Car stalled tonight, any guesses why?

[BIGIRON]

Probably both. The big boys say that using premium in a vehicle not designed for it makes no difference but I think it does. May be wishful thinking, but every now when a tank is mostly empty I'll put in 10 or 15 gallons of premium (can't afford a full tank!!).

 

[Radio]

I think premium gas contains more detergents as well as octane

 

[sbebenelli]

I guess I take offense to some of the comments that has been made in this thread. I would like to educate some of the posters.

I'd like to start with some of the info here could be what's wrong but some mentioned is flat out wrong and shows me why it's best to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

Let me introduce myself first....I have worked at a father son auto repair shop all my life. 20 + years. Im a technician not a mechanic. We are a two man shop that has a very good reputation and we are the oldest repair shop in our town. Other than the yellow pages we don't do any advertising and stay very busy from repeat customers and word of mouth.

It is very hard to diagnose a car just because it was hard starting or died. To do so would just be guessing to say the least. As far as making comments about shops "ripping you off" to "read codes" is ridiculous. Our scan tool cost us $8000 and has two updates a year at $895 per update. Do you get the idea that our "code reader" does more than the $40 code reader? That's because a code reader is just that a code reader. Can't check ABS, transmission, airbag, or body control modules. Doesn't have Bi-directional controls for a lot of the systems on a car. Just because a car has a O2 code how do you know it's the O2 sensor? A number of factors could give a O2 code and not be related to the O2 sensor. You need to be able to look at the data stream to see the sensor values. You need to be trained & experienced to know what these readings mean. You need lab scopes to check these sensors so you know that's what it really needs. Do you know how many times we have had Autozone customers come to us that had their codes read and put on whatever part the code said to find out it wasn't that part at all?

Our shop rate is $60. In no way are we making $60 an hour, but that's what the uneducated wants to think. We easily spend $800-$1000 a month on tools and equipment. Probably more if I where to figure it out. $1000's for shop insurance, can't forget about health insurance that goes up $100's per year. Property taxes $4000. Utilities that keep going up. Oh yea 1000's for training. Building expense. Plus two families that need to eat. I could name a lot more.

As far as not understanding why shops go by flat rate. What other method could we use? Every car is different. The same make car from one year to the next can easily be different. I wouldn't know any other way it could be done.

I do understand that there are a number of shops that aren't honest and maybe this is why some of you feel the way you do.

 

[sbebenelli]

I want to clarify that when I say uneducated I mean about this topic here. Not in general. :wave:

 

[will]

I have used the $40 code readers with a degree of success. I do all my own repairs. I have read about people who have been charged lots of money for a simple repair. for example - my 98 VW had a code which indicated that the throttle body had reached it limit. Huh?? some people went to their local VW and spent $800 to have the repair done and code reset. Long story very short, I cleaned the carbon off the throttle body, disconnected the battery for 30 minutes, re-connected everything and the throttle body reset itself. Total time involved was about 1 hour to repair, probably an hour or so for research.

I have been very fortunate in that a few friends are good mechanics. The few times I got stuck - they gave me some additional information to resolve the problem. These mechanics are also very honest and their customers return.

Like any business - there are some that are honest, some that are not. With all the sensors and computer chips in cars, it can be very difficult to determine what the problem is. My experience has been that the sensors are usually the failing item. It is much harder to do 'driveway repairs'

 

[BIGIRON]

Hey Benelli -- you're obviously reaponding to some of my statements. First, let me say I don't see how you can survive on a $60 shop rate. I didn't think we'd seen that for 10 years or more.

I do know how much it costs to run a repair business. I have a very close relationship with a second generation well-regarded indy shop - almost family. I, even now, work for them some when they are swamped.

I believe a person should first take care of their own business. They don't need to come to you to tell them that their gas cap is loose when the check engine light is on. The $40 reader will do that. If that doesn't fix it, then they probably will benefit from your equipment and experience.

You sound like you are a real exception to the rule. That's why I ALWAYS recommend an established indy shop rather than a dealer or franchise. And that's why I bet you have more business than you can handle.

Now I'll wait for the dealers and franchisee's to jump on.

 

[sbebenelli]

Hey Benelli -- you're obviously reaponding to some of my statements. First, let me say I don't see how you can survive on a $60 shop rate. I didn't think we'd seen that for 10 years or more.

I do know how much it costs to run a repair business. I have a very close relationship with a second generation well-regarded indy shop - almost family. I, even now, work for them some when they are swamped.

I believe a person should first take care of their own business. They don't need to come to you to tell them that their gas cap is loose when the check engine light is on. The $40 reader will do that. If that doesn't fix it, then they probably will benefit from your equipment and experience.

You sound like you are a real exception to the rule. That's why I ALWAYS recommend an established indy shop rather than a dealer or franchise. And that's why I bet you have more business than you can handle.

Now I'll wait for the dealers and franchisee's to jump on.

I appreciate your response. Our shop rate is in line with the other shops in town. Some are higher some are lower. The dealerships are higher of coarse.

 

[MarNav1]

I guess I take offense to some of the comments that has been made in this thread. I would like to educate some of the posters.

I'd like to start with some of the info here could be what's wrong but some mentioned is flat out wrong and shows me why it's best to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

Let me introduce myself first....I have worked at a father son auto repair shop all my life. 20 + years. Im a technician not a mechanic. We are a two man shop that has a very good reputation and we are the oldest repair shop in our town. Other than the yellow pages we don't do any advertising and stay very busy from repeat customers and word of mouth.

It is very hard to diagnose a car just because it was hard starting or died. To do so would just be guessing to say the least. As far as making comments about shops "ripping you off" to "read codes" is ridiculous. Our scan tool cost us $8000 and has two updates a year at $895 per update. Do you get the idea that our "code reader" does more than the $40 code reader? That's because a code reader is just that a code reader. Can't check ABS, transmission, airbag, or body control modules. Doesn't have Bi-directional controls for a lot of the systems on a car. Just because a car has a O2 code how do you know it's the O2 sensor? A number of factors could give a O2 code and not be related to the O2 sensor. You need to be able to look at the data stream to see the sensor values. You need to be trained & experienced to know what these readings mean. You need lab scopes to check these sensors so you know that's what it really needs. Do you know how many times we have had Autozone customers come to us that had their codes read and put on whatever part the code said to find out it wasn't that part at all?

Our shop rate is $60. In no way are we making $60 an hour, but that's what the uneducated wants to think. We easily spend $800-$1000 a month on tools and equipment. Probably more if I where to figure it out. $1000's for shop insurance, can't forget about health insurance that goes up $100's per year. Property taxes $4000. Utilities that keep going up. Oh yea 1000's for training. Building expense. Plus two families that need to eat. I could name a lot more.

As far as not understanding why shops go by flat rate. What other method could we use? Every car is different. The same make car from one year to the next can easily be different. I wouldn't know any other way it could be done.

I do understand that there are a number of shops that aren't honest and maybe this is why some of you feel the way you do.

+1 I would pretty much agree with this. I wasn't sure how far to go with my comments but I know diagnosing without eguipment and not having the vehicle in front of you is pretty tough. I just didn't want to give the impression that the semi-skilled repair person couldn't repair anything without a shop. There are lots of things that basic maintenence and troubleshooting will take care of. It depends on a number of factors as you state. I wish I could buy a nice ALDL or a breakout box etc but its too much money. I hope he can fix his Saturn on his own. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[geepondy]

Thus far the car has not repeated the problem. It still was kind of scary, just stalling out of the blue. Luckily I was driving in a parking lot at Costco rather then cruising down the highway in the third lane of a busy four lane interstate. Like I said it wasn't running or idling rough before this happened and had just been thru a Saturn tuneup.

 

[geepondy]

Sbebenelli, if my car ever breaks down in Iowa I'll look you up. You undercut the Saturn dealership by $25/hr. One thing I'm interested in and perhaps you can answer, is your book rate source the same as the dealers? Saturn charged me for 5.5 hours to change my intake manifold gasket which only took them three hours. If you ever have a chance maybe you could look up your book rate for the same job? It's an intake manifold gasket for a 2002 Saturn SL1, automatic transmission. I wish I knew a local mechanic I could trust.

I guess I take offense to some of the comments that has been made in this thread. I would like to educate some of the posters.

I'd like to start with some of the info here could be what's wrong but some mentioned is flat out wrong and shows me why it's best to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

Let me introduce myself first....I have worked at a father son auto repair shop all my life. 20 + years. Im a technician not a mechanic. We are a two man shop that has a very good reputation and we are the oldest repair shop in our town. Other than the yellow pages we don't do any advertising and stay very busy from repeat customers and word of mouth.

It is very hard to diagnose a car just because it was hard starting or died. To do so would just be guessing to say the least. As far as making comments about shops "ripping you off" to "read codes" is ridiculous. Our scan tool cost us $8000 and has two updates a year at $895 per update. Do you get the idea that our "code reader" does more than the $40 code reader? That's because a code reader is just that a code reader. Can't check ABS, transmission, airbag, or body control modules. Doesn't have Bi-directional controls for a lot of the systems on a car. Just because a car has a O2 code how do you know it's the O2 sensor? A number of factors could give a O2 code and not be related to the O2 sensor. You need to be able to look at the data stream to see the sensor values. You need to be trained & experienced to know what these readings mean. You need lab scopes to check these sensors so you know that's what it really needs. Do you know how many times we have had Autozone customers come to us that had their codes read and put on whatever part the code said to find out it wasn't that part at all?

Our shop rate is $60. In no way are we making $60 an hour, but that's what the uneducated wants to think. We easily spend $800-$1000 a month on tools and equipment. Probably more if I where to figure it out. $1000's for shop insurance, can't forget about health insurance that goes up $100's per year. Property taxes $4000. Utilities that keep going up. Oh yea 1000's for training. Building expense. Plus two families that need to eat. I could name a lot more.

As far as not understanding why shops go by flat rate. What other method could we use? Every car is different. The same make car from one year to the next can easily be different. I wouldn't know any other way it could be done.

I do understand that there are a number of shops that aren't honest and maybe this is why some of you feel the way you do.

 

[sbebenelli]

Sbebenelli, if my car ever breaks down in Iowa I'll look you up. You undercut the Saturn dealership by $25/hr. One thing I'm interested in and perhaps you can answer, is your book rate source the same as the dealers? Saturn charged me for 5.5 hours to change my intake manifold gasket which only took them three hours. If you ever have a chance maybe you could look up your book rate for the same job? It's an intake manifold gasket for a 2002 Saturn SL1, automatic transmission. I wish I knew a local mechanic I could trust.

We use Mitchell for flat rate. I'm not sure what the dealerships use. If it has power steering it shows 4.2 hours.

 

[BIGIRON]

Geepondy, find someone who drives a well-kept older car or pickup and ask them who does their work. Betcha it'll be an indy who's been around for a while.