Dereelight bashing :)

[Preben]

My experiences pretty much match those of StandardBattery. I got a CL1H v2 and it's a nice light with good machining and nice anodizing. But looking at engineering and reliability, it's surely not a Surefire. A good bit behind Wolf Eyes too.
Electrically, it's mediocre. The current flows through bare alminium threads and via the reflector. Furthermore, the force from the battery tube on the pill, counteracts the force between the reflector and the pill, making it possible for them to balance leaving the pill "free floating". Consequently, it only tends to get worse with lubing. So-so engineering. Flicker, flicker.

The "reverse polarity protection" on the two level drop-in is... well... perhaps on a millisecond level or something. I've popped two drivers - a quick tap on the tailcap switch resulted in instant ozone smell.

So while it's a good looking light, the output and tint of the LEDs have been excellent, the beam very good for outdoor use and Alan's customer service flawless(!!), they're not there yet.

They got a lot of things right and it's a totally decent first attempt, and with their responsiveness I'm sure they have a bright future. I'm looking forward to their future offerings and will surely buy from them again. But presently it just isn't anything to wet your pants over.

Just my € .02

 

[bspofford]

Judging a manufacturer based on one light is nothing less than anecdote. To be scientific, you would need a reasonable sample size. Let's say that a reasonable sample size is 25 lights, but what fool buys that many lights? Me. I have more than a reasonable sample size of many quality brands. I would say that Fenix, Wolf-Eyes, Surefire, Dereelight, Lumapower, and another half dozen manufacturers produce high quality lights equivalent to Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, and other high quality auto manufacturers. All lights and all automobiles have some QA issues, but the good companies take care of their customers. Three of many new Fenix lights that I purchased in the past few months had problems requiring replacment or repair, but the rate of problems is still small. Both my Toyota Landcruiser and Volvo C70-T recently had problems, but the dealers and manufacturers took good care of me. Even though the Volvo was out of warranty, Volvo paid for towing and another $1,000 for a new fuel injector computer. I have enough lights to compare, and I would say that the quality of Dereelight is equal to or better than Toyota, Volvo, Mercedes, and most of the lights mentioned in this thread.

 

[WadeF]

I've had no issues with my CL1H v2.0. I've had no issues with the switch, but I can see how a better switch could be used. I've had no problem with the modules and the body tube and reflector all making proper contact, no flickering. I think the CL1H v3.0 has improvements with the way things fit together, heat syncing, etc. Mine just came into NYC, so there is a small chance I'll have it tomorrow, if not, Monday.

So what is Surefire quality? Bad tail switches out of the box? 2-6 month waits for a replacement, that may also not work. U2's with donut holes. Even Surefire has their issues and isn't perfect.

While the Dereelight's switch may not be as good as a Surefire switch (a working one), at least mine works, and if there is a probelm Alan will get me a new part quickly.

I have no problems selecting modes with the 3-stage and 5-stage modules using the tail switch. I haven't used the 2-stage much, since I found the other modules to be better for what I do. With the 2-stage the twisting from HI to LOW worked fine for me.

As people have pointed out, the Dereelights pass current through the threads, so if you coat them with sometihng that won't conduct you may get into trouble. I use deoxit's contact lubricant:

https://www.fenix-store.com/product...d=237&osCsid=ee28fb6bf50293b558aba2675442c574

 

[LightScene]

I'm quite happy with the quality and usefullness of my Dereelight with the 5 mode module. Still, it can be problematic if you suddenly need to switch from low or medium to high. I work around that problem by leaving the Dereelight in high and using a different light for low or medium.

 

[orbital]

+

LightScene, have you tried keeping the little screw in the tailcap, it takes up play and helps reduce battery movement so less chance changing modes by itself.

double post.

 

[woodrow]

Surefire it ain't in terms of body workmanship and UI. Not even Olight.

There is the problem... I just looked at a SF L5 and it blows away all of my light in terms of "quality feel" Now it they would just get off their butts (sorry rant) and make a cree that would produce more than 75+ lumans and throw more than 50 yards, we all could quit buying as many Chinese lights.

In the mean time, its hard to justify the $189 for a L5 when Deree lights, Tiablo's and LP's blow them out of the water in terms of performance. Yes I miss SF quality and craftsmanship, but fortunately, threads are not that hard to clean.

 

[WadeF]

I'm quite happy with the quality and usefullness of my Dereelight with the 5 mode module. Still, it can be problematic if you suddenly need to switch from low or medium to high.

What? You must not have figured out how the UI works. I can switch from low or medium to high in the blink of an eye. Maybe it's all my years of playing video games, but I can tap through the modes in a flash.

So instead you use a light on low, then when you need high, you put that light away and get out your Dereelight that's pre-set to high and you find that faster than "TAP TAP" in a fraction of a second to go from low to high?

 

[bspofford]

A number of high quality lights have mediocre performance, inferior features, and are not compatible with standard protected 3.7V Li-ion 18650 or 16340 (RCR123A) batteries. How useful is a beautifully crafted light with perfect threads if it isn't very bright, has a tube too narrow for a protected Li-ion cell, or can't handle 4.2V? Surefire and Fenix don't seem to be as responsive to these issues as DeereLight, and little companies generally do a better job of listening to customers. Perhaps an occasional DeereLight needs some thread lube, but you can count on Alan to give you a well-constructed light with great features that is compatible with standard protected 3.7 Li-ion cells.

 

[PayBack]

The smooth won't out throw a Tiablo

Is this true? I thought Fastcar said it does? I prefer the Tiablo due to it's ability to also use 123's as well as 18650s so that's good news.

 

[Mercaptan]

Is this true? I thought Fastcar said it does? I prefer the Tiablo due to it's ability to also use 123's as well as 18650s so that's good news.

I believe he's talking about the CL1H, not the DBS.

 

[MikeLip]

OK, I went and bought a tub of Mobil 1 synthetic grease and lubed the threads on both the head and tailcap. Just dip your finger into it and work it in - don't be chicken, it wipes off with a paper towel. The head now turns very smoothly as does the tailcap. But it has NOT fixed the flickering and flaky mode changing, along with the going-out problem. I didn't expect it would, but at least now the light *feels* nice!

I also greased the threads on my 30 year old beat to crap TruGrit. Nice!

Dereelight has contacted me about this (they are apparently monitoring the thread) and offered to do what it takes to make it right, including replacing the head. So at this point all I can say is the light has potential, but it's not what I was hoping for. I do think they have a great product here and if they can work the bugs out of this one for me, I can see myself getting a DBS.

On a side note, the grease comes in a one pound tub for $6. I now have enough grease to service all my lights until the sun burns out. Which as a genuine flashaholic, I am looking forward to!

 

[Monocrom]

So what is Surefire quality? Bad tail switches out of the box? 2-6 month waits for a replacement, that may also not work. U2's with donut holes. Even Surefire has their issues and isn't perfect.


As people have pointed out, the Dereelights pass current through the threads, so if you coat them with sometihng that won't conduct you may get into trouble....

Surefire quality = Going to keep on working even if covered in dirt & mud. Like Frankenstein's monster, short of a shotgun blast at close range, it's just gonna keep coming. As far as bad tailcap switches right out of the box, none of my 7 Surefires has suffered from a single tailcap problem. All of mine are as reliable as a Honda Accord. All light companies have issues. Tailcaps seem to be Surefire's issue. But I think the problem gets a bit exaggerated. Waiting longer than a few weeks seems to mostly affect international customers.

Forget donut holes in U2s. I've heard that problem exists with all of Surefire's LED lights. But once again, never experienced it myself. The donut hole issue seems to pop up with regards to the L4 and L5 models. I own examples of both lights. (My L5 was a display model). But no donut holes in my lights!

Surefire's main problem with the U2 are the significant percentage that didn't work right out of the box! And Surefire's rather poor way of handling the problem.... especially with international customers. I honestly took the U2 off my Want List, and won't recommend one to others. The other Surefires are a different story.

Still, when it comes to rock-solid durability and just plain works requirements; you'd be hard pressed to find a light that works like that, from another company.

BTW, I'm not very sophisticated when it comes to lubing threads. Mostly use old fashioned Vasoline. Will that be a problem with the CL1H I'm considering ordering?

 

[WadeF]

OK, I went and bought a tub of Mobil 1 synthetic grease and lubed the threads on both the head and tailcap.

Won't that screw up the connections? The CL1H makes electrical connections through the threads of the body tube and the head. If you cover everything with something that won't conduct you'll just foul up the light and I wouldn't expect it to work and I would expect the problems you are mentioning.

Like I said before, I use deoxit's contact lubricant to lubricate and ensure good conductivity.

 

[WadeF]

Still, when it comes to rock-solid durability and just plain works requirements; you'd be hard pressed to find a light that works like that, from another company.

Well, it depends on what features you are looking for. I'd rather have my CL1H over a Surefire incan that could blow a bulb when I need it to work, burn through batteries, etc.

Surefire offers LED lights, but they are behind when it comes to lumen output.

I'd rather take a light that may not be as overall reliable as a Surefire if it means I gain better performance when it comes to battery light, total light output, various modes, easy upgrades, easy reflector swaps, different tailcap options, forward clicky, clip, etc. The CL1H offers a lot of nice features, but it may not be for everyone. If you don't mind tinkering a bit with your light to ensure all the contacts are clean and lubed, don't mind opening it up to swap reflectors, maybe change a switch at some point, etc, it's a great light. A recent CPF poll showed the over whelming majority of regulars are into lights for the fun of it, not because they are cops, military, etc. The CL1H may not be the light you take to war (although I'd want mine with me), but for what the average Joe goes through it's great. Also I always have a back up light, so if it would fail on me, I wouldn't be in the dark.

I'm looking forward to future improvements by Dereelight. They are off to a good start, and they are very interested in our feedback, so if weaknesses are pointed out, they will do what they can to improve on them.

I think people also need to keep in mind we're talking about a $60-70 flashlight, depending on the module. It's a lot of light and a lot of quality for that kind of money. So if a $60-70 light has a switch that isn't Surefire quality, and a $300 Surefire U2 can come with a bad tailswitch, I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Monocrom]

Surefire offers LED lights, but they are behind when it comes to lumen output.

True.... But to a lesser degree than expected. Surefire measures their lumens out the front. (So does Pelican. I've heard HDS does too). One example would be the inca versions of the SF G2 and SL Scorpion. I own both. Like both. But my 65 lumen G2 is clearly brighter than my 114 lumen Scorpion. (Sadly, Streamlight doesn't measure output out the front).

The 100 lumens from my SF L4 and L5 is 100 actual lumens. Both easily outperform some LED lights from other companies with rated 200 lumens.

I guess extreme reliability is at the top of my list, especially for lights I use as primary EDCs. But I know not everyone feels that way.

Also, I'd really like to get your take on using Vasoline for Dereelight threads.... Bad idea?

 

[WadeF]

Also, I'd really like to get your take on using Vasoline for Dereelight threads.... Bad idea?

I'm not an expert there, yet. I'm not sure what the Dereelight o-rings are made from, if they are petroleum, then using petroleum on them might not be good.

I use that Nylogel stuff. I put it in places where the current doesn't have to travel. For the places current has to travel I use the deoxit lubricant, available from fenix-store.com.

As far as lumens, most rate buld/led lumens, SF rates out the front.

Saying an LED light rated at 200 lumens won't outperform a Surefire rated 100 is a bit much. Generally you have a 30% loss or so, so a 200 lumen LED is probably putting around 140 lumens out the front. Example, Chevro used his integrating sphere to estimate the Fenix P3D, 160 LED lumens, to output 120-130 lumens. The P3D Rebel100 rated at 200 LED lumens, is putting out around 140-150lumens out the front. The P3D Q5 (modded by Fenix store, before the production versions) didn't have a rating, but a Q5 driven at 1A does around 250lumens at the LED, and Chevro estimated 180 lumens out the front.

I have had the same 3 configurations and I did my own testing and came up with similar results.

Surefire is going for reliability, and to perform for certain applications, so they may not push their LED's as far as they can for lumens, because they're not trying to win over that market.

Also if we recall the "My U2 is brighter than a Fenix P1D-CE" topic where post after post, beam shot after beam shot, showed the 135 LED Lumen P1D was putting out more lumens than the U2.

I'm looking forward to the new 3-stage Q5 modules as they should put putting out around 180-200 lumens out the front (Surefire lumens) of the CL1H. The nice thing with the 3-stage is it holds the same brightness through the life of the battery.

 

[Monocrom]

I'm not an expert there, yet. I'm not sure what the Dereelight o-rings are made from, if they are petroleum, then using petroleum on them might not be good.

Thanks for responding, Wade. I appreciate it. Just a few hours ago, I read a post from someone who owns a Dereelight. Can't recall the topic, but it was mentioned that the O-rings are made from silicone. I guess Vasoline should be okay.... Hopefully.

Chevro is a respected CPFer. I have no doubt his numbers are accurate. Could be that some of those 200 lumen LEDs were just plain falsely advertised. Emitter lumens are often 2/3 or half that of Out the Front numbers. I recently decided against getting an SL UltraStinger. Its 295 lumens seem impressive. But some owners have said the actual lumens numbers are about 160. Ironically, a stock MagCharger is about twice as bright, or about 320 lumens. (Maglite doesn't seem to care about publishing lumen numbers). :shrug:

Thanks again for responding, Wade. You might not be an expert.... yet.
But I respect and appreciate your take on lights and knives.

 

[javafool]

I'm not an expert there, yet. I'm not sure what the Dereelight o-rings are made from, if they are petroleum, then using petroleum on them might not be good.

I use that Nylogel stuff. I put it in places where the current doesn't have to travel. For the places current has to travel I use the deoxit lubricant, available from fenix-store.com.

I bought a tube of Nyogel from Lighthound and use it to lube my flashlights. Nyogel 760G and 779ZC are not electrically conductive, but they will NOT impeed the flow of electricity through the threads.
I am an engineer where we build military communications equipment. We have cases where we fill high density minature connector contacts with Nyogel to waterproof them then plug the connectors together where absolute electrical continuity is required. Really pretty amazing stuff. We have had a coupl of people whose skin is sensitive to Nyogel, but that is fairly rare.

Deoxit is totally different but is excellent for aiding electrical conductivity through the threads.

PS. I am a totally satisfied Dereelight customer, BTW. I feel they offer a lot for a reasonable, but rapidly increasing price tag.

 

[WadeF]

PS. I am a totally satisfied Dereelight customer, BTW. I feel they offer a lot for a reasonable, but rapidly increasing price tag.

I think the reason for the price increases are because of the new 3-stage modules with Q5's. The Q5's are certainly going to cost more than Q2's, Q4's, etc.

 

[WadeF]

Could be that some of those 200 lumen LEDs were just plain falsely advertised. Emitter lumens are often 2/3 or half that of Out the Front numbers.

You have that backwards. The LED/emitter/bulb lumens is the lumens at the LED/emitter/bulb and will always be higher than the lumens coming out of the front of the light. You lose lumens from the reflector, and through the protective lens/window.

It's not false advertising, you just have to be aware of what specs they are quoting. It's more accurate to quote the LED's lumens because the LED manufacture has gone through the trouble of measuring the output of their LED's at various currents. So if you get a Q5 and drive it at 350ma, you know it's going to be putting out 107-115 lumens, or whatever it is.

So when Fenix says 200 lumens for a P3D Rebel100, it is because that's the lumens a Rebel100 should be doing at the current they are driving it at.

So a good rule of thumb is if you know the emitter lumens, knock 20-30% off and you should have the approx out the front lumens.

200 - 20% = 160 lumens
200 - 30% = 140 lumens

135 - 20% = 108 lumens
135 - 30% = 94.50 lumens

You could try out a Fenix P3D Q5 and see how it compares to the Surefire LED's. A CL1H Q5 may not put out more lumens than the P3D Q5, but with a larger reflector, a SMO one, it will out throw it.