Inhaled vapors from battery!!!

[LED61]

Hello Jan, Hydrofluoric acid is very dangerous, here is the MSDS for hydrofluoric acid

http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSHydFluoricAcid.html#anchor888417

As I´ve stated before, I am unsure whether this vented out of the cell or not. Seems it was not as apparently the cell has to undergo thermal degradation (heat, fire, explosion) for this to be vented out. But to answer your question about the acid there is the link.
Thanks

Alberto

 

[js]

LED61,

So very glad to hear that you are OK and feeling well at this point. Do you feel as if you've made a 100 percent recovery?

Do you still have the cell in question? I'd love to know how common a dangerous emission due to drop is, and what sort of emission is actually emanating from it, and how dangerous it is. I wonder if NewBie could extract that information from the cell if you mailed it to him?

For the record, I don't have any doubt whatsoever that you experienced something real. Having your wife drive you to the emergency room was prudent and wise. It seems to me that if you had completely forgotten about the incident and were watching a movie or TV, that it COULD NOT have been psychosomatic. Not entirely, anyway.

I'm sorry that you had to endure several insulting and offensively worded posts within this thread, but I'm glad you were able to just ignore them and move on. Also wise and prudent.

 

[LED61]

JS, I don´t have the cell in question anymore, too bad. The last thing I saw before throwing it away is the smell had gone away completely but there was a small quantity of clear liquid on top of the positive button. I don´t know what to think. i don´t trust these Chinese made cells anymore. Even the Sanyo´s.
Thanks for the well wishes by the way. I experienced minor discomforts already posted the day after but then everything went away. I was probably overagressive posting the Hydrofluoric acid thing being vented, as more research has led me to believe this can only happen if the cell undergoes thermal degradation, which was not the case. But it was sure toxic I am 100% sure of that.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello LED,

Keep in mind that it is unusual for a CR123 cell to vent. You indicated that the cell was dropped, and that could have done some damage. I am not a chemist, and can not comment on how HF acid is produced, but it is possible to have a small short inside the cell as a result of physical damage. This small short can generate some heat, and if it get hot enough, can lead to thermal run away. