Erin-McR38 & Erin-Ti A3 Head Status

[1wrx7]

Hi Cindy,

Thanks for enabling my button for the Erin 38mm reflector. I definatly want it, but there's some more stuff I need. You'll have my complete order in a couple of days

Hi Cindy,

Last night I put in my order for the 38mm reflector and some other goodies. I completely forgot to add my CPF username to the order when I completed it I hope this doesn't add too much confusion. Thank you for all you and Wayne offer to us here,

Keith Webb

 

[jch79]

Wayne/Cindy,
I wanted to get my McR-38 (thanks Erin!), and a lens, but I couldn't find the lenses anywhere - any chance you could point me towards a link?
Thanks,
:wave: john

 

[jch79]

Nevermind guys, I found a lens.
Thanks! :thumbsup:
john

 

[donn_]

WOW!

Absolutely gorgeous work! :twothumbs

:thanks: Erin, Cindy and Wayne!

 

[donn_]

I've been testing a variety of LEs in this head.

I have a Cree Q5 which works perfectly, but an R2 doesn't.

Seoul P4s work, as expected.

X-Bin LuxVs work beautifully. Possibly better than anything else.

To the eye, the reflector looks much like an McR38, but it reacts differently to various LEs.

 

[Illumination]

Re: McR38 & Ti A3 Head Status

erin0919,

From what I can gather from looking at the pictures of these and previous offerings of yours, you have essentially reverse engineered some of my Aleph designs. As to how effective and how accurately you have dimensionally and functionally replicated these parts, I have no idea. Perhaps you have improved on the originals. :shrug:

When I caught this thread what came as a new surprise was to see that more McR-38 reflectors were being offered as I was under the impression that they were all but gone. In reading your post, I initially assumed that you had been provided the dimensioned drawings for the McR-38 by the shoppe. It seems to me now though that you have likely reverse engineered the reflector as well. You have stated that "if the quality meet the standard", these will ship to Wayne. For all I know, these reflectors of yours might be better than the originals. They may have a more efficient reflective coating with greater transmision of light. The reflective curve may be better suited for the intended LED.

When an item is not an original there are any number of terms which may be applied to it. Some that come immediately to mind for me are clone, duplicate, replicate, copy, forgery, improvement, 3rd party replacement and on...

I think you have reasonably identified the nature of origin of these parts here in this thread. My only concern is with you using the same name and identification here is that the providence of these components will be lost over time and as some of these items change hand. My concern may have no basis or ever come to issue. It has come to pass that I receive a light or component from an owner for repair or problem identification and it turns out that the light or component is not of my hand or assembly. I don't brand or clearly identify any of my stuff with obvious markings and for the most part, identification is left to the form and style inherent in the viewing of it. If the form or style is duplicated or replicated how is one to identify the origin? :shrug:

I am not suggesting that there is any problem here but I do feel there is a potential for problems down the road if certain trends continue here in our world of flashaholic endeavors and lusting for new stuff. :shrug: Although experts may easily identify items, many of us are not expert; myself included.

Don, I am surprised that you are as accommodating as you have been.

I was going to buy one of the Erin creations. They look very nice. In the end I decided that I could not support forgeries, copies, etc.

One of the biggest economic challenges our country (i.e., the US) and other developed countries faces is intellectual property theft. In our little microcosm (i.e., the flashlight world) I decided I ultimately could not support such blatant IP theft. I'd never buy a fake DVD, shirt, belt, etc. off the streets of NYC...so why start in the flashlight world?

No offense to everyone else who bought one of these. They look great.

 

[easilyled]

Re: McR38 & Ti A3 Head Status

Whilst I can understand your reasoning, the precedent for Aleph clones was established long before erin0919's parts were being offered.

Surely the time to say something would have been when the first clones were made years ago?

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind your sentiments I think its slightly unfair that the criticism seems to be so pointedly directed at one source when this has been happening for a long time.

Don, I am surprised that you are as accommodating as you have been.

I was going to buy one of the Erin creations. They look very nice. In the end I decided that I could not support forgeries, copies, etc.

One of the biggest economic challenges our country (i.e., the US) and other developed countries faces is intellectual property theft. In our little microcosm (i.e., the flashlight world) I decided I ultimately could not support such blatant IP theft. I'd never buy a fake DVD, shirt, belt, etc. off the streets of NYC...so why start in the flashlight world?

No offense to everyone else who bought one of these. They look great.

 

[Illumination]

Re: McR38 & Ti A3 Head Status

Whilst I can understand your reasoning, the precedent for Aleph clones was established long before erin0919's parts were being offered.

Surely the time to say something would have been when the first clones were made years ago?

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind your sentiments I think its slightly unfair that the criticism seems to be so pointedly directed at one source when this has been happening for a long time.

