Destructive Incan Bulb Tests - Updated 8/27/2010 (Newer Info Added)

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

I actually did two tests with every bulb so far, just to make sure I had correlated results....and to finish off the night, just posting an IRC 50W. I am not going to do run times on these beauties, but I did test it twice for correlation.
 

jimjones3630

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

7.8vbulb to 5761. Wooo hooo, that is some tuff bulbs Lux.
where did you get yours?
 

DMC

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

It's interesting that your current measurements for the 64623 and 64625 did not agree with the manufactures designed specifications. The rerate formula for current gives a much better prediction when using your measured currents at 12 volt.

64623 (16.5V/12V)^.55 * 8.9 = 10.6A instead of 9.92A, LL measured 10.7A at 16.5V
64625 (14V/12V)^.55 * 9.2 = 10.01A instead of 9.07A, LL measured 9.9A at 14V

Any plans on testing the 62138?
 
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LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Plasmaman, all done! Thanks for that GE bulb

JJ, I just ordered them from TopBulb. I did every bulb twice to verify that my tube alignment, voltage/amps/lumens were close...and was amazed at how tight all values were....including the two Philips. Remember, I'm stepping up the voltage after taking reading...so no spikes. This is a linear power supply (don't know if the more typical "switch" PS matters).

DMC, that is actually a known issue primarily with Osram. I had some long discussions with AWR and he wanted me to specifically go back (with a 3rd bulb if I had one) and measure the default amp using my Fluke and a 100A=100mV shunt (in photo below), which I did tonight and revised images to indicate. All Hotrater predictions are based on the default values, so this was important. Now the challenge is to figure out the formulas to make spreadsheet reflect reality.

But as of tonight, I have tested 19 unique bulbs...most of them had two runs done to flash...so that's about 35 bulbs....and none exploded on me. :eek: I reformatted the display organization on top so it easier to find results.

I got this shunt from here.

 
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Esthan

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Lux You are absolutely crazy !

Wonderful tests ! Keep it going :D
 

DMC

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

I don't think the vendors advertised current at 12V for either 64623 or the 64625 are right. Do both bulbs really have a current at 12V of exactly 8.33A?

And if you use your measured current at 12V the Hotrate formula does a lot better predicting the measured current.

NewPicture2.jpg


Also, thanks for measurements on the 62138 and all the other bulbs.

Awesome!
 
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plasmaman

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

So the GE 34711 is a viable alternative to the 64430 - and it seems more resilient to voltage - in fact I saw 13v on one on my bench supply and it did not flash, but that must have been a freak!
I just built a 3D with 3xemoli for this bulb, and its great!
Great work Lux, and really useful info for later on when AW gets the reg switch finalised.
I suppose in an ideal world, having established the 'flash point' of these bulbs on a stepped voltage basis, it would be great to know the cold start flash point for each bulb - in the real world that's what folks are going to be doing with their lights, and if AW's switch is not user configurable(?) and he has to set it, it would be good to know this so that the optimum voltage could be specified when ordering.
Hey AW - send more bulbs to Lux!
 

jimjones3630

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Lux, on the bench you won't get amp inrush at turn on assume your starting at 0.0v at turn on. You have a soft start method in your testing.

I used the same method with a linear bence power and stated so in my posted results but very impressive 5761 7.8v not doubting you. Never heard of a 5761 going 7.8v soft start or not.

I wonder if repeating the test twice with same type bulb could give the same results and still be off. I'm thinking an instrument out of calibration would give every measurement taken the same erroneous findings.


Plasmaman, all done! Thanks for that GE bulb

JJ, I just ordered them from TopBulb. I did every bulb twice to verify that my tube alignment, voltage/amps/lumens were close...and was amazed at how tight all values were....including the two Philips. Remember, I'm stepping up the voltage after taking reading...so no spikes. This is a linear power supply (don't know if the more typical "switch" PS matters).

DMC, that is actually a known issue primarily with Osram. I had some long discussions with AWR and he wanted me to specifically go back (with a 3rd bulb if I had one) and measure the default amp using my Fluke and a 100A=100mV shunt (in photo below), which I did tonight and revised images to indicate. All Hotrater predictions are based on the default values, so this was important. Now the challenge is to figure out the formulas to make spreadsheet reflect reality.

But as of tonight, I have tested 19 unique bulbs...most of them had two runs done to flash...so that's about 35 bulbs....and none exploded on me. :eek: I reformatted the display organization on top so it easier to find results.

I got this shunt from here.

 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

DMC, AWR reminded me that Osram didn't specify the amps at default voltage, we just divided Watts/Default Voltage and assumed...here is a typical link from them. So we could never have been accurate without knowing the measured default voltage amps. :thumbsup:

The "predicted" values of 100W/12V=8.3A, but you can see the 64625 has a measured of 9.1A and 64623 of 8.8A. Eventually a new Hotrater spreadsheet will include actual default values and more accurate formulas to reflect real overdrive results.

Plasmaman, without a soft starting driver your cold start reality is accurate. However, trying to reproduce a realistic cold start seems very hard to control variables. You have issues of the test platform/switch resistance, battery factors (type/combination/manufacturer quality/age of cell/internal resistance/hookup resistance/level of charge), behaviour of bench power supply vs. batteries on startup...it just got too hard to make sense out of.

