Firefly/sub lumens?? Why?

[bykfixer]

This thread caused me to name a flashlight Goldilox.

See, being there is hot weather pending I pre-hydrate. So at those times I have 2-3 middle night bathroom trips.
Last night I post-hydrated to experiment with 3 favorite low output flashlights.

At midnight my sublumen bushnell was tooooo dark.
At 2:30am my 7 lumen Alpha was tooooo bright.

At 4:30 my 2 lumen Mag Solitaire was juuuuuust right.




Now regarding waking the Mrs.... I could turn on a hellfighter and she'd not wake.

 

[easilyled]

I don't get it. My Olight S1 and my zebra lights S52 and SC600 II and III have very low firefly modes, which I find completely useless. I can't even grab a pair of socks the right color in the morning with it. I get that it doesn't disturb other people around you, but if you can't see what you're doing, what good is it? I see people hung up a lot on new lights because the firefly isn't a true sub lumen. What do you use yours for?

DMS1970, By now, having read all these answers, I am sure you can see that there is a huge variation in reasoning for different flashlight levels and also in people's sensitivity to light at differerent lighting levels.

This means that there is no such thing as one solution for everybody. Many posters have given plenty of good reasons for why they want/need sublumen levels and many like yourself have reasoned equally well the other way.

What it does show is that a light with the ability to have many different levels that are easy to attain would probably be the best fit for everybody.

There are/have been lights available like these eg. the Zebralights, the Sunwayman V10R with its variable magnetic control ring or (if you wish to spend more money) the custom SPY007s that can be programmed to 4 banks of 6 different levels taylored to your custom needs. These are only a few examples but there are plenty of others and the general trend these days is for more flexibility so that the user can have all the levels that he/she requires. Judging by the diversity of answers, this is a good thing.

 

[Gryffin]

These are only a few examples but there are plenty of others and the general trend these days is for more flexibility so that the user can have all the levels that he/she requires. Judging by the diversity of answers, this is a good thing.

Hey, wait, what is this? Calm, rational discussion? Mature, responsible debate on a topic of some dispute, sans name-calling, ad-hominen attacks, raised voices, or personal insults? THIS IS THE INTERNET, we don't DO that sort of thing here!!!!


:twothumbs :grouphug: lovecpf

 

[mcnair55]

Hey, wait, what is this? Calm, rational discussion? Mature, responsible debate on a topic of some dispute, sans name-calling, ad-hominen attacks, raised voices, or personal insults? THIS IS THE INTERNET, we don't DO that sort of thing here!!!!


:twothumbs :grouphug: lovecpf

That made me laugh.

 

[wacbzz]

Hey, wait, what is this? Calm, rational discussion? Mature, responsible debate on a topic of some dispute, sans name-calling, ad-hominen attacks, raised voices, or personal insults? THIS IS THE INTERNET, we don't DO that sort of thing here!!!!

That made me laugh.

Don't worry, my cynicism is about to kick in and turn it up a notch...:devil:

One of the things that I've always - and I literally mean always- laughed at are those folks that post in the WTS section of the forum when they post an ad for a light that they claim to have...wait for it...had placed in a safe its whole life. A safe. Something that was meant to contain the most necessary of items in case of a catastrophic event; a will, your passport, birth certificates, money, bonds, etc. Flashlights? No.

So while I'm laughing at their expense, I find this whole "sub-lumen" thing to cause the same reaction from me...shaking my head and quietly laughing while thinking, "only in America." Lighting the way to the bathroom? Really? Who doesn't know the outlay of their own house? Who has crap lying in the floor so at night, when one needs to get up to urgently go, they need a light to illuminate the way so they don't trip over something that just happens to be in the way? I find some merit with the post about using such low level lighting to cut a child's nails while sleeping, but that, of course, begs the even bigger question about the problem with the nail cutting while awake. Lol! I have a six year old daughter, so I'm not just speaking out my backside. The best response though has got to be the one about using the low level lighting in the hotel room. What kind of hotel are you staying in? I really did laugh out loud at that. Because of work, I've traveled to and stayed in many different hotels - the layout cannot be that mysterious and dangerous that one needs a light to "illuminate" the way to the bathroom.

I figured out long ago with my HDS lights that the most wasted setting for me was programming it to some sub-lumen level; what the hell good does squinting do when one needs to see something? And in the 20 years that I've been married, I've never once had to worry about my wife complaining about a light I was using being too bright...after I've long gone to work, she still gets to lay there and (maybe) go back to sleep. I'm very considerate of her, but I don't do anything that I wouldn't normally do to get ready for work; if it really were an issue, I personally would get my crap together the night before and place it out of the room - forget about using some sub-lumen level to squint to try to find a matching shirt and tie for work.

Anyway, it's been a funny read, this thread. Different strokes for different folks, right? Keep 'em coming.

 

[bykfixer]

If there were such a thing as one flashlight that does everything for everybody...

We'd all be in the 'cafe' taking about cafe stuff.
Would there even be a CPF?

 

[RedLED]

Its perfect for when I am on my covert CIA missions breaking into al ISIS over seas and going through their file cabinets in the middle of the night yo

That's right a national security issue.

Most of us at CPF love our super low output light for a thousand different things.

 

[wacbzz]

If there were such a thing as one flashlight that does everything for everybody...

We'd all be in the 'cafe' taking about cafe stuff.
Would there even be a CPF?

Its debateable whether Henry Ford ever said that a customer could buy one of his vehicles with any color they wanted as long as it was black, but the point was, and is, still relevant. There was zero need for sub lumens until somebody needed something new in the flashlight world to use as a potential selling point. Now, people cannot even navigate their own house without needing a sub lumen level.

Silly.

 

[Tre_Asay]

Its debateable whether Henry Ford ever said that a customer could buy one of his vehicles with any color they wanted as long as it was black, but the point was, and is, still relevant. There was zero need for sub lumens until somebody needed something new in the flashlight world to use as a potential selling point. Now, people cannot even navigate their own house without needing a sub lumen level.

Silly.

I would have to disagree with you there. I feel like it is a feature that you don't think you will use until you have it.
Perhaps you have a case of night blindness and need 20+ lumens to see anything.
Perhaps the streetlights throw enough light in your room that you have no need of any other light.

All I know is that even .25 lumens in the middle of the night is already painfully bright to me, and I have no problem lighting up a large room with it. Sometimes I forget it is on "moonlight" and think it is on medium.

IMO it is just another brightness level, not enough for all uses but will last days even on a small battery.

 

[archimedes]

That made me laugh.

New avatar, I see ...

 

[bykfixer]

Blame it on Columbus.

Yup it was all good until somebody discovered the earth is round.

After that the bandwagon affect is to blame.

I'm glad there's folks who can see with a firefly mode. Maybe years ago I could have. But back then our option was to place a lightning bug in a jar and (like the flashlight of that time) hope it lit when you need it to.
Yup.

 

[Gryffin]

One of the things that I've always - and I literally mean always- laughed at are those folks that post in the WTS section of the forum when they post an ad for a light that they claim to have...wait for it...had placed in a safe its whole life. A safe. Something that was meant to contain the most necessary of items in case of a catastrophic event; a will, your passport, birth certificates, money, bonds, etc. Flashlights? No.

Some flashlights could easily be considered collectible, and hence, valuable. A lot of those same people you see on WTS also have a gun safe (guns, knives, flashlights, they all seem to attract the same sort of people); what's wrong in placing other valuables in there, like a will, passport, birth certificate, money, bonds, or… I dunno… flashlights that are worth more than most people's TVs?

Really? Who doesn't know the outlay of their own house? Who has crap lying in the floor so at night, when one needs to get up to urgently go, they need a light to illuminate the way so they don't trip over something that just happens to be in the way?

Kids tend to leave toys all over the floor. (Ever stepped on a LEGO in bare feet? ) My dog never seems to sleep in the same place twice. Clutter happens.

Personally, I get around my house very well in the dark, mostly since it's never *totally* dark, thanks to street lighting. The Love O' My Life though, can't seem to walk ten feet without illumination, and I'd rather have her use the single-digit-lumen light on her nightstand, than turn on the lights and wake me up. (Like you, the wife is the exact opposite of me: once she's asleep, artillery fire wouldn't wake her.)

Anyway, it's been a funny read, this thread. Different strokes for different folks, right? Keep 'em coming.

Glad we amuse you. It's what we live for.

 

[eh4]

Its debateable whether Henry Ford ever said that a customer could buy one of his vehicles with any color they wanted as long as it was black, but the point was, and is, still relevant. There was zero need for sub lumens until somebody needed something new in the flashlight world to use as a potential selling point. Now, people cannot even navigate their own house without needing a sub lumen level.

Silly.

When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's most of the lights that I had were much closer to moonlight than the cheap lights available today, and a lot of their use near the end of battery life they'd be down closer to today's fireflies.
It must have had to do with the bulbs, but some of the "better" brighter ones were nice and bright but they'd soon become Flash-lights, and only give bright light for a min or two before dimming disheartening, till the batteries recovered.
Firefly and moon modes drastically increase the utility of modern lights If you're in the dark for long periods of time and/or don't want to be the main attraction at the center of your light show.
-We'd also use FOAS, which quickly became EOAS shortly after it'd been pulled from the fire to better see to pick a moth out of the stew or what's crawling up a leg -does it need brushing off, swatting, is it a tick to be thrown in the fire or something deserving of a quick panic dance?

Bright, reliable led lighting was a game changer but quickly became too much of a good thing until moonlight options came around.
Moonlit and firefly allow extended use of light without compromising the ability to have more and more light when needed, the opposite of where I started out with flashlights. It's where powerful led lights went from being impressive to extremely useful to me.
Remember candle lanterns? At the time they were one of the best options for a long lasting, low flood. I was always knocking mine over and having to clean paraffin off the glass and spring.
When the red Infinity Ultra came along I had to have one, just knowing that I wasn't going to be left in the dark was amazing, not having to be a miser about guesstimating remainder of battery was amazing, and not dazzling my eyes with a rapidly dimming light when I'd only wanted a little light for a min, even more so.
A week on one AA! Only one mode, lol!

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I think in all honesty people "like the idea" of these uber low modes and justify them illogically appealing to things like night vision and uber long runtimes that make little real sense to most of us in use as if you require a light then night vision isn't useful to begin with and if you require insane runtimes then you either are very lazy to not want to replace batteries on occasion or think you are saving money and not using rechargeable batteries to begin with. With LEDs a LOT more efficient than they were 10 years ago and many lights have adequate lower modes with respectable runtimes surpassing even a day of constant use now one really needs a situation with keeping a light on constantly or not disturbing people who are light sensitive or maybe star gazing.

 

[Fa Tre]

Firefly or red light is a must for me. I use these levels when the boy wakes up at night and I need to find his nuk wherever in his room or crib he managed to toss it. I like to do so without blinding and/or completely waking us both. Also helps me not trip on the dog when this happens, which as someone has pointed out, tends to not sleep in same place twice.

 

[vadimax]

My story is the same of some other members here. I never used firefly/moonlight mode because i only had Fenix lights. When i got my first Olight S10 i was awestruck by the amount of light moonlight mode still gives. It is my preferred mode now and will not buy a light that does not have it.

Yes, this is kind of funny contradiction: I buy flashlights that are capable to produce brightest beams, but practically use them in two lowest modes

 

[Tre_Asay]

Actually it does make sense to not have moonlight mode for most people who don't edc a light 24/7 (even when sleeping).
The people who just use max and burn through batteries.
For me personally I try to get the most use out of my flashlights so I use them a lot in various situations, mostly on high or near enough to it when I am outside. OTOH I will use >0.01 lumens when I just want to find something on the nightstand.
Going to a qtc light was a bit of a game changer for me as I gave up the idea of estimating runtime based on the mode I am using. There is no way of telling if I am shining 5 lumens or 50, so I just assume it is moonlight or max. Really I can usually find an in-between but to me there is no point in trying to distinguish 50 lumens or 150 lumens.
I could make the claim that there are only 2 importaint modes for me, One that does not affect my night vision and lasts many hours, and one that is bright enough to see whatever I need to see at a distance.
Really having four outputs on a >1000 lumen light and not one dimmer than 1 lumen is a bit poor mode spacing IMO.

Really I would not carry a multimode light that does not have a dim mode. The one exception being a thrower that will only be used to light up at a distance.

 

[hiuintahs]

Not everyone has the same personal preferences and that's cool. I prefer 2ish lumen low modes better than sub 1 lumen firefly......

Same with me. And also need to have the proper spacing of modes.

 

[Gryffin]

I think in all honesty people "like the idea" of these uber low modes and justify them illogically

It's not just an "idea", its capability. Yeah, most of my usage is in low/medium modes, but there *are* times I need either more or less light. I might not need moonlight or super-duper-turbo all the time, but when I do need then, I NEED them.

Better to have the capability and not need it,than to need it and not have it. It's not like added modes add weight or expanse to a light, fercryinoutloud. Don't like 'em? Don't use 'em. But don't try to force *your* rationale on the rest of us, our needs aren't your needs.

 

[eh4]

L3 L10 4 mode Nichia has a moon mode that's roughly comparable to the lowest firefly of my H600wMkII, in that the H600 has a lot more reflector and throws quite a bit better.
I'll use one or the other interchangeably for an hour or more a night many nights, and for just a few minutes cumulatively but dozens of times pretty much every night, and charge the batteries every 2-6 weeks whether I need to or not.

I don't experience dark adapted eyesight as anything like a binary phenomena. There's many gradations between noonday vision and fully adapted starlight peripheral/stumble reduction vision. The lowest ZL firefly is about useless to me too when I'm mostly day acclimated but it's every bit as bright as I'd want for lighting anything within arm's reach once the sun's been down for an hour or two, it could be lower. -Another reason the ZL MkIII's look so appealing. (my mistake, they don't go lower than MkII, .01L)
Sometimes I need the med modes, and rarely I'll need high modes, and I'm really glad to know that if I do need high, I'll have virtually the entire battery capacity available for it if needed.

With inverse square mode spacing, assume a 400 lumen light with a beam profile that is useful to you at 100 yards: 400L/100yd, 100L/50yd, 25L/25yd, 6L/13yd, 1.5L/6yd, .4L/1.5yd, .1L/2+ft, .025L/1ft, .006L/.5ft... There you have it, roughly.
Holding the firefly light close to the object that you're viewing changes the situation quite a bit as well...
You're illuminating an object 4ft away, hold the light 2 ft closer and it's getting 4x the illumination, at 1ft it's receiving 16x, at 6in that's 64x, making the object that's 4ft away but illuminated by .006L 6in from it just as visible as it would be if viewed with the same beam profile headlamp of around .4L.