I can't comment on things that may have happened years ago. My comment was in response to the two posts above by McGizmo where he showed restraint regarding the blatant copying of his designs. I came to my personal conclusion that I will not support such forgeries.

Perhaps I should not have said anything (it is not my intellectual property to protect) and instead just voted with my wallet.

 

[easilyled]

Re: McR38 & Ti A3 Head Status

I can't comment on things that may have happened years ago. My comment was in response to the two posts above by McGizmo where he showed restraint regarding the blatant copying of his designs. I came to my personal conclusion that I will not support such forgeries.

Perhaps I should not have said anything (it is not my intellectual property to protect) and instead just voted with my wallet.

My understanding of the gist of the posts by Don is that he was justifiably concerned that the offerings were misrepresented as originals.

Subsequently the title and the 1st post have addressed these concerns in that they make it quite clear that these are not original McGizmo pieces.

 

[cmacclel]

So can someone confirm if I'm reading this correctly. So Erin and Wayne are now making Ti A3 heads and MCR38 reflectors together and selling them at the shoppe and Don the designer didn't have a clue?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Mac

 

[dat2zip]

So can someone confirm if I'm reading this correctly. So Erin and Wayne are now making Ti A3 heads and MCR38 reflectors together and selling them at the shoppe and Don the deigner didn't have a clue?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Mac

Let's get this clear. I don't know why the shoppe (especially me personally) integrity is being questioned.

Why is there so much discontent for the shoppe? There are already many Aleph parts out there being made and there has been no stink until now.

Erin made these parts and then contacted the shoppe to have them offered as Erin only wanted a few for himself. I believe he didn't want to handle the shipping, money and to deal with the remainder of the batch that he had to make. Obviously he wanted one or two and had to make many more to get them made at all.

The shoppe is here to provide value added products and service. It seems lately that people are boycotting the shoppe for various reasons. It's no biggie to me. If I'm not offering any more value added and the shoppe can't sustain a positive cash flow then the shoppe will be closed. After it's closed I'm sure there will be a big storm after the fact and a lot of threads wondering why. By then it will be too late. The vast majority of users that were still shopping and visiting the shoppe it will be a huge loss for them.

I'm already contemplating taking a large percentage of stock offline as it's too much to deal and too little revenue that is generated by certain stock.

Anyone that thinks I'm overcharging for products:

1) Doesn't understand the true difficulty and costs associated with product design.

2) Is more than likely comparing my products with places like DealExtreme or others. Comparing quality products made here in the US vs Offshore goods should be well understood there will be quality differences and price differences associated.

3) Vote with your wallet. Not buying products from the Shoppe and putting the money somewhere else only means the shoppe is less likely to be financially solvent and running in the black or worse in the red only means the end may come sooner than expected.

4) While other modders make and create products in their spare time (hobby) and sell it for any price they desire. They most likely work for a living and get a paycheck from their real job to pay their rent or mortage. The shoppe (Cindy and I) spend every day 7 days a week to run and manage the shoppe and thus our mortage, electricity, water, sewage etc all get paid out of the revenue from the shoppe. Since we don't have a regular job there is no paycheck above and beyond the shoppe sales that pay for our living expenses. The margins products are priced take into account cost of living which means they will be more than likely more expensive from the shoppe than from a modder. Live is a *****... We need the house, electricity, food and gas just like everyone else. Making a couple bucks a month on a couple of sales of a few items does not pay the mortage. In fact, it takes a large number of sales and that is not a simple thing to accomplish. Sales for 2008 has been dismal and with the economy crash in October sales have plummetted even further. For the shoppe we are in a serious crisis situation. All expenses have been halted (new product development). We are accounting for every penny spent now more than ever to try to keep the books balanced. It's not working tho. Past year we have been in the black every month with many months in the red.

I have heard indirectly I've blown a bunch of you off. I have no idea why this is since I've not be told this directly. Seems people have gotten a bad impression and have not tried to make a real connection. Yes, it's a bummer that I can't accomodate custom versions of converters. It's costly and takes time. I am only conveying the truth. On top of that I'm already overloaded with regular day to day stuff. How would it be possible to do anything else when I already don't have enough time in the day to do what I need to do. Contacting the shoppe with some background information regarding what you are trying to do and what you are making will more than likely get a response than a one liner. How can I differentiate you from the many wanna be that I get a one liner from daily?

The two biggest monthly expenses are the mortage and health insurance. I was not able to retire from Agilent when I left since I was not 55 or older to qualify for early retirement even though I had 22 years of service with the company. So, we have to pay out of pocket for Medical, dental and vision.

The Aleph line is all over the place. There are many people here on CPF making E series compatible stuff. Nothing wrong with that. It just means the Aleph parts and products are no longer unique and have to compete with the E series parts out there. The shoppe can't compete and the stuff that has been generated with Don, Dave and others have been unique at one time. When it's no longer unique it no longer generates the revenue needed to keep the shoppe afloat. Todays market is full of flashlights that are very cost effective and good quality. LEDs are penetrating every market you can think of and generating new unique products is getting harder and harder every year.

Wayne

 

[TranquillityBase]

Let's get this clear. I don't know why the shoppe (especially me personally) integrity is being questioned.

Why is there so much discontent for the shoppe? There are already many Aleph parts out there being made and there has been no stink until now.

Erin made these parts and then contacted the shoppe to have them offered as Erin only wanted a few for himself. I believe he didn't want to handle the shipping, money and to deal with the remainder of the batch that he had to make. Obviously he wanted one or two and had to make many more to get them made at all.

The shoppe is here to provide value added products and service. It seems lately that people are boycotting the shoppe for various reasons. It's no biggie to me. If I'm not offering any more value added and the shoppe can't sustain a positive cash flow then the shoppe will be closed. After it's closed I'm sure there will be a big storm after the fact and a lot of threads wondering why. By then it will be too late. The vast majority of users that were still shopping and visiting the shoppe it will be a huge loss for them.

I'm already contemplating taking a large percentage of stock offline as it's too much to deal and too little revenue that is generated by certain stock.

Anyone that thinks I'm overcharging for products:

1) Doesn't understand the true difficulty and costs associated with product design.

2) Is more than likely comparing my products with places like DealExtreme or others. Comparing quality products made here in the US vs Offshore goods should be well understood there will be quality differences and price differences associated.

3) Vote with your wallet. Not buying products from the Shoppe and putting the money somewhere else only means the shoppe is less likely to be financially solvent and running in the black or worse in the red only means the end may come sooner than expected.

4) While other modders make and create products in their spare time (hobby) and sell it for any price they desire. They most likely work for a living and get a paycheck from their real job to pay their rent or mortage. The shoppe (Cindy and I) spend every day 7 days a week to run and manage the shoppe and thus our mortage, electricity, water, sewage etc all get paid out of the revenue from the shoppe. Since we don't have a regular job there is no paycheck above and beyond the shoppe sales that pay for our living expenses. The margins products are priced take into account cost of living which means they will be more than likely more expensive from the shoppe than from a modder. Live is a *****... We need the house, electricity, food and gas just like everyone else. Making a couple bucks a month on a couple of sales of a few items does not pay the mortage. In fact, it takes a large number of sales and that is not a simple thing to accomplish. Sales for 2008 has been dismal and with the economy crash in October sales have plummetted even further. For the shoppe we are in a serious crisis situation. All expenses have been halted (new product development). We are accounting for every penny spent now more than ever to try to keep the books balanced. It's not working tho. Past year we have been in the black every month with many months in the red.

I have heard indirectly I've blown a bunch of you off. I have no idea why this is since I've not be told this directly. Seems people have gotten a bad impression and have not tried to make a real connection. Yes, it's a bummer that I can't accomodate custom versions of converters. It's costly and takes time. I am only conveying the truth. On top of that I'm already overloaded with regular day to day stuff. How would it be possible to do anything else when I already don't have enough time in the day to do what I need to do. Contacting the shoppe with some background information regarding what you are trying to do and what you are making will more than likely get a response than a one liner. How can I differentiate you from the many wanna be that I get a one liner from daily?

The two biggest monthly expenses are the mortage and health insurance. I was not able to retire from Agilent when I left since I was not 55 or older to qualify for early retirement even though I had 22 years of service with the company. So, we have to pay out of pocket for Medical, dental and vision.

The Aleph line is all over the place. There are many people here on CPF making E series compatible stuff. Nothing wrong with that. It just means the Aleph parts and products are no longer unique and have to compete with the E series parts out there. The shoppe can't compete and the stuff that has been generated with Don, Dave and others have been unique at one time. When it's no longer unique it no longer generates the revenue needed to keep the shoppe afloat. Todays market is full of flashlights that are very cost effective and good quality. LEDs are penetrating every market you can think of and generating new unique products is getting harder and harder every year.

Wayne

Since my first purchase of flashlight parts from the Shoppe, Sunday March 13th 2005 to my most recent, Saturday June 21 2008, I have spent a total of $3686.21 at your site.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post on this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212762

I have heard indirectly I've blown a bunch of you off.

 

[Ms_SS]

MAC, "Erin made these parts and then contacted the shoppe to have them offered as Erin only wanted a few for himself. I believe he didn't want to handle the shipping, money and to deal with the remainder of the batch that he had to make. Obviously he wanted one or two and had to make many more to get them made at all."

I talked to Don after we were contacted. I see TB and other Aleph-like parts all over CPF. Erin is hardly the first person. Why are you all being so harsh?

 

[TranquillityBase]

I'm just wondering why my posts go unanswered...Kind of feels like I'm being blow off...

Not rocket science

 

[cmacclel]

MAC, "Erin made these parts and then contacted the shoppe to have them offered as Erin only wanted a few for himself. I believe he didn't want to handle the shipping, money and to deal with the remainder of the batch that he had to make. Obviously he wanted one or two and had to make many more to get them made at all."

I talked to Don after we were contacted. I see TB and other Aleph-like parts all over CPF. Erin is hardly the first person. Why are you all being so harsh?

Harsh?? from an outsider looking in as myself as I just saw this thread yesterday it appeared from Dons response that he didn't have a clue about what was going on. If things are *not* as they appear then my please accept my apologies for the statement I made earlier.

I would do the same for anyone here including the Shoppe if I saw someone copying your design without permission. In fact I did when Deal Extreme was copying FiveMega's work but that post was deleted. It's quite evident that people overseas are copying everything and anything and I hate to see that being supporting here.


Mac

 

[darkzero]

Since my first purchase of flashlight parts from the Shoppe, Sunday March 13th 2005 to my most recent, Saturday June 21 2008, I have spent a total of $3686.21 at your site.

Ha, I beat you! $4082.05 from 6/9/03 - 12/3/08. :nana: :laughing:

I'm just wondering why my posts go unanswered...Kind of feels like I'm being blow off...

Not rocket science

I too feel this way & is one of the only issues that bothers me with the Shoppe. It's aggrevating when posts/PMs don't get answered about a product & leaves me in the water about ordering what I had in mind. I certainly can't afford to order products for this type of experimenting. I can understand it may be time consuming to answer all inquires & just the valid ones but better late than no answer at all. This happens all over CPF though. :sigh: Sometimes I get answers fairly quick & sometimes no answer at all & I've always wondered why this is?

I'll continue my full support for the Shoppe but sometimes I have no choice but to go elsewhere when I don't get responses & I rather not.

 

[McGizmo]

This thread is in the shoppe forum and for that reason, I felt a reluctance to post at all initially but did anyway. The Aleph series is based on the E-series geometry and so its very foundation is open as well as open to question, to some extent. I did not get clearance from SF when I and others started making E-series compatible components. I do recall PK being reasonably welcome to additional components and alternatives which were compatible and kept the SF E-series active in participation.

At some point, I believe over two years ago, I essentially turned the Aleph baton over to the shoppe and my focus turned to the "x2" series of lights.

Erin surprised me a while back by offering some Ti components which seemed to be near exact copies of some of my stuff. Certainly others have been building and offering components which served the same function but typically with an obvious difference in style and often variation in function or adaptability. I believe a typical member of CPF has primary concerns limited to how much?, When can I get it? and what does it do?. This is certainly understandable and for many as customers, their needs and desires are not influenced by the health and well being of those supplying them beyond the ability to supply, itself. I am now going off tangent here so I will stop.

What was entirely new here in this thread and prompted my post was the introduction of a reflector that seemed to carry a name and identification suggisting it was one of my optics. I had not been in open and frequent communication with Cindy or Wayne nor had I heard anything about this from Erin. As a result, I was caught completely by surprise. For that reason I posted. I have since then been given the background by Cindy and recently enjoyed a long phone conversation with Wayne in which I don't think we even breached this particular situation. It wasn't brought up because there is really no issue in contention.

Candidly, I am glad that Erin involved the shoppe with these components as it seems they stand to benefit to some degree in the program. I do have other personal thoughts and opinions but they would be on the tangent mentined above and have no place in this thread.

For what it's worth, I hope the shoppe is as successful as possible with the offerning here and subject of this thread. I suspect that Erin has different values and standards than I and he may surprise me again in the future but the surprise will be in regards to what he brings to this market and not that he has done so. Perhaps he can put more emphasis on innovation and less on simple duplication but that is his decision to make.

 

[easilyled]

In my opinion this is where the precedent for virtually identical Aleph clones was established:-

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/126852&highlight=Ti+A1+heads

I fail to see any inferred criticism here at all by Don or anyone else.

What is erin0919 doing differently in principal?

 

[cmacclel]

In my opinion this is where the precedent for virtually identical Aleph clones was established:-

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/126852&highlight=Ti+A1+heads

I fail to see any inferred criticism here at all by Don or anyone else.

What is erin0919 doing differently in principal?

Maybe it's the fact that Erin has made clones of the half the McGizmo line up and now it includes reflectors.

We already heard from both parties so maybe it's time to put this to bed??

Mac

 

[easilyled]

Maybe it's the fact that Erin has made clones of the half the McGizmo line up and now it includes reflectors.

We already heard from both parties so maybe it's time to put this to bed??

Mac

So its the scale and the type of component that has aroused this indignation?

Are you sure its not the country of origin too?

Where exactly was any of this made clear?

I think its time to put it to bed when everyone is judged with the same yardstick and there isn't one rule
for one person and another for somebody else.