Best battery chemistry for cold temperatures

[Mr Happy]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

B&D is the key here, remember B&D are targeting consumer grade tools so the quality of the batteries they use is pretty low end so you can't say all NiMH's behave as them. Its like saying all NiMH's self discharge fast because Energizer 2500's do.

OK...so B&D are believed to be low quality, yet their products work well in testing. All products cannot be assumed to behave the same as B&D, so other more expensive and higher quality products may not work as well as B&D...?

 

[Eugene]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

You said to now use rechargeable though even though your BD worked OK, what I'm saying is B&D uses the low end cells so better quailty cells will do even better so NiMH should work fine.

 

[bob_ninja]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Eugene,
I don't understand your point at all.
My statement is simple:
NiMH type batteries from ANY brand don't work well below freezing.
Lithium type batteries from ANY brand work much better below freezing and tend to maintain a good performance, as well as above freezing temps.

B&D VPX is just an example of my own experience. In fact, VPX uses VERY good and high quality A123 cells which I found to work very well even at -10C or lower. So VPX is an example of Lithium working well below freezing.

One winter I tried a flashlight using standard AA NiMH. In fact I loaded 9 charged cells, so it had plenty of juice. After about 5 min light diminished and then light died. I could clearly see low temperature degrading cell performance. I didn't even try any of my NiCd powered tools.

 

[BackBlast]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Sanyo advertised good cold weather performance on the launch of Eneloops. Unfortunately there is no data, no white paper, to quantify this. More recent NiMH tech seems to do better in the cold than older cells. I, myself, have discharged Eneloops at 0 F and saw a minimal performance drop. I wasn't able to reliably test any lower and I'm not sure how reliable my 0 F test was either due to localized heating from cell discharge with minimal air flow packed amongst the food in my freezer

I've also run better tests in the 20 F range with minimal performance drop. The cells hold up well in the cold from my experience...

There is no danger in discharging them below freezing. Just don't charge them below freezing.

I say, give 'em a try and see how they do. Do report back and tell us about your experience. Keep a lithium cell on hand as a backup.

 

[bob_ninja]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Good idea
I haven't tried my Eneloops yet, so I'll try them this winter.

 

[StarHalo]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

LEDs do better in the cold (all the way down to -80, as far as has been tested) and batteries do better in the heat (up to about 120, no higher), good luck figuring out how to coordinate that one..

But the OP was asking about batteries for a car light, and Energizer Lithiums definitely do best in storage and temperature extremes.

 

[bob_ninja]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Yeah, I know testing is tricky.
Still my goal/aim is much more modest.
Few years back I used an ordinary LED light with 9 AAs, forget which brand NiMH cells (likely around 2000 mAh).
Light started working as normal, then after about 5 min started flashing a warning and shortly afterwards shut down. So it is not a question of how well cells and LED work or not, but if they'll work at all. At least for me.

This winter I would like to use the head light when clearing snow. The typical temps are in the -20C to 0C range. This light uses AAAs, so I'll try Eneloop AAAs and different power levels.

I would be happy if the light worked at all, even if I got a shorter run time. I only need an hour or so at the minimum.

 

[StarHalo]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

This winter I would like to use the head light when clearing snow. The typical temps are in the -20C to 0C range. This light uses AAAs, so I'll try Eneloop AAAs and different power levels.

The light should work fine, with 30 mins to an hour less runtime, not an issue if you're only using it for an hour.

 

[NeonLights]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Definitely stick with lithium cells for car lights. After having countless D and AA Maglites leak in my cars over a 10-15 year period, I've switched to exclusively lithium powered lights in all five of our cars, either AA, AAA, or 123 cell lights, and I've never had one leak in the 5-6 years since I've switched. Great cold-weather performance, and when I fire up a light that has been sitting in a glove box with little or no use after two years, it works.

 

[danreetz]

What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

I live in a place where the winters routinely reach 20 below, sometimes further down. In addition to my EDC, a Nitecore D10, I would like to keep a light or two in my car.

Basically, there are two usage scenarios here.

1. The light which will generally be in my pocket or close to my body. Common sense says that light will probably stay warm enough to just keep using Eneloops all winter, or it can be warmed up in an internal pocket. Tell me if I'm wrong here, or if you have a better approach.

2. The light which will be stored in an emergency kit in the car. The batteries and electronics in this light should be able to withstand repeated (daily) freezing without going totally dead. What are my options here? Lithiums?

 

[Black Rose]

Re: What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

For #1, I honestly don't know. I'd guess that Eneloops may be OK, but once it's away from your body and exposed to the cold for any length of time, it may drop off rapidly.

For #2, primary lithiums are your only real choice, whether it's CR123A, AA or AAA cells.

 

[StarHalo]

Re: What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

Any battery will do for your pocket EDC, all battery types do well in warm conditions (rechargeables will self-discharge slightly faster but not enough that you'll notice a difference). For winter cold, primary lithiums are the way to go; they're good down to -40.

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

I live in a place where the winters routinely reach 20 below, sometimes further down. In addition to my EDC, a Nitecore D10, I would like to keep a light or two in my car.

Basically, there are two usage scenarios here.

1. The light which will generally be in my pocket or close to my body. Common sense says that light will probably stay warm enough to just keep using Eneloops all winter, or it can be warmed up in an internal pocket. Tell me if I'm wrong here, or if you have a better approach.

2. The light which will be stored in an emergency kit in the car. The batteries and electronics in this light should be able to withstand repeated (daily) freezing without going totally dead. What are my options here? Lithiums?

Lithiums work at -20. Found out last winter camping.

 

[altis]

Re: What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

The datasheet reckons -40 - but I've never checked this!

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

 

[Marduke]

Re: What is the best battery chemistry for seriously cold weather?

For pockets close to your body, as long as the light remains above freezing, Eneloops will work fine. There will be even less self discharge than normal at room temp. If it's used for prolonged periods in the cold, you will notice a shorter battery life. But you won't know until you try in your specific circumstances.


For extended cold storage and use, lithium primaries is the way to go.

 

[Eugene]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Eugene,
I don't understand your point at all.
My statement is simple:
NiMH type batteries from ANY brand don't work well below freezing.
Lithium type batteries from ANY brand work much better below freezing and tend to maintain a good performance, as well as above freezing temps.

B&D VPX is just an example of my own experience. In fact, VPX uses VERY good and high quality A123 cells which I found to work very well even at -10C or lower. So VPX is an example of Lithium working well below freezing.

One winter I tried a flashlight using standard AA NiMH. In fact I loaded 9 charged cells, so it had plenty of juice. After about 5 min light diminished and then light died. I could clearly see low temperature degrading cell performance. I didn't even try any of my NiCd powered tools.

Sometimes its hard to articulate what I want to say. Basically if the B&D did OK in cold I would expect higher end NiMH's like enloops to do better since B&D is low end stuff.

 

[DM51]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

2 similar threads merged.

 

[MorePower]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Sometimes its hard to articulate what I want to say. Basically if the B&D did OK in cold I would expect higher end NiMH's like enloops to do better since B&D is low end stuff.

The problem is you are comparing Lithium Ion cells (B&D) to NiMH cells, so it's not a valid point to make in this case, whether or not Black and Decker is "low end." The chemistry of the cells is the deciding factor in this case, as far as cold temperature performance.

 

[bltkmt]

Bump for a slightly different question. I have an outdoor thermometer sensor here in CT that runs on a 9v battery. Alkalines don't do great in the winter, so was looking at some other chemistry 9v to try. My initial thought was a 9v rechargeable lithium...but not sure that rechargeable lithiums last in cold climates as well as primary lithiums?

 

[Light Sabre]

There are lithium 9V batteries that are can found near the smoke detectors in some hardware stores. Found some at a Lowes.

Amazon.com: Ultra Life Battery UPVL-X 10 Year Smoke Detector Battery: Home Improvement