"Good" set of driving lights?

[Cheropair]

Mr Stern has the Bosch Compact 100 in a driving beam available, and they are at the upper limit of my budget. He reccomends the Narva Rangepower+50 H3 for bulb. Does anyone know how this combination compares to the Hella 500FF, perhaps with XX bulb?

And for cdrake261, have a 1996 Cherokee on the driveway, wife and I both liked the Hella E-code conversion of 12 years ago, but the reflectors lost their shine. Replaced with the linked GE (at about twice the linked price) Nighthawks, happy with those for along the edges, dunno if they have quite the throw - for that Jeep they are great, rarely over 55 mph.

 

[opposite locker]

Never tried Hella 500FF, but the Bosch C100 w/Rangepowers are far better at pulling the light where it's needed than my previous Hella 500's w/whatever bulbs they originally came with. With unlimited space, I'd probably spend a bit more and go with Hella Rallye 4000's in a euro beam.

 

[Lightdoctor]

I've got a 2004 Toyota Tacoma, and if you've ever noticed there is a gap on either side of the license plate. What I did was move the license plate up and install 3 Hella FF75 driving lights with Osram 65W Rallye H7s and 2 Hella Micro DE fog lights in that space. The FF75s really light up the road ahead with those Osram rallye bulbs when driving country back roads.

 

[cdrake261]

you guys are making me want to upgrade my headlights

 

[RedShift42]

With crosseye, you get some distance punch on/above the road, like the old "finger of light" that used to be advertised back when a certain type of sealed-beam headlamp came on the market, and your beams diverge to show the roadsides and curves starting at a usefully distant range in front of the vehicle. With walleye, you don't get distance punch and the beams diverge right at the vehicle, which means you're wasting light on areas too close to the car to be relevant once you're above about 30 mph.

At the risk of thread hijacking, would crosseye aiming be the recommended approach for moose-spotting too?

The tricky part with moose is their coats absorb light and their eyes have almost no reflective shine. Those buggers are near invisible until they're in the middle of the lane. I've fiddled w/ my aux lighting aim but haven't found a method I'm fully satisfied with. Hmm, maybe I just need more lighting...?

 

[Hamilton Felix]

That's a good question. In my VFD days, I heard about emergency vehicles in Alaska that ran spotlights in both A pillars, aimed down the ditches to spot moose. But pillar spotlights are wider apart and higher than most headlights and driving lights.

If you want to see animals in the ditches, you want to spot them while they are still some distance away. So that means Scheinwerfermann's comment is spot on. The spread on your regular high beams, as well as spill from driving lights, is probably good enough that you are not losing too much "ditch light" up close by aiming crosseyed.

 

[-Virgil-]

At the risk of thread hijacking, would crosseye aiming be the recommended approach for moose-spotting too?

Yes. Keep in mind the amount of toe-in ("cross eye") we're talking about is small. Don't do it randomly; use trigonometry to figure out how far ahead you want the beams to cross, then aim them to that figure.

 

[Samy]

I am not too much a fan of distance spotlights, i'll tell you why. I've used a few different types and i have found that floodier lights are better while driving. The worst exaggeration of long range lights was when i used to run a set of Lightforce 240 Blitz. Really nice lights, looked great, and they had range of 1klm or so. Very expensive ($400/pair) and very big and very highly recommended:

Oversize

After a while i realized that i didn't get an improvement in side of road lighting. I tried the 'spread' and 'fog' covers available for them to no avail. Hey, 1klm down the road no worries but unfortunately i don't have binoculars for eyes. If a roo or deer jumped out 100 metres in front of me i wouldn't have seen it any better than with the standard car headlights. I sold the Lightforce lights after a little while, for about what i paid for them because they're so highly sought after. People here rave about them, but that kind of light is for bragging rights more than practical driving use. Users of these lights can't see past the 'wow' factor of distance.

People rave 'my driving lights can get x amount of hundres of metres down the road" but in reality that's pretty darn useless. If an animal walks out in front of you 800-1000metres down the road you probably wouldn't see it anyway even if it's fully lit up - that's too far away. You want to see what's happening on the sides of the roads in the bushes and drain areas within a few hundred metres.

I next plan to get a set of led driving lights. They don't get the rave reviews here because they don't get the "big useless distance" but they're apparently very good flood lights, which is what counts most when driving!

cheers

 

[TEEJ]

The "big useless distance" is for racing, where you need that much reaction time because you traveling over 50 meters per second, and need to anticipate and pick a line to get through whatever's ahead of you - which means you might need to see 500 -1,000 meters at a time to set up for a series of high speed maneuvers, etc.

If you are at normal street speeds, no matter what you drive, you are going closer to 25 meters per second than to 50...and have twice the reaction time for the same distance, and, typically only have to worry about animals and traffic, with the option of simply stopping if things look scary...not how to carve between them all at high speed.

Off road in a jeep, over rough terrain, well, its more slow motion than high speed typically...so flood is more useful.


The cross-eye vs wall-eye thing is right too...crossed is better, but, you do want to pick where it crosses, so that the light isn't wasted as a way to see what you will hit, instead of used to spot stuff to not hit.

 

[-Virgil-]

Samy, I agree with you that long distance reach isn't necessarily the most important performance factor in an auxiliary high beam ("driving") lamp. Of course, the relative importance of distance and of spread will depend on the kind of vehicle, the kinds of roads (or none at all), and the speeds involved.

Beyond that, two things:

1. Lightforce lights have very enthusiastic marketers and they do have some staunch defenders but generally don't have a very good reputation amongst the cognoscenti on this board, largely due to their bogus and unscientific claims.

2. Driving lamps or no driving lamps, your lighting will be much improved if you replace the Hella motorcycle (yes!) headlamps Chrysler foolishly specified for export Jeep Wranglers with some better ones. For left-traffic use in Australia, Toyota part number 90981-01037 is quite excellent but has no provision for parking (front position, "side") light bulb so you'd either need to move that function elsewhere or pick a different lamp such as Valeo 082439, an excellent Cibie unit. Those (specific) Hella lamps are of disappointingly inefficient and not very well focused.

 

[TJJP77]

Driving lamps or no driving lamps, your lighting will be much improved if you replace the Hella motorcycle (yes!) headlamps Chrysler foolishly specified for export Jeep Wranglers with some better ones.

Ha! At least those Hellas are better than what US spec Wranglers came with! Anything is an improvement over the lousy Wagner sealed beams that we got.

 

[-Virgil-]

Ha! At least those Hellas are better than what US spec Wranglers came with!

Not objectively, they aren't. They're differently/equally inadequate.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I suppose one might say the Hellas can be improved a bit, where the sealed beam leaves few options. I used to think they were all good, back in the day when H4 Cibie, Marchal or Hella compared very well with what else there was. Hella was my fallback if I couldn't get Cibie or Marchal. But now, 35+ years later, I have a set of 200mm rectangular Hella headlights that I find underwhelming. I think good wiring, relays and some upgraded bulbs will definitely improve them a bit. But that truck will eventually end up with auxiliary lights. We do have more options today, if one can only sort through all the bling/gargage to find the good stuff.

 

[-Virgil-]

The Hella lamps' output is (objectively) pathetic and just plain not adequate for any kind of realistic speeds -- a low beam max of around 11,000 candela at 13.2v, located far off to the right, just cannot give the driver enough seeing distance above about 30 to 35 mph depending on aim angle. Many other H4 lamps are similarly inadequate. The optics have to be really, really good when you can only use about half the total lens/reflector area on low beam, and that is a limitation of the H4 system. Of course, you get paid back on high beam because you have about half the lens/reflector dedicated to high beam exclusively, but most driving is done on low beam.

