help me find some binoculars?

[GLOCK18]

Need some advice on a couple of BINOCULARS I am looking at buying just one of these.

1.LEUPOLD GOLDEN RING HD 8X42 MM
2.LEUPOLD GOLDEN RING HD 10X42 MM
3.Canon 15x50 IS UD 4.5* Image Stabilizer
4.Canon 18x50 IS Image Stabilizer
5.Zeiss Victory 8x42 T*FL

I understand the Canon is completely different animal.

 

[Patriot]

The FL's are cream of the crop and the Leupold's are a fantastic value. Actually, I'd rate the Leupold HD's best of any roof prism bin under $1000. Unless you can find a new old stock Leica Trinovid for that price which might have very slightly better contrast. That said, the HD's are slightly brighter than the Trinovid.

With regards to magnification that really depends on what you'll be using them for. There is a big difference between 8x and 10x even though the numbers wouldn't seem to imply so. I often use 10x from a tripod or sand bag or even resting on my day pack. If you have to stare for long periods of time studying tiny details on axis (center of the field of view) the 10x will be a little better. For all purpose viewing the 8x will have less image distortion, larger exit pupils, and provide more overall viewing comfort. This means that they'll have more forgiveness as far as eye placement goes and the reward is less eye fatigue.

You got that right about the Canon's The image quality in the Canon's is soft compared two the other bins you mentioned. It's made worse when the IS is operating which induces a slight digital shift or stutter when it's compensating for the heaviest of movements.

When it comes to image stabilization it's mostly cons. They do one thing better and that's to provide a potentially better view from a moving position. If you were planing on using them from a boat or doing undercover work from a moving car I'd say get the Canon 10X40IS. IS allows you to get a steadier view offhand but Canon sacrifices too much in optical quality to give us the technology. I suspect that they needed to offer the line at competitive price and so they had to cut some corners. Zeiss is the only maker of the "big three" (Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss) to have produced IS bins and they were close to $5000. They are not made anymore due to high production cost and slow sales.

If money is no option I'd get the Zeiss FL, or Swarovski EL with new field flattener. If you're looking for value the Leupold is one amazing deal with no real downside. The brown body color is different but really grows on you after a while. Mine were on loan for two weeks (8x42's) but they were hard to ship back after I was done with them. :sigh:

 

[GLOCK18]

Patriot36, thanks for your response, I think the canons are out I am down to 2 is there a big difference between the HD and the Switch. I would like more power at times but not at the cost of clarity

LEUPOLD GOLDEN RING HD 8X42 found them for $650.00

Leupold 10/17x42 Golden Ring Switch

Thanks


I am currently using a Zeiss 10x25B Monocular

 

[Patriot]

Resolution actually increases when going to 10x but at the cost of more field distortion and less field of view (FOV). The image in the 10's will also be slightly more soft (out of focus) the further you get of axis (off the center of FOV).

I've haven't had my paws on a set of Switches yet but on paper there are some compromises as well as actual practicality. At 17x these bins will be nearly useless unless you're going to be using them on a tripod mount. 17x is monster magnification with regards to bins and most serious birders would never touch 12x bins without mounting them on a good tripod. I have 15x Swarovski's and don't think I've ever viewed through them more that a couple of seconds without using a tripod. It would just be silly since there is so much that couldn't be seen due to shake. In order to make the dual magnification work the optical geometry dictates that some light transmission will be sacrificed and there is also a notable reduction in the FOV. One of the gorgeous features of the HD is the large FOV and with the Switches you loose that. At 262 FOV they fall below many less expensive straight 10x bins. The size of the exit pupil at 17x is a mere 2.47mm which would cause the user to struggle during dusk, dawn, and possibly overcast conditions at higher magnification. During low light your pupils will open to 5-7mm trying to pass as much light as possible but the delivery is still 2.47mm of light into the eye. Yes, you can turn it back to down to 10x at times like this but now you're carrying around compromised bin compared to the view through the straight 10x. If you're not going to be using them with a tripod most of the time I wouldn't even consider them. Even if I was going to tripod mount them, I'd rather look through an uncompromised 10x and purchase a second bin for higher power applications. The relatively inexpensive Pentax PFC 20x60 for example gives almost as much FOV at 20x as the Switches do at 17x. They'll also be brighter and have a sharper image than the Switches at 17x. Basically, for less money you could own a set of Leupold 10x HD's and also a second higher magnification bin like the Pentax 12x50 PFC, both of which will give a better image at the respective magnification.

There is also a phenomenon that I refer to as new bin magic. When you first get them and look through them it's all...."wow" "geez" "awesome" "holy smokes." Then after a few months or so of seasoned and studied viewing you're looking through them and notice this or that little thing. Maybe you're trying to see something very tiny at extreme range or trying to read a sign way out there and think to yourself, "I wonder if the other binocular would be just a little bit better, a little sharper, a little brighter, provide a bit more contrast?" This is especially true when viewing with a tripod which allows small differences to be seen that you'd never notice while hand held. I often have criticized all of my "big three" bins for one thing or another. The best bins also have rather low resolution when compared to a high quality refractor telescope. Binoculars are a design of optical compromises which have to balance magnification, FOV with off axis sharpness, eye relief and many other factors. Each manufacturer does it a little bit differently, even among highest level optics. This is just one more reason why I prefer single stage bins because the "I wonder if there's something better" stage is going to set in a lot quicker with the dual magnification bins. If you were to spend over $2000 for the Leica Duovid the optical handicap will be much less but at least you'd know it was the best dual magnification bin money could buy. Leica also wisely limited the magnification differential to 8-12x and 10x15x.

$650 for new 8x42's Gold Ring's is a great price btw. That would be nearly impossible for me to resist.

For another point of view:
http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Leupold-Golden-Ring-8x42.php

Just out of curiousity, did they also have 8x32 HD's and if so how much did they cost.

Thanks

 

[GLOCK18]

This is what I found so far.

LEUPOLD GOLDEN RING HD 8X32 MM BINOCULARS 62800 $600.00

LEUPOLD GOLDEN RING HD 8X42 MM BINOCULARS 62810 $650.00

Nikon 8x42 Premier LX $720.00

I readthe reviews on Better View desired, very helpful, I tend to go for 10x but I see its not the way to go.

 

[Patriot]

Wayne Mones is a cool guy and gives a good objective review. I didn't agree with him on every single thing in the Gold Ring write up and he's also champions Nikon quite often, but it's always nice to have more than one opinion.

The magnification issue is always debated on the hunting forums and I think that Americans got marketed in 10x bins throughout the 60's, 70's, & 80's. "Joe blow's sporting goods" is more than happy to ignorantly perpetuate the trend because their daddy used 10s and their daddy's dad used 10s before that. The fact was, they didn't have as many choices back then.

There used to be little European influence during that time period. Zeiss was always there but the tended to give Americans what they wanted...more 10 powers. I think the folks in the birding community are more realistic and understand that 7, 8, & 8.5X are the best birding magnifications which also translates into the best all around magnification. I own a Swarovski 10x42EL but I normally carry a lightweight tripod in order to take full advantage of them. They are after all considered to be "high power" bins. When I'm hand holding bins I'm usually using 7 or 8 power.

Those are good prices on all three optics. You can't go wrong with any of them. I've become a fan of the 8x32 size because they work well for 90% of the time I spend behind the glass. You'll have to decide if you need the extra size and weight of the 42mm and the GoldRing HD's are pretty stout. They're not light like the Zeiss or Nikon LX 42mm bins. I think Wayne makes mention of it in his review also. Optically, you'll be very pleased with any of them.

 

[Patriot]

Just thought I'd post a few pics that I recently took that shows the versatility of the tripod and double camera plate.


Leica Televid 77 APO and Swarovski 15x56s. The bins are fixed once strapped down but the scope with Manfrotto ball head can be co-axially aligned to the same position where the bins are pointed. That way, when you move between the bins and scope, you don't have to re-aim the tripod head.

These are the Leica 8x32 and Swarosksi 10X42 EL. The ball head once again can be adjusted to align co-axially with the fixed optic.

Microfire 35W HID combined with Swarovski 15x56

Leica 8x32 with Polarion PH50, This is a great combo because the Polarion's corona completely fills the field of view in the 8x leica.

This set-up lets you view things while grabbing a few snap shots.

This set-up allows you enough light to photograph objects out to a reasonable distance.

Enjoy.

 

[Patriot]

A month or so ago while out shooting with family, our picnic table was accidentally knocked over and my Leica 8x32's fell top down, onto the ground in powdery dirt and forest ash. I didn't try to clean them there, I just carefully set them aside to clean back at the ranch house. They're fully waterproof so I just ran them under lukewarm running water and dried them off. After cleaning I was thankful to find that the lenses were perfectly untouched and the polycarb body didn't have a mark on it!


Unfortunately when I rotated the focus ring, gone was the glass smooth precision that existed before and now it was terribly gritty. I rewashed the focus area then blew it out with compressed air. Still no luck. It was obvious that there wasn't anything I was going to be able to do to get the dirt out. I had to send them back to the Leica Repair facility on the east coast to get fixed. The rep on the phone warned me ahead of time that it's busy this time of the year and that it could take two months. I thought that was a long time but we'll just wait and see how things play out and how well the "no fault" warranty works out. I let you guys know as soon as I hear something about them.

 

[karlthev]

Ouch, that hurts! Sorry to hear but hopefully all will be well.


Karl

 

[Patriot]

Ouch, that hurts! Sorry to hear but hopefully all will be well.


Karl

Thanks Karl. I felt like I dodged the big bullet when I saw that the lenses and coatings were still perfect. :sweat: They looked so bad after they fell that I had my doubts. They fell into a hole left from burned out pine tree roots that was then collapsed. I wish I would have thought to take a picture of them but I was sort of preoccupied at the time.

 

[Patriot]

Since this is a "help me find" thread. I'll just mention that I'm selling my Doctor 8x30s over in the marketplace.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2407561#post2407561

 

[cy]

Patriot... nice pic's ... good to see a Nikon F still being used.

finally found a pair of binoc's that I really like for deer hunting.
Stiener 8x30 Hunting model. very nice low light performance!
small size/weight is important when one is already hauling a bit of gear.

 

[Patriot]

Thanks, I still use that camera sometimes it's 40 years old and operates like new still, at least that's what my dad said. Used to be his and he passed it down to me for my 18 b-day iirc.


Congrats on the Steiner bins. Good job getting the hunting models because they're a step up optically from the Safari Pro's. Sadly they put under performing ruby coating on the objective lenses of the Safari, which I'll never understand. To my knowledge the Hunter has the same coating as the Military Marine.

One of my first decent sets was the Steiner 8x30 Military Marine, which replaced my 7x50 Tasco Offshores. That's going back about 15-20 years though and I sold them for some reason. I sure like the size of 8x30's and they work fine 90% of the time for my offhand viewing.

Post us a picture if you get the chance

 

[orbital]

.........There used to be little European influence during that time period. Zeiss was always there but the tended to give Americans what they wanted...more 10 powers. I think the folks in the birding community are more realistic and understand that 7, 8, & 8.5X are the best birding magnifications which also translates into the best all around magnification. I own a Swarovski 10x42EL but I normally carry a lightweight tripod in order to take full advantage of them. They are after all considered to be "high power" bins. When I'm hand holding bins I'm usually using 7 or 8 power.....

+

Patriot, thanks for your detailed posts, very helpful.
I know roof bins have come along way with ED glass and lens coatings ect..

Do you think porros will make a bit of a comeback?,
they don't need to be phase corrected and you often get a huge FOV for the $.
Thinking about 7X35 porros as a gift for my niece
{not sure if they'd be cool enough for her}

BTW, I have pair of Vipers

 

[Patriot]

A "comeback?" Well, they really never went away, as you know. They've always been the way to go when it comes to getting performance at a value price. As the manufacturing processes for roof prisms continues to be easier for more manufacturers to attain and still produce a quality image, I suspect we'll see product line percentage ratios steadily decrease in porro models, as they've been doing for decades. Roof's are typically lighter, smaller, more robust and more water/fog proof/resistant. Qualities like these are what so many outdoor enthusiasts are after these days and the sub $300 price point of the Nikon Monarchs pretty much dominates the arena. They'll basically match the optical performance of any porro at or below the same price, therefore, people often get the Monarch or spend half as much on a porro, with the exception being the higher end birding porro's like Swift, Nikon SE's and Fujinon's. Fortunately though, the Porro will never go away.

Regarding the 7x35's it sort of depends on how badly she want's binoculars, what she'll be using them for and how old she is. In my experience chicks hate large bins and won't use them on their on fruition. While 7x35's porros may not be large to us dudes, they're a dorky pain in the neck on a 110lb female, understandably. I'd personally shoot for something smaller like the Leupold Yosemite, 8x30 if she's older, 6x30 if she's younger. For something even smaller the Nikon Prostaff 8x25's are pretty much impossible to beat for the price. All of these are less than $120.

The Vipers are excellent bins and compare favorably with Leupold Gold rings but at a much lighter weight. Congrats on your picking them!

 

[Patriot]

A month or so ago while out shooting with family, our picnic table was accidentally knocked over and my Leica 8x32's fell top down, onto the ground in powdery dirt and forest ash. I didn't try to clean them there, I just carefully set them aside to clean back at the ranch house. They're fully waterproof so I just ran them under lukewarm running water and dried them off. After cleaning I was thankful to find that the lenses were perfectly untouched and the polycarb body didn't have a mark on it!


Unfortunately when I rotated the focus ring, gone was the glass smooth precision that existed before and now it was terribly gritty. I rewashed the focus area then blew it out with compressed air. Still no luck. It was obvious that there wasn't anything I was going to be able to do to get the dirt out. I had to send them back to the Leica Repair facility on the east coast to get fixed. The rep on the phone warned me ahead of time that it's busy this time of the year and that it could take two months. I thought that was a long time but we'll just wait and see how things play out and how well the "no fault" warranty works out. I let you guys know as soon as I hear something about them.

Update to damaged Leica 8X32 bins;

Leica did have my bins back in NJ for a full 2 months due to back logged repair work, which they did warn me about. I received them back and I'm always a bit eager or apprehensive to see how everything turned out when I send something back for repair work, whether it's a binocular, knife or automobile. Since I'm so particular about the lenses and coatings, they're of course the first thing that I wanted to look at closely. Upon opening the box, I found that they had wrapped them in a sealed plastic bag which not only showed me that they hadn't been tampered with but that they wouldn't be exposed to dust or grime during shipping. Nice touch, and made me less apprehensive about the objective lenses since they don't have covers. As it turned out all of the lenses were as perfect as when I sent them in. I also, noticed that there wasn't a single mark or finger print anywhere on the bins. They were perfect and looked they there were worked on inside of an operating room. I also had a pair of split rings attached to the stock strap mounts which allow me to quick detach from my slide and flex bino harness. I noticed that they were missing and thought, "oh darn, I'll have to get some new ones." To my surprise they were placed inside of a mini zip lock bag and taped to the inside of the box so they they wouldn't be lost.

Now to the reason I sent it in for, the focus mechanism. In short, it's awesomely smooth with just the right amount of resistance. Not even a hint of catching or grittiness and I would say that the focus now feels even better than when it was brand new. Here is a list of the things Leica performed on my bin when it was there:

1)Repair and adjust focus
2)Adjust collimation
3)Clean optics
4)Clean, lubricate and adjust every function

Wow! All this because I dropped them in a pile of dirt and ashes when the table they were sitting on fell over. The best part of all, "Charges..... 00.0"


In conclusion, I couldn't be more pleased with the service that Leica provided. Yes, they were back logged but the representative warned me up front that it could take up to 60 days and it was. It's great to see that the technicians over a Leica obviously take pride in their work as they really provided a first class repair. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase anything from Leica after seeing the kind of support and professionalism that I have. Great products, great support, great company.

 

[cy]

glad to hear your Leica adventure ended up well....