GE HIR

[Sadden]

Hello everyone.

My father just picked up some 9012 HIRs to replace the 9006 lowbeams in his S10 after my reccomendatition. He ordered them from a local GM dealership and he received GE bulbs. But not the long ones with the external return wire. They actaully look like a standard halogen.

The bulbs do appear to have some kind of coating on the glass. It has a bronzeish hue to it depending on the lighting. I will upload some pictures tommorow.

Can anyone give me some more information on these bulbs? I thought GE 9012s were long out of production?

-Do the standard looking versions have the IR coating?
-How do they stack up vs the Philipps and Toshiba versions?

 

[dwmilton]

I'm not sure how the GE's stack up, but can tell you that yes, the HIRs will look like standard bulbs physically. The translucent/iridescent coating was common on HIR bulbs, however many newer ones no longer use it.

 

[-Virgil-]

Hello everyone.

My father just picked up some 9012 HIRs to replace the 9006 lowbeams in his S10 after my reccomendatition. He ordered them from a local GM dealership and he received GE bulbs. But not the long ones with the external return wire. They actaully look like a standard halogen.

That's interesting. I have my guess as to what they are, but I'd rather not post guesses. Better to look at pics and describe what I see.

Pretty good odds you gave your father a bum steer, by the way. You don't mention what year the S10 is, but most S10 headlamps produce a lot of glare and backscatter even with standard bulbs, which will be greatly aggravated with HIR bulbs.

 

[Sadden]

Well here are the pictures, struggled to get an accurate shot of the bulb coating, but theres definately something there. Kinda a bronzeish reddish color..

And the base...

So how do these compare to toshiba/philipps models? Lifespan/Lumens/Coating/Filament Winding?
Theres a few more available, is it worth grabbing them if they arent being made anymore?

 

[Oogabooga]

the bulb coating, but theres definately something there. Kinda a bronzeish reddish color..

Reminds me of how they add gold to windows in some highrises to help reflect infrared to reduce AC loads. Maybe this is something similar to reflect infrared emitted back onto the coil to increase the visible light emitted from the bulb?

 

[-Virgil-]

Curiouser and curiouser. 54430 is a correctly-formatted Tungsram/GE vehicle bulb number, but I come up snake eyes (no results) with a Google search. What GM part number did your father order or receive?

GE/Tungsram bulbs are generally of good quality. I don't have data on these particular bulbs; they might outperform the Philips LL version, but are probably outperformed by the Vosla +30 version.

 

[Sadden]

I called and asked if they stocked 9012 bulbs, i was just going out on a limb trying to source them locally. They said they had some GE branded ones in stock and I just ordered them figuring they were the old style with external return wires.

I can go and do some more digging tomorrow possibly.

I honestly think these are old stock. From what I was able to find the original GE bulbs were failing due to vibration issues. So i suspect that these are what GE produced prior to selling the patent rights to Toshiba. These bulbs could have been sitting on the shelf for years. At least thats the closest I can guess, like you Virgil i turned up almost nothing...

I think I am going to buy up whatever they have left, I suspect whenever they restock 10 years from now they will end up with the Philips bulbs.

On that note we need to do an HIR shootout.

Vosla/Toshiba/GE/Philips

I lack a lux meter and the time, but if someone were interested in lining them all up I'm sure i could supply a pair of these. I think I might have a line on some of the old style GE's with the external return wire as well.

 

[-Virgil-]

I honestly think these are old stock.

I don't. If they were old stock, they would be the external-wire type you had in mind, and they would be really old (from the 1990s). These are new/current production. Potentially they're supplied by GE to GM for original and/or official-replacement purposes. That's why I'm curious what GM part number they carry.

i suspect that these are what GE produced prior to selling the patent rights to Toshiba

First off, no, that's not it. Second off, GE did not sell the patent rights to Toshiba. The two companies were intertwined at the corporate level and there was a great deal of technology-sharing going on. I have noticed (and been reminded today with my googling prompted by this thread) that there is a big amount of mythology and ghost stories about HIR bulbs. Claims that the Toshiba bulbs are "real HIRs" and nothing else is...claims that GE "sold the patent rights", claims that the bulbs were "originally designated as 9011 until 1997 when the Europeans renamed the standard to HIR1", claims that the Philips bulbs "aren't real HIRs", on and on and on...none of it's true.

These bulbs could have been sitting on the shelf for years.

No, they really couldn't have. The design details are new enough to scotch that theory...not to mention the QR code; those didn't start showing up on bulbs until very recently.

I think I am going to buy up whatever they have left, I suspect whenever they restock 10 years from now they will end up with the Philips bulbs.

Pardon my French, but that seems silly. For one thing, why are you all "Oh, no, I'll only be able to get Philips bulbs"? And what makes you think the GEs, about which you know nothing, are special and extra-excellent and worth hoarding? And remember, the Vosla standard and +30 bulbs are readily available. The +30s are known to give better output than the standard bulbs.

On that note we need to do an HIR shootout. Vosla/Toshiba/GE/Philips

Sure. That'll call for the use of an integrating sphere.

I might have a line on some of the old style GE's with the external return wire as well.

There have been some imitations of those. What did you see?

 

[Sadden]

Thanks for clearing up some of the misinformation Virgil.

I thought about the QR code and came to the same conclusion as you last night before bed. So if these are current production I wont be buying up the last of them. I have nothing against the Philips bulbs, I thought at the time of that comment that these might be old and/or rare and would have purchased them for testing/collecting purposes.

With all of that said these must be current production from GE which makes it even more interesting. They arent advertised anywhere, not even online.


So onto the coating.. The Original GE's and the Toshibas had the bulbous shape in order to accurately direct the IR back onto the filament. These bulbs lack the bulbous shape but still have some kind of coating on them. And the coating has a different hue than the originals. Any idea if its a IR coating or something else?

I miss spoke earlier. These were not sourced from a GM dealership but from a local parts store. They deal mostly in AC Delco parts but the bulbs came in standard GE packaging (cardboard backing with plastic glued to the cardboard trapping the bulb). But has been disposed of already before I thought to get a picture of it.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Sadden,

Remember, we'd still like the model year of S10 you're talking about, so we know if the glare control is good enough for such a bulb-- even in the absence of other traffic, the backscatter created can be problematic for the driver.

 

[SubLGT]

...He ordered them from a local GM dealership and he received GE bulbs. But not the long ones with the external return wire...

Never seen or heard of an "external return wire" on a bulb. What is it?

 

[-Virgil-]

With all of that said these must be current production from GE which makes it even more interesting. They arent advertised anywhere, not even online.

Well, no, but then again, why would they be advertised? Nobody advertises regular 9006 bulbs or 9004 bulbs or 9007 bulbs, either. They're all commodity items.

So onto the coating.. The Original GE's and the Toshibas had the bulbous shape in order to accurately direct the IR back onto the filament. These bulbs lack the bulbous shape

There have been many tubular HIR bulbs. GE had a line of HIR linear halogen bulbs, the kind used in torchieres (the dangerous kind) and work lights (now rendered obsolete by LED work lights). The claim to fame was a 350w HIR bulb would give the same output as a 500w regular bulb, with equal or longer life.

but still have some kind of coating on them. And the coating has a different hue than the originals. Any idea if its a IR coating or something else?

It wouldn't be anything else.

I miss spoke earlier. These were not sourced from a GM dealership but from a local parts store. They deal mostly in AC Delco parts but the bulbs came in standard GE packaging (cardboard backing with plastic glued to the cardboard trapping the bulb).

OK...details, please? Was it a chain store or a local independent? Could you go back and get some pics or at least copy some info (UPC code, maybe? North American GE item number?) from them?

Edit: Clearly it's a current production item, as we can see by searching this document for HIR.

Edit2: Got it. GE item number 96484, UPC (EAN) 043168964845, product code 9012/BP ("9012 bulb in a blister package"). "Rated life" 450 hours (no word on whether that's B3, B50, or Tc), mean spherical candlepower 135 (=1696 lumens, which yep, the regulated spec is 1700 +/- 15% at 12.8v), power 60w (yep again, that's the regulated spec at 12.8v).

As for availability: here on Ebay, here on Finditparts, here on some other site, here on CarID.

(the GE item number for the old external-wire HIR2 was 41495, and its UPC/EAN was 043168414951.)

 

[Sadden]

Thanks for the information Virgil!

So not really a top performer, especially considering that they do have the IR coating. The retailer is a small local place, 3 or 4 locations in northern AB/BC.

I went back today and found them, heres some pics of the bulb and packaging.





Doing some reading it looks like GM is switching to Vosla +30 bulbs. There is a TSB for 2014-2015 Sierras to replace with the updated Vosla +30 bulbs and a BCM update to up the voltage to bulbs, looks like there have been some complaints regarding headlight performance. They were using PhilipsLL prior to this.

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4507

So Vosla +30's should become easier to come by now, most GM dealerships will probably be stocking them in the coming years.

I wonder if we will see +50 or +100 versions in the future...

 

[-Virgil-]

So not really a top performer

I don't see anything in the data that lets us reach that conclusion.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

So not really a top performer, especially considering that they do have the IR coating.

Well, not at the very top (that goes to Vosla right now with their +30 version), but there's no reason whatsoever to avoid those bulbs if you need them and the Voslas aren't easily obtained.

I'd definitely pick them over the Wagner rebrand of the Philips HIR2. (Wagner buys the ones that don't meet Philips' specs (but are still legally compliant).)