35+ years later, I have a set of 200mm rectangular Hella headlights that I find underwhelming.

You're right, they are. All the same inadequacies as the 7" round version.

But that truck will eventually end up with auxiliary lights.

Why not better headlamps first? Cibies or Koitos or Bosches or (if you can find a set, maybe from Stern or another hoarder) Marchals?

We do have more options today, if one can only sort through all the bling/gargage to find the good stuff.

Yes and no. "Yes" the raw count of lamps in any given form factor is higher today, but "no" most of it is garbage, but "yes" we have things today (such as legitimate and good BiXenon and LED options) that we didn't used to have, but "no" the really good H4s (e.g. Marchals and Carellos) are no longer available unless you stumble on new old stock...

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I sold the Lightforce lights after a little while, for about what i paid for them because they're so highly sought after. People here rave about them, but that kind of light is for bragging rights more than practical driving use.

That's something that still takes difficulty to understand. A product can be demonstrably inferior in almost every way, but people will still seek it and parade it around. It worked out to YOUR advantage, though

 

[Hamilton Felix]

It is amazing, Alaric. Says something about human nature, I suppose. To many, there is a certain cachet to a name, whether it's a woman with a Gucci bag, a motorcyclist with PIAA lights or a Jeeper with LightForce. Sure, LightForce throws some light waaay out there. So does an aircraft landing light, but landing lights are pretty crappy road lights and they don't last. At times I think those of us who care most about function are in a minority. Heck, I suppose I could admit to being a bit of a Cibie Marchal snob - but that's really a preference acquired because most of them work very well.


Scheinwerfermann, you have a point. Even with limited budget, I should save a few pennies and look for better lights for my pickup. As luck would have it, my shelves have a number of Marchal 950, Cibie 175, pair of Cibie 190 drivers, but few good headlights at present. For some odd reason, I even have one more unused 200mm Hella H4 headlight in a gradually fading Hella box. I do feel that even an occasionally used truck deserves good lights. After all, it gets used when I really need it, either to haul something heavy or to deal with weather and road conditions that require a heavy 4x4. I must confess curiousity about Koito, never having used any (that I know of, though I may have seen that name somewhere on a Toyota headlight). And for about the millionth time, I wish the Cibie Z-beam had not gone out of production. Are the Bobi lights gone, too? Back before the law changed, allowing other than sealed beams in America, I put a set of 7" Bobi headlights into an ambulance. I believe they made a 200mm rectangular Bobi, too. You have to lose a bit of light with that extra glass balloon, but the beam was fine Cibie optics and I believe the pattern was Z-beam.

 

[Hilldweller]

It is amazing, Alaric. Says something about human nature, I suppose. To many, there is a certain cachet to a name, whether it's a woman with a Gucci bag, a motorcyclist with PIAA lights or a Jeeper with LightForce. Sure, LightForce throws some light waaay out there. So does an aircraft landing light, but landing lights are pretty crappy road lights and they don't last. At times I think those of us who care most about function are in a minority. Heck, I suppose I could admit to being a bit of a Cibie Marchal snob - but that's really a preference acquired because most of them work very well.

...

It's the big LED lightbars that the kids want right now.
Ever see them in action? Talk about lack of focus.

This is a guy I know. Not only does he have two big lightbars but that's an illegal HID kit in there too.
And he's starting up a company to sell this stuff...

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Hmm... I got the little red X. Maybe I'll try again from home.

Does this guy even care that what he's selling is illegal? I should think the liability involved in selling this stuff would be even greater than that faced by an end user.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I think the link requires the person to be logged in to Expedition Portal to follow it.

 

[Hilldweller]

https://www.expedіtіonlіghtіng.org/

LED lightbars and Lightforce on the rigs in the photo section.
No HID systems on his sale area. We can hope.

I like the LED lightbars offroad. They're small and throw stinkloads of light around. They're great for driving very very slowly.
But for street? Is it even legal to run around with them uncovered on the road?