Feedback/impressions on the PhD-M6 custom battery pack

[hron61]

hi will,
yes, good question. maybe you could add a 1/2-3/4 spacer between head and body? i know i wouldnt even mind an extra inch added to it. runtime and performance are what matters me thinks. i love the look and feel of the m4, and to have the same capacity of the phd pack into it, it would do pretty well i beleive. i read that many people love the beam and throw of it but the operating costs keep em in the closet. i know i would be up for one. :wave:

 

[Alan B]

Great Job!!!

Congratulations on a great project and product, Will and Eric!!

Too bad I don't have an M6!

By the way, heat factors on the batteries will be related to RMS bulb current, not peak current (plus any bulb heating). The duty cycle cancels out the peak factors.

So many M@gs, so little time...

 

[Tempest UK]

Wow - 12 of them :devil:

Do you have them all with different bulbs/batteries?

12 was something of an exaggeration.

I think I have 5 or 6 of them...I'm not too sure. All completely stock at the moment, running either the MN20 or MN21.

The PhD-M6 is my first step into aftermarket options and rechargeable solutions for the M6. I don't mind feeding them SF123A...just not all of them...and not all of the time. My previously voracious consumption of SF123A has declined somewhat now that most of the lights I'm using on a regular basis are using efficient LEDs. The M6 is my last big battery-eater in (fairly) regular usage, so it now seems to make sense to have the rechargeable option there.

 

[wquiles]

hi will,
yes, good question. maybe you could add a 1/2-3/4 spacer between head and body? i know i wouldnt even mind an extra inch added to it. runtime and performance are what matters me thinks. i love the look and feel of the m4, and to have the same capacity of the phd pack into it, it would do pretty well i beleive. i read that many people love the beam and throw of it but the operating costs keep em in the closet. i know i would be up for one. :wave:

It would require a lot of machining as the head has to thread on one side and the body has to thread on the other, and it would have to be hollow to accept the driver, but certainly an interesting project for the future.

Great Job!!!

Congratulations on a great project and product, Will and Eric!!

Thanks much Alan :bow:

12 was something of an exaggeration.

I think I have 5 or 6 of them...I'm not too sure. All completely stock at the moment, running either the MN20 or MN21.

The PhD-M6 is my first step into aftermarket options and rechargeable solutions for the M6. I don't mind feeding them SF123A...just not all of them...and not all of the time. My previously voracious consumption of SF123A has declined somewhat now that most of the lights I'm using on a regular basis are using efficient LEDs. The M6 is my last big battery-eater in (fairly) regular usage, so it now seems to make sense to have the rechargeable option there.

Gotcha. I am the same way with my two M6's. They did not see much use prior to using rechargeable options - I could not stand the price of primaries :sick2:

 

[my_gentle_cry]

I received my pack yesterday.
I'm impressed! Will, thank U for the excellent work
I remember a lively debate regarding the bulb WA1111, so I decided to make several measurements:

M*g fire +WA1111+AW softstart
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)
U of the batteries 8.2V(just charged)
U of the lamp 7,0V

M*g fire +WA1111+AW softstart
2*AW18650 (IMR1600mA)
U of the batteries 8.3V (just charged)
U of the lamp 7.4V, in 3 sec - 7,1V, then - 7,0V

18mm FiveMega BODIES 2*18650+bi-pin+WA1111+AW softstart
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)
U of the batteries 8.2V (just charged)
U of the lamp 6,6V

Megalennium - A 2*18650+dummy+ bi-pin+WA1111
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)+Dummy
U lamp: 6,6V
U batteries: 8,1V

I didn't managed to make beam shots… my measurements pleasure dragged on till 3 am But when comparing PhD-M6 level-one (6.8V)+ bi-pin+WA1111 with megalennium -A 2*18650+dummy+ bi-pin+WA1111 I didn't see any difference.
But it was much brighter on level-2 (7.4V).

Sasha

 

[wquiles]

I received my pack yesterday.
I'm impressed! Will, thank U for the excellent work
I remember a lively debate regarding the bulb WA1111, so I decided to make several measurements:

M*g fire +WA1111+AW softstart
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)
U of the batteries 8.2V(just charged)
U of the lamp 7,0V

M*g fire +WA1111+AW softstart
2*AW18650 (IMR1600mA)
U of the batteries 8.3V (just charged)
U of the lamp 7.4V, in 3 sec - 7,1V, then - 7,0V

18mm FiveMega BODIES 2*18650+bi-pin+WA1111+AW softstart
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)
U of the batteries 8.2V (just charged)
U of the lamp 6,6V

Megalennium - A 2*18650+dummy+ bi-pin+WA1111
2 * AW 18650 (2600mA)+Dummy
U lamp: 6,6V
U batteries: 8,1V

I didn't managed to make beam shots… my measurements pleasure dragged on till 3 am But when comparing PhD-M6 level-one (6.8V)+ bi-pin+WA1111 with megalennium -A 2*18650+dummy+ bi-pin+WA1111 I didn't see any difference.
But it was much brighter on level-2 (7.4V).

Sasha

Awesome - thanks much for letting me know it arrived safely and that it is working well

 

[LuxLuthor]

Having two of these PhD-M6 packs is seriously making me want to buy a second M6. I remember back in the day arguing with JS about how impractical the M6 was (compared to a Mag85 or Mag66) and how I hardly ever used my M4...mainly because of the short & rapidly waning SF disposable 123a cells.

Do I need a 2nd M6? Hell no. Is this PhD-M6 pack so inspiring that it is driving me towards buying one just to use the pack in? Yep. If I was SF, I would buy this out from these guys yesterday. Willie Hunt knows the value of something like this, and isn't he working there now?

I wonder if I can just buy the M6 body and tailcap, since I already have a spare KT4 head?

 

[Troop#26]

Having two of these PhD-M6 packs is seriously making me want to buy a second M6. I remember back in the day arguing with JS about how impractical the M6 was (compared to a Mag85 or Mag66) and how I hardly ever used my M4...mainly because of the short & rapidly waning SF disposable 123a cells.

Do I need a 2nd M6? Hell no. Is this PhD-M6 pack so inspiring that it is driving me towards buying one just to use the pack in? Yep. If I was SF, I would buy this out from these guys yesterday. Willie Hunt knows the value of something like this, and isn't he working there now?

I wonder if I can just buy the M6 body and tailcap, since I already have a spare KT4 head?

Yes, yes you can!

Spare Body Here, Im still looking for a source for a new tail, as this one has sold. I also purchased the Millennium Turbo Head he had!

If anyone can find a source for tail switches I would be forever indebted!

Stephen

P.S. Will... come a few more paydays Im getting a Ninja Addition! I think Im going to push the bulbs a little harder with this one and have it just for a toy!

BTW... it finally stopped raining here long enough to play with this a little bit. The MN21 is, well frankly amazing @ 6.8V. I could see how people in the past would not want to use it due to primary costs... now I say shine on. I also put in the HOM6 and IMR M6 from lumens factory. The HOM6 really is a thrower... the IMRM6 is really really freaking bright on fresh Lions, I only ran it for a second but both inside and outside it seemed brighter to me than the MN21 (maybe its all in my head). The MN61 is a great bulb noticeably less bright than MN21 but still very useable. Great FREAKING PRODUCT!

I must agree Lux Im subscribed to both this and the sales thread and every time I see and update, Im thinking its going to be that the thread is closed due to an "outside agency" not disclosed at this time buying out the product. I then expect to see the front page with a new M6e or rM6 or maybe the ANM6 Scalper for sale buy surefire.:naughty:

Stephen

 

[Kestrel]

In the M6 Eric and I used the space already in use by the OEM battery holder to create a new custom pack that houses the cells and the driver. I am sure it is doable, but I think with the M4 the challenge is space. Where in the M4 would where you thinking that one could put the regulator/driver?

I've got an idea for this that is a little 'out there', the usable depth is probably insufficient but at least I wanted to submit it:

In the Moddoo ZeroRez tailcap mod, the brass part that takes the place of the stock aluminum component & spring assembly is ~0.75" tall above the bottom flange that makes contact with the light body. In addition, an additional 0.010" could be gained by altering the geometry (i.e. elevating the outer contact flange) to permit electrical contact with the Z41 screwed further out from the light body, where the exterior shell of the Z41 begins to reveal the auxiliary o-ring groove on the light body. An additional 0.015" more can be gained by unscrewing the Z41 further, until the primary o-ring groove is about to be revealed. In this way, the light is 'getting longer', as the tailcap contact position would be elevated considerably compared to the stock location, creating more usable volume at this location.

Taking all this together, there would be a maximum usable cylindrical volume inside a modded Z41 of ~1.0" height x 0.65" diam, although there would still have to be a center hole to permit a retaining screw to hold the regulation unit to the rest of the momentary assembly.

I hope this is clear, tried to explain the best that I could. Not the greatest idea, but it's an idea - perhaps a 'cut down' version of your regulator/driver with a reduced feature set... :shrug:

If I was SF, I would buy this out from these guys yesterday.

Yes, that would make a lot of sense.

 

[wquiles]

Do I need a 2nd M6? Hell no. Is this PhD-M6 pack so inspiring that it is driving me towards buying one just to use the pack in? Yep. If I was SF, I would buy this out from these guys yesterday. Willie Hunt knows the value of something like this, and isn't he working there now?

I must agree Lux Im subscribed to both this and the sales thread and every time I see and update, Im thinking its going to be that the thread is closed due to an "outside agency" not disclosed at this time buying out the product. I then expect to see the front page with a new M6e or rM6 or maybe the ANM6 Scalper for sale buy surefire.:naughty:

Thank you both for the good thoughts on outside interest. I was answering questions about the PhD-M6 in a flashlight forum in Malasya, so the word about the PhD-M6 "is" spreading

P.S. Will... come a few more paydays Im getting a Ninja Addition! I think Im going to push the bulbs a little harder with this one and have it just for a toy!

BTW... it finally stopped raining here long enough to play with this a little bit. The MN21 is, well frankly amazing @ 6.8V. I could see how people in the past would not want to use it due to primary costs... now I say shine on. I also put in the HOM6 and IMR M6 from lumens factory. The HOM6 really is a thrower... the IMRM6 is really really freaking bright on fresh Lions, I only ran it for a second but both inside and outside it seemed brighter to me than the MN21 (maybe its all in my head). The MN61 is a great bulb noticeably less bright than MN21 but still very useable. Great FREAKING PRODUCT!

Thanks much. It is awesome to hear reports of the PhD-M6 being put to good use :twothumbs

I've got an idea for this that is a little 'out there', the usable depth is probably insufficient but at least I wanted to submit it:

(snip pic)

In the Moddoo ZeroRez tailcap mod, the brass part that takes the place of the stock aluminum component & spring assembly is ~0.75" tall above the bottom flange that makes contact with the light body. In addition, an additional 0.010" could be gained by altering the geometry (i.e. elevating the outer contact flange) to permit electrical contact with the Z41 screwed further out from the light body, where the exterior shell of the Z41 begins to reveal the auxiliary o-ring groove on the light body. An additional 0.015" more can be gained by unscrewing the Z41 further, until the primary o-ring groove is about to be revealed. In this way, the light is 'getting longer', as the tailcap contact position would be elevated considerably compared to the stock location, creating more usable volume at this location.

Taking all this together, there would be a maximum usable cylindrical volume inside a modded Z41 of ~1.0" height x 0.65" diam, although there would still have to be a center hole to permit a retaining screw to hold the regulation unit to the rest of the momentary assembly.

I hope this is clear, tried to explain the best that I could. Not the greatest idea, but it's an idea - perhaps a 'cut down' version of your regulator/driver with a reduced feature set... :shrug:

These are all good ideas, so please keep them coming. It is great to bounce ideas around to see what is possible.

Although using a fixed number of cells (2x) and a fixed/single bulb, Willie Hunt's awesome A2 does already solves a lot of the challenges of placing a PWM driver in-line with the cells, completely self-contained in the battery tube.

Will

 

[LuxLuthor]

Yes, yes you can!

Spare Body Here, Im still looking for a source for a new tail, as this one has sold. I also purchased the Millennium Turbo Head he had!

Appreciate info, but I need a body and tailcap, or else a new M6

 

[Dioni]

Hi guys.

There is a lot of info here, so please don't take me wrong. I have a question wich probably already been anwsered here.

How could this PhD-M6, setted at 6.8v [eg], handle the MN21? This bulb drawing more than 5amps, correct? And the PhD does use 3x17670 wich have 1600mah. How could it?

Thanks in advance!
lovecpf

 

[wquiles]

Hi guys.

There is a lot of info here, so please don't take me wrong. I have a question wich probably already been anwsered here.

How could this PhD-M6, setted at 6.8v [eg], handle the MN21? This bulb drawing more than 5amps, correct? And the PhD does use 3x17670 wich have 1600mah. How could it?

Thanks in advance!
lovecpf

The MN21 is indeed very hard on those cells , and until the IMR cells do become available, that is all we can use in this 17670 form factor for now.

With the PhD-M6 we are driving the 17670 cells pretty hard with the MN21, so we recommend short runs of 5 to 10 minutes to give the cells time to recover as they do get warm/hot with long runs. For less output, but decent runtime at a current draw that is not too hard on the cells, we recommend the MN61.

Will

 

[hron61]

The MN21 is indeed very hard on those cells , and until the IMR cells do become available, that is all we can use in this 17670 form factor for now.

With the PhD-M6 we are driving the 17670 cells pretty hard with the MN21, so we recommend short runs of 5 to 10 minutes to give the cells time to recover as they do get warm/hot with long runs. For less output, but decent runtime at a current draw that is not too hard on the cells, we recommend the MN61.

Will

hey will, sorry for the newbie question but will we be able to use the phd packs with the imr's when they become available? as in same size to fit the packs? and or will the voltages still work with intended bulbs? what would the advantage of imr be?

 

[Dioni]

The MN21 is indeed very hard on those cells , and until the IMR cells do become available, that is all we can use in this 17670 form factor for now.

With the PhD-M6 we are driving the 17670 cells pretty hard with the MN21, so we recommend short runs of 5 to 10 minutes to give the cells time to recover as they do get warm/hot with long runs. For less output, but decent runtime at a current draw that is not too hard on the cells, we recommend the MN61.

Will

That was what I was thinking. Just care, no miracle!
Thanks for the confirmation and your work is impressive on that.
I'm saving money to take one!
:thumbsup:

hey will, sorry for the newbie question but will we be able to use the phd packs with the imr's when they become available? as in same size to fit the packs? and or will the voltages still work with intended bulbs? what would the advantage of imr be?

The IMR17670, if become avaliable someday, they should have the same size of the 17670 li-ons as the voltage will be also the same. The upgrade will be rightly handle this big bulbs wich drawing many amps. The IMR's chemistry cells allow a 8C safe discharge limit rate against 2C of the li-ions. Somthing like 12.8amps against 3.2amps. :devil:

 

[wquiles]

hey will, sorry for the newbie question but will we be able to use the phd packs with the imr's when they become available? as in same size to fit the packs? and or will the voltages still work with intended bulbs? what would the advantage of imr be?

The IMR cells should work great, since they have a lower internal resistance (allowing for higher current and lower internal losses/heat), even though they tipically have lower capacity than current LiIon cells (for the same size/form factor). I do hope that at some point we will get IMR cells in the 17670 size, so at that point I will be able to fully characterize how the PhD-M6 does with those cells.

 

[hron61]

will, one of my m6's has an aw soft start switch installed in it, should i put the stock switch back in or is it ok to run it with the phd too since the phd has a built in one? will it damage the aw switch? thanks

 

[wquiles]

will, one of my m6's has an aw soft start switch installed in it, should i put the stock switch back in or is it ok to run it with the phd too since the phd has a built in one? will it damage the aw switch? thanks

It is never OK to run the PhD-M6 with any other electronic/active device. In this case you risk damaging the PhD-M6, the AW soft switch, blowing the the bulb, or damaging all of them. The only path that would yield predictable results is to replace the OEM switch back before attempting to use the PhD-M6.

Will

 

[hron61]

It is never OK to run the PhD-M6 with any other electronic/active device. In this case you risk damaging the PhD-M6, the AW soft switch, blowing the the bulb, or damaging all of them. The only path that would yield predictable results is to replace the OEM switch back before attempting to use the PhD-M6.

Will

im glad i asked first. i will reinstall the oem before running the phd.

 

[Dioni]

It is never OK to run the PhD-M6 with any other electronic/active device. In this case you risk damaging the PhD-M6, the AW soft switch, blowing the the bulb, or damaging all of them. The only path that would yield predictable results is to replace the OEM switch back before attempting to use the PhD-M6.

Will

Good to know! Thanks! :thumbsup: