Crimson Trace Internal Policy - Civilians are not allowed to purchase IR Devices such

[idleprocess]

I think the short answer is to buy elsewhere.

While there is some distant, hypothetical chance for an "in the wrong hands" scenario, the absurd cost of even Gen 3 night vision gear makes it pretty unlikely, thus the liability concern is only costing them sales (could also be a marketing thing for "agency" buyers - restricting it sends some message that this is the good stuff). A serious terrorist or criminal organization seeking to do something nefarious has the resources to get around the laws and/or sales restrictions.

As best I can tell from what I've seen and read, none of the NV tech in production is so good as to let the user see in the dark with the ease of a cat. I'm not sure I can see the appeal of this particular product to the average civilian unless they've also sunk a princely sum into an extremely nice pair of night vision goggles running mid 4 figures or more.

 

[MatthewSB]

Oh come on, if there really was a military insurrection, do you think a few people owning NVG and IR/UV lasers is going to make any difference?

Probably not. But why screw with people, telling them that they can't have something, if it's not going to hurt anything?

You bring up a good special case, and for those that are on the border, why not provide them special permits commensurate with the greater danger they are in?

...Because we shouldn't have to ask permission to own something harmless like a light emitter. Happy slaves are happy doing what they are told. Free people feel otherwise.

Who would decide who was worthy, and who wasn't?

On the other side of any law is a pair of handcuffs and a gun. Irresponsible people are always eager to make more laws telling others what they can and cannot do without thinking about the consequences of their rules.

 

[idleprocess]

You bring up a good special case, and for those that are on the border, why not provide them special permits commensurate with the greater danger they are in? Not everyone needs the same level of protection. We don't let just anyone buy certain lasers, weapons, rocket fuel, explosives, etc. .... just because they want them.

Actually, the issue here is an internal company sales policy. The "dangerous" item" in this particular scenario (beyond the pretty ordinary pistol the laser mounts to) is the extremely expensive night vision device that the IR laser needs in order to be effective. As far as an IR laser goes, sub-milliwatt output isn't going to present a hazard to anyone.

 

[dirtech]

Have to agree with the retailer on this one too.

Realistically there is no non-military/anti-criminal reason that someone needs an IR laser/scope combination. That has one and only one purpose to kill people in a purely discreet manner. That goes well beyond defending oneself.

It is good to know there are people out there that put ethics over every easy buck.

Semiman

I can only sigh at this mentality.

 

[sedstar]

quote:"Have to agree with the retailer on this one too...Realistically there is no non-military/anti-criminal reason that someone needs an IR laser/scope combination. That has one and only one purpose to kill people in a purely discreet manner. That goes well beyond defending oneself...It is good to know there are people out there that put ethics over every easy buck."

wild hogs will eat you out of HOUSE and HOME in certain situations. They breed like MICE and live in the woods surrounding your BUSINESS (farm). They trample and root up as much or more crops as they actuaally EAT. They also are chasing out all the other desireable game animals.

animals not "shooting back" is funny, but... have you ever stood within a short range of a 600 pound WILD PIG with the big tusks? Large dominant males can be exceedingly dangerous.

coyotes? they rip the CALVES out of teh MOTHER while they are being BORN, and rip the mothers underbelly up as well. You would HATE to come upon the PITIFUL LOOK of one of your herd in this slow painful death.

do you have a pet cat? (I do...) I absolutely TREASURE my pet... when i go fishing down at the river valley, I can HEAR across th river high pitched SCREAM that is obviously a small animal screaming for its LIFE while it is being held down, ripped opn, and eaten ALIVE.

THEN you hear the yote pack calls...

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yotes and wild hogs will put you out of business if you dont get midevil on their @$$... not even counting all the coons and possums and such coming for a free handout. Farmers, ranchers, and game preserves lose thousands or tens of thousands of dollars a year each in bd cases...

uh... YEAH, if someone wants to spend 5 GRAND on a night shooting setup? ore power to them... and if its just for a fun or cool factor? More power to them, I say...

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i think a lot of people thing night hog hunting and yote hunting is mainly done for "fun", and it sure is done for fun in a lot of cases... BUT... to large farm or rancher or game preserve? Its "mission critical".

 

[Alex E]

As an NV dealer and wildlife control manager (paid to hog hunt weekly) for a ranch here in TX I don't get CT's logic and who cares. If your pistol has a light mount just get an IR clip on which has windage and elevation adjustments. Lasermax is the name of the company & it's about $300 for a tiny slim IR laser that will work perfectly on an AR as well. Guys who can't spend on a DBAL or restricted laser/illuminator can use these. I've had three occasions where I walked up on a wounded hog and had it jump straight up squealing pissed and scare me sh_tless. Thank god I had a competent hand gunner nearby. Never walk up on a hog in the dark that's not laying on its side. I have not read all the squabbling above but here in TX feral swine will destroy an entire field of rye grass in a night, costing thousands of dollars plus replacement cost if it was feed for cattle. There's no stopping them unfortunately but my business is to help hunters and ranchers level the playing field. I have access to the best equipment and buy it to help keep the feral hogs under control. It's a business for me and it's critical to the rancher.

 

[zespectre]

Have to agree with the retailer on this one too.

Realistically there is no non-military/anti-criminal reason that someone needs an IR laser/scope combination. That has one and only one purpose to kill people in a purely discreet manner. That goes well beyond defending oneself.

It is good to know there are people out there that put ethics over every easy buck.

Semiman

As an intellectual exercise:

I guess that would really depend on what (or whom) you are defending yourself against. If you accept that the true purpose of the Second Amendment is to act as a check on Government Tyranny, then maintaining some sort of an equality of force is a pretty good reason.

I suppose a desire to maintain the element of surprise (up until the first shot) in the event of a home invasion might be another legitimate reason.

I know ranchers who use night vision and related equipment to protect their livestock and to ensure a clean kill on coyote and other predators.