I was also thinking of putting a couple bulbs in AW's D starting direct driver just to see how the lux measures at the same voltages, and on his low/med/high power settings. But, remember AW's (& AWR's) are soft starting, so these flash points should still be realistic. The more important issue is the tested run time...to see how that holds up.

I think measuring 2 representative WA bulbs against their predicted life points would likely extrapolate well for all other WA's, since their numbers were in better correlation with their website rating predictor. Then I would likely just do two run times each of Osrams: 64430, 64275, & a couple of the 12V'ers. Will likely test predicted run times of 5761, C-43, and Tungsram 64430 (whenever I get them from Slovenia)!

JJ, that is how I tested, turning dial from zero, and switching to fine tune dial when I was getting close to target voltage. Then I stepped up from tested voltage to higher levels in chart without going back to 0V each time.

Any variation from readings you got with 5761 could have been from resistance differences between setups, and I tried to keep mine as simple as possible...14AWG wire soldered to test lead plugs, other end soldered to KIU bipin leads, & shrinkwrapped solder connections.

I did verify the reported Amps on default and several other points for each bulb with my Fluke + 100A=100mV shunt, and Fluke tested voltage on a few bulbs with wires on bipins to make sure it correlated with the display I was reading on Power Supply...which it did.

If there is a real difference (assuming both our test methods and measuring were the same and calibrated), it could always be a manufacturer QA issue from batches to batches. To prove that theory, we would have to exchange new bulbs and see if we each got different readings with other batches.
 

jimjones3630

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Lux Slovenia still subing last order anyway Tungsram 56580 for 64430. Be glad to send you couple 56580 if not get from them or if not ordered yet will send couple to you, just pm your address again.

Your method of soldering all connection is what I didn't do and NL mentioned some time back he had a punny batch of 5761's flashing, forget exactly.

Thanks for clearification on your methodology.

jim

Tungsram 64430 (whenever I get them from Slovenia)!

JJ, that is how I tested, turning dial from zero, and switching to fine tune dial when I was getting close to target voltage. Then I stepped up from tested voltage to higher levels in chart without going back to 0V each time.

Any variation from readings you got with 5761 could have been from resistance differences between setups, and I tried to keep mine as simple as possible...14AWG wire soldered to test lead plugs, other end soldered to KIU bipin leads, & shrinkwrapped solder connections.

I did verify the reported Amps on default and several other points for each bulb with my Fluke + 100A=100mV shunt, and Fluke tested voltage on a few bulbs with wires on bipins to make sure it correlated with the display I was reading on Power Supply...which it did.

If there is a real difference (assuming both our test methods and measuring were the same and calibrated), it could always be a manufacturer QA issue from batches to batches. To prove that theory, we would have to exchange new bulbs and see if we each got different readings with other batches.
 

LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

I have ordered a lot of bulbs from Svetila in the past...maybe 6 orders that all came within 2 weeks. This last order placed on 10/5 for 18 of the Tungsrams (which was the threshold for same postage) never came, and each query met with "wait another week please." If they don't reship this week, then I will dispute credit card....so I'll take you up on the offer for two in the meantime. PM sent!
 

LumenHound

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Outstanding work Lux! This answers so many questions. Your destructive tests will save all of us a wad of cash.

:twothumbs

Thankyou.
 

mdocod

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

this needs to be a sticky in the threads of interest, very good info here.... I love the charts.... easy to read, good layout, job well done, pat yourself on the back a few times!!!
 

petrev

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Hi Lux

Love It ! ! !

One regulated driver (or JM-SST/SSR) for (IRC35), IRC50, IRC65 and 64458

19.5V (6x E-Moli)
349LML - 449LML - 595LML (( Lux Measured Lux ))
! LOLA to WHOLA

or regulate lower for constant output and longer run/life ? ? ?

18.5V (6x A123)
308LML - 395LML - 515LML

17.5V (5x E-Moli)
270LML - 341LML - 442LML

Thanks for all this work
Pete
 
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LuxLuthor

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

I wish they made Emoli/A123 in smaller sizes. I just can't deal with a 5C/5D or 6D for a light. Thanks for all the nice comments!
 

Action

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Great work Lux, I'll further the call for a sticky as this is the kind of to the bleeding edge testing that will get the best from incandescent bulbs.
 

Action

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

The more I look at the data, this should be in a pivot table so that users could arrange the table based on whatever criteria they would like.
 

Aircraft800

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Re: Destructive Incan Bulb Tests

Nice Work LuxLuthor,

I like that GE Bulb you tested, It looks like it is overbuilt or underrated. It sure looks like driving this at 9.6v with 8 High Drain Ni-Mh cells in a 2D host would give a whopping 2200 lumens with a generous 10 Hour lamp life. Nice tactical Blinder!!

(Oh Yea, soft start would be needed like a NTC or AW Driver)

I Think you found a new Hotwire Bulb!!

(Nope, Plasmaman did, I found your post in another thread)
 
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