand by modders today (Groundhog66 just sold a nickel plated one on Custom BST for something like $250). I don't see anyone modding Fenixes with that kind of TLC.

A lot of respondents in this thread (and on CPF in general) totally ignore characteristic #2 of the LS and as such have been recommending the digital Fenixes, which I think leaves out an aspect that's more important to some users than others. I guess Bigred checked out the description and liked what s/he saw and placed an order, so that's fine. The original question was too vague to know which way to answer. The several interpretations to "Arc LS replacement" that I can see are:

1) a rugged, high tech light of coherent, purist design that uses the best available technology and is (like the LS) somewhat insensitive to cost. This would be the Novatac/HDS which go up to 120 lumens, far beyond the original, plus add features like multiple brightness levels and (HDS Tr70) a red led for night vision, while staying in the same price class as the original.

2). A rugged, purist one-level light that puts out 15-25 lumens like the original LS did, using modern leds but otherwise not trying to be bleeding edge. This is the Peak Pacific (HP or UP) which costs a lot less than the LS did, though its performance and features may be considered boring by today's standards.

3) A high tech, low priced light that tries to maximize technical features and lumens while sacrificing ruggedness and design coherence in a quest for "bang for the buck". This is the Fenix, more features than you can shake a magic wand at, while still far less expensive than the LS. However, at least some LS aficionados don't find its design to their liking.

 

[Gunner12]

What exactly are you looking for in your next EDC.

If you are buying a Fenix, I recommend buying from Fenix Store. They also have an 8% off coupon for CPF users, "CPF8".

L2D-CE Q5, Powerpack(P2D-CE Q5, L1D body, and a diffuser), also a bunch of other stuff there too.

Welcome back!

 

[NeonLights]

I used to EDC an ARC LSH-P with twisty pack, and it was one of my favorite lights of all time. My wife also kept an ARC LSL in her purse. I ended up selling both when ARC went under, I still sometimes regret it. The light I've found to best replace my ARC LS was a Fenix P1, and later on a P1-CE. However I liked it because it is a very compact twisty single 123 cell light. If I wanted something similar to an ARC LS but that used 2xAA batteries I'd go with a Minimag and a LED drop-in. If you absolutely can't have a drop-in with a Minimag, than a Magled.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Keep your high end Arc LS. If it is the original first run LS then have the led replaced with a low vf Seoul P4, or Cree, and you can use it with one AA battery holder, and a 2AA holder for higher output. The first runs did not have a window so you would need an appropriate optic, not the Nxo5 that was originally used, I think. I had my First Run set up by Bombelman with a flupic driver, Cree P4, optic designed for a Cree P4, and a good heatsink. Works great with an RCR123. However, you did want to use a single AA, so that mod would be out.

Bill

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

And for less than the cost of that Magled you could have a Rayovac Sportsmans Extreme 2AA 1W that is built WAY tougher and has a push/twist tail cap like a tactical light.

And almost anyone who reports say the 1W has a nicer tint than the 3W.

Okay the ARC LS was something SIMILAR in thought to the ARC AAA or CMG Infinity in that it was a drop dead simple early Luxeon light. Right?

 

[bigred]

Paulr, thank you for the informative post. Very much appreciated. (It's "he" by the way *smile*)

If anyone values a quality product, it is me. That is why I opted for the expensive ARC LS years ago. I paid top dollar and got my money's worth. I was one who pre-ordered an Arc4 when they first came out, so I know firsthand that you get what you pay for in life, flashlights included. All this to say, I haven't ordered a Fenix yet, but I know very well that it won't hold up to the abuse that the ARC's did. (I *was* able to break my three ARC's. An LSH-P, an LSH-P Fraen, and an ARC4). I've done some research, and although I like what I see with some of the choices (Novatac, HDS), the lack of availability on one and the lack of AA power on the other is what is holding me back at this time.

I ran my ARC LSH-P (Fraen) with an unanodized twisty (remember those?) but actually preferred to EDC my LSH-P with a 2AA clicky. Looking back, I ended up running the Fraen with the 2AA clicky because I much preferred the Fraen optics. I just prefer the availability of AA batteries for everyday use. That is why I am looking at the Fenix L2D w/ L1D body as an option. I *know* it won't hold up as well as either of the Arc's, but I feel that the benefits of the added performance combined with the relatively low price make it a worthwhile choice. I've done a LOT of reading about these lights and have found very little negative feedback.

I guess I'm being a little hypocritical since I specified ARC LS-type durability and am (possibly) settling for less.

Now I'm really confused. Oh well, more reading I shall do.

 

[paulr]

Okay the ARC LS was something SIMILAR in thought to the ARC AAA or CMG Infinity in that it was a drop dead simple early Luxeon light. Right?

Hmm, I wouldn't say that, it had a focusing optic (decent led reflectors weren't available then), it had a lens, it had interchangeable battery tubes, it used a stock dat2zip converter board as found in minimag conversions. It is pretty easy to mod and upgrade. You could swap the led and optic for a reflector and more modern led and have a light that's still good today. In fact there's a Bombelman/Yaesumofo collaboration to do a thoroughly modernized version of the LS. In terms of Arc AAA comparison: I'd say the LL123 (of which the Fenix P1CE is basically a copy) was sort of a 123+Luxeon version of the AAA. The Arc LS was more like the HDS in construction, i.e. mechanically very tough with thick walls and thick threads, at significant cost in weight and size (though in length, the LS twisty is still one of the shortest 1x123's). The Arc AAA is a delicate jewel by comparison.

It occurs to me, if Bigred still has his LS and just wants something more up-to-date, one approach would be to just get it modded. I assume he has the 2aa pack for it but if not, those can be found on BST if you look for them.

 

[paulr]

That is why I am looking at the Fenix L2D w/ L1D body as an option. I *know* it won't hold up as well as either of the Arc's, but I feel that the benefits of the added performance combined with the relatively low price make it a worthwhile choice. I've done a LOT of reading about these lights and have found very little negative feedback.

I guess I'm being a little hypocritical since I specified ARC LS-type durability and am (possibly) settling for less.

Now I'm really confused. Oh well, more reading I shall do.

Well, the CPF motto is buy both. Until the HDS 2aa pack is actually available, the Fenix and its relatives are basically the only game in town if you want a multi-level AA light. Hmm, there is the LRI Proton Pro that might have been mentioned, that you might also find interesting. The thing with powerful AA lights (especially 1AA) is they want to run on rechargeables, not alkalines, because of their high current draw.

 

[Oddjob]

Sort off topic and not what you are currently looking for but thought I'd just throw this out as an FYI for the future. In case you did not know Peter is working on a new Arc LS that has a programmable piston action (like the McGizmo PD). You can find info on the Market Place. It may be a little while until it comes out but maybe later in the New Year if you find yourself looking, keep an eye on the Arc Website. Here's a pic:

http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lsr7noclipco4.jpg

 

[Ty_Bower]

I ran my ARC LSH-P (Fraen) with an unanodized twisty (remember those?) but actually preferred to EDC my LSH-P with a 2AA clicky.

You mean, like the one on the bottom?


Funnily enough, this LSH has a Fraen optic in it, even though it wasn't born with one. And, I happen to have a 2AA clicky battery tube for it. Maybe you should send me a PM...

 

[flashy bazook]

Yeah, like Oddjob, I find it surprising that the new Arc-LS has not been mentioned.

Actually, it would be very interesting to see what would bigred make of the proposed new Arc-LS design?

Personally I found it a surprising "evolution" from the original (based on descriptions as I have not owned the original), and it would be very interesting to see what one would make of it who had been away from flashlights for a while and had used the original Arc's.

(putting aside the choice of battery, which I gather that for the new Arc-LS will be the 1xCR123A, but possibly with different battery tubes at some point in the future).

 

[Minjin]

Funny how when we look back, it's always the good ole days. It's never the crappy ole days. It doesn't matter how much better things can get, we always use rose colored glasses to look to the past. I had an Arc LS that I loved. And today's lights, yes even the Fenix's, are so superior its not funny. People seem to forget all the complaints about the exposed optic in the front or the battery tubes that only worked with one brand of CR123.

You will NOT be displeased with an L2D.

 

[yaesumofo]

Actually this is incorrect. The direct heir to the arc LS was the ARC 4. Henry had a hand in it's design. It was the ARC 4 which caused the ARC company as it was then to disintegrate. Only then did the HDS lights make their way to market.

No body has mentioned (I don't think) that there is a NEW RC LS being made by are which is basically an ARC PD as it is a collaboration between McGizmo and ARC.
So this is another light to look forward to and it may bring you full circle back to the ARC.

Since a AA pack is a requirement (no custom setup)you have put in a difficult stumbling block. There are not many companies like ARC was back in the day where maximum compatibility was in mind in making a AA pack as well as the cr123 pack.

If you can live without a AA pack Personally I would recommend the Novatac light It is a good quality light every bit the equal of the original arc LS. Infact the Novatac ia a much better light in many ways.

Another choice are the fenix lights. pick a AA fenix and you have a light which exceeds the original ARC LS's performance.

Have fun good luck welcome back.

If it were up to me I would just bite the bullet and get a Novatac.
It will work just fine for you.

Yaesumofo

The direct heir to the ARC LS was the HDS EDC. This is no longer available.

The heir to that is the current NovaTac, which is available at Lighthound and elsewhere (Lighthound is running a sale today as I recall). This is "the" EDC today, though there is no AA pack that I know of.

It's still the case that whatever light Henry S. most recently designed is the best EDC of the moment. He's about to release his own lights again as pauper mentioned, which will compete with NovaTac. The new HDC will be a one generation newer than NovaTac but I'm not sure what the improvements are.

Fenix makes some lights in the ARC LS form-factor. Fenix is a Chinese manufacturer and the design is not up to Henry's ARC LS / HDS / NovaTac standards (battery compatibility, immersibility, etc) but they are good bang-for-the-buck and they have heads that can use a AAA and AA batteries as well as CR123 heads. I use Fenix lights as workbench lights, but stick to NovaTac for EDC.

 

[MicroE]

Bigred --- I have owned both the Arc LS and the 4+, so I understand what level of light you are used to carrying.

Personally, I am not planning to buy ANY Fenix products. I bought 3 of their lights when they were first introduced and two of them died fast deaths. The plating on the battery contacts just flaked off and the lights became unreliable.

My current EDC is what I would recommend to you:
A LRI Photon Proton. It has excellent output (which is variable), runs on a single AA cell and uses a great single-button interface. $55USD
You can see it listed as the Proton Pro at Brightguy.com

 

[joema]

I have a modified HDS U60, have had several Fenix lights, most recent a P3D Q5.

My main advice is don't fixate so much on AA power just because you get free batteries. Yes there are lots of great AA lights, but many lights nowadays run on rechargeable RCR123A batteries.

That basically eliminates the cost issue, and in an emergency they can run on CR123As you get get at any drug store.

Fenix lights are great -- I love my P3D, especially using rechargables and a red filter, the low level is very low -- preserves night vision.

However Fenix lights have a slippery texture many don't like. Why Fenix doesn't knurl all their lights like HDS, Surefire, etc, I have no idea.

The Novatac 120P is available now, successor to the HDS. Runs on primary or rechargeable CR123As: http://www.novatac.com/

Or if you can wait, I'd recommend checking reviews on the HDS Twisty, should be out in a few weeks. Uses a single CR123A, either primary or rechargeable: http://www.hdssystems.com/Twisty.html

Another option already mentioned is the new Arc LS. Will also run on rechargeable RCR123As: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2046671&postcount=513

 

[bigred]

Funny how when we look back, it's always the good ole days. It's never the crappy ole days. It doesn't matter how much better things can get, we always use rose colored glasses to look to the past.

Ain't it the troot? You nailed it... rose colored glasses.

I ordered a Fenix L2D Q5 along with a Fenix Q5 power pack. This will give me a CR123 powered
light along with a 1AA or 2AA powered light. Nice combo I think.

Tell you what, I was able to break all three of my big Arc's (LSH-P, LSH-P Fraen, Arc4+) so if Fenix lights really are junk, I'll find out sooner rather than later. You should see my original LSH-P. It looks 'bout a hundred years old.

Anyway, time will tell. If the Fenix lights are crap, I'll just get something else. BTW, I may be in the minority, but AA power is a big deal to me.

 

[MicroE]

I understand your desire to use AA's.
You may like them because they are free, but I like them because they are available everywhere.

I can get off an airplane almost anywhere and buy AA's at a reasonable price. If I need to buy 123's or CR2's, it is a different story: they may not be available at all or they may be incredibly expensive. A 1.4 Watt light that uses AA's can be much more powerful than a 5W light that uses 123's if you can't buy any lithiums.

The new TSA rules may severely limit our ability to carry extra lithium cells on airplanes. This is another reason to buy AA lights.