Does anyone really get 1000 recharge cycles from Eneloop batteries?

[Gauss163]

^^^ Roughly how many cycles do they have? Deep or shallow cycles? How are you measuring capacity, by charge, or discharge? Maybe your usage is not very stressful, e.g. not many cycles, most cycles not very deep, and your devices aren't high current?

 

[Climb14er]

^^^ Roughly how many cycles do they have? Deep or shallow cycles? How are you measuring capacity, by charge, or discharge? Maybe your usage is not very stressful, e.g. not many cycles, most cycles not very deep, and your devices aren't high current?

Every two months, for between 8 to 10 years, I run all of my AA and AAA Eneloops though the R&A cycle. Been doing this like clockwork. Usage is light to moderate for the most part. I am surprised at the only 10% degradation. The capacities remaining are reviewed after each cycle. I've definitely gotten my money's worth and the R&A cycle on the Maha has in my opinion, lengthened the life of the Eneloops. I am impressed.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

You can save the time by tossing them when they start to diminish below what you find acceptable. You don't need an analyzer charge system to tell you exact numbers. It won't matter what it says. They've dropped below what you find acceptable. Just toss them. The numbers are inane if the battery is unsatisfactory.

My time isnt wasted. I know there is nothing I can do about it. So they go to the local Lowe's and get recycled and I go to the walmart across the street and get some more. Top shelf equipment gets the eneloop I have and heavily used regular electronics get the energizer 2300mah cells. They're really good for the money and readily available. I do want more Ladda cells though. They are a bit cheaper and last noticeably longer and mine have an unknown amount of many cycles full dead to full recharge and they aren't letting up yet. So I will probably get a bunch more.

My time is not wasted. I know it's futile to analyze something I can't bring back to brand new fresh from the package new. Toss and replace. Time saved, money saved. The batteries are there for my convenience, not the other way around. Don't want to do your job anymore, you're done. Too easy, for me at least.

Actually when you use batteries in series 2,3,4 etc cells you can have one weak cell drag down the good cell and it makes it hard to find out what is going on some times without waiting for the weak cell to drain and check voltages of all batteries.

 

[Gauss163]

Every two months, for between 8 to 10 years, I run all of my AA and AAA Eneloops though the R&A cycle. Been doing this like clockwork. Usage is light to moderate for the most part. I am surprised at the only 10% degradation. The capacities remaining are reviewed after each cycle. I've definitely gotten my money's worth and the R&A cycle on the Maha has in my opinion, lengthened the life of the Eneloops. I am impressed.

Alas, that doesn't answer any of the questions that I posed.

 

[Climb14er]

Alas, that doesn't answer any of the questions that I posed.

Tough... deal with it!

 

[Gauss163]

Tough... deal with it!

Not to worry, it is easy - not "tough" - to ignore claims without any supporting evidence.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Every two months, for between 8 to 10 years, I run all of my AA and AAA Eneloops though the R&A cycle. Been doing this like clockwork. Usage is light to moderate for the most part. I am surprised at the only 10% degradation. The capacities remaining are reviewed after each cycle. I've definitely gotten my money's worth and the R&A cycle on the Maha has in my opinion, lengthened the life of the Eneloops. I am impressed.

I have a set of 12 year old Eneloops that have only lost an average of 6.1%. However, that's comparing their discharge capacities to a set of new AA Eneloops (after a couple of full cycles). I am assuming that the old Eneloops had similar capacities to current new Eneloops back in 2006.

Other than that, I've only had a couple of bad cells. My worst is down to about 1300mAh, and internal resistance has made it so it can't deliver enough current for max output on high-output 1xAA lights (Zebralight SC5w, Manker T01). Don't know what happened to it, but it's from either 2008 or 2009.

 

[Gauss163]

I have a set of 12 year old Eneloops that have only lost an average of 6.1%. However, that's comparing their discharge capacities to a set of new AA Eneloops (after a couple of full cycles). I am assuming that the old Eneloops had similar capacities to current new Eneloops back in 2006 [...]

Capacity is only meaningful when the associated rate is specified, i.e. they "lost 6%" at what discharge rate? The loss will be slow at low discharge rates, and much higher at higher rates, due to the rapid rise in IR as the cell degrades. For example see the graph below. At the high discharge rate the gen1 eneloop gives about 250 cycles before it degrades to 80% of initial capacity at the 1.7A high discharge rate. But at this point it still yields about 99% of its initial capacity at the slow rate (0.3A). It takes another 150 cycles (to 400 total) before it degrades to 80% at the slow rate. This is because rising IR has much less impact on lower rate discharges. Those are deep=harsh cycles down to 0.9V. Shallower cycles will yield longer life. Because the test was done so rapidly, it doesn't account for calendar life degradation - which will surely have a nontrivial impact on cells a decade old.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I measure with a low 250mA drain. Agreed that at higher drains new cells will perform better. Though, these old cells will still power a Zebralight SC5 just fine. (About a 5 amp drain.) Probably not for nearly as long on max, though I haven't done that test.

In practical terms, most people will probably use their older cells for lower drain applications, or modestly powered lights. So, drain is not as relevant as you make it out. I stick with newer cells for my SC5, because it's the most demanding application. Everything else I use AA cells in, will generally use 1 amp or less, which is fine for old cells.

 

[Gauss163]

I measure with a low 250mA drain. Agreed that at higher drains new cells will perform better. Though, these old cells will still power a Zebralight SC5 just fine [...]

As you can see from the graph I posted, there's no way that older, degraded cells are going to do "just fine" at a 5A rate. They're already degrading quite fast at the 1.7A rate there. Since you measure capacity at such a low rate, you are not properly accounting for the effects of the rapidly increasing IR due to high cycle/calendar life - which play a crucial role for higher rate devices.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

As you can see from the graph I posted, there's no way that older, degraded cells are going to do "just fine" at a 5A rate. They're already degrading quite fast at the 1.7A rate there. Since you measure capacity at such a low rate, you are not properly accounting for the effects of the rapidly increasing IR due to high cycle/calendar life - which play a crucial role for higher rate devices.

1. Your graph is about cycle counts. It clearly shows that with modest cycle counts, old Eneloops do in fact keep up with new Eneloops. Your own evidence contradicts everything you are saying.

2. Even with larger cycle counts, they only take a beating if you use them in high-drain applications. People are not going to use them that way. They'll be retired to more moderate applications, where capacity matters a lot more than drain.

 

[Gauss163]

^^^ I think you misunderstood my point. Of course if you're not pushing the cells hard at all, i.e. low cycles, low rates, low depth then you may well get close to the IEC tests since this is close to their test conditions (that's why I kept asking for those parameters above). But - as I said before - I don't think that is typical use for many users of this forum (or other folks who user higher-drain devices). My comments implicitly presumed interest in such "power user" conditions given that this is a flashlight forum.

 

[Boris74]

Most top brand Nimh cells last years of regular normal use. As in used until they don't power the electronic anymore and blasted back to full charge in 12 hours or less then have it done all over again. Unless charging and discharging is a hobby and you haven't any electronics that use batteries I guess it would be a concern. The way it is for me right now I could trash all my Nimh batteries every month no matter how good they still are I'd still save a crap ton of money compared to buying primaries.

 

[MidnightDistortions]

As some has stated, if you even get one year out of them they are worth it. Under 80% of max capacity or high IR that won't charge in the C9000 or an Eneloop charger is considered crap but they'll work fine in low drain devices.

In fact i still have 13 year old cells that i use in string lights for nightlights and just ambient light, especially during winter where it gets dark at 4pm. Though i have to play musical batteries and use a multimeter to find the dying cells to recharge them and most people would just throw in a good set and forget but then im not most people

 

[Lynx_Arc]

As some has stated, if you even get one year out of them they are worth it. Under 80% of max capacity or high IR that won't charge in the C9000 or an Eneloop charger is considered crap but they'll work fine in low drain devices.

In fact i still have 13 year old cells that i use in string lights for nightlights and just ambient light, especially during winter where it gets dark at 4pm. Though i have to play musical batteries and use a multimeter to find the dying cells to recharge them and most people would just throw in a good set and forget but then im not most people

The big enemy of LSD nimh is losing the "L" in LSD, turning into High Self Discharge cells that discharge too fast with too little capacity to even be useful in low drain devices over long periods of time. I have over a dozen old nimh cells that I quit using due to HSD. I just got tired of charging them before using them every time.

 

[MidnightDistortions]

The big enemy of LSD nimh is losing the "L" in LSD, turning into High Self Discharge cells that discharge too fast with too little capacity to even be useful in low drain devices over long periods of time. I have over a dozen old nimh cells that I quit using due to HSD. I just got tired of charging them before using them every time.

Yeah, its still a bit early for any of my LSD cells to become HSD. My older HSD cells that usually last 6 hours of non use before they become unusable i retire those. Some of my AAAs have such high IR that they will work for 8 or more months in low drain devices. Any other low drain that i don't have any usable rechargeables i just get some cheap LSD cells like EBL and so far they work great.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

You can still use old cells that have high self discharge. Put them in solar lawn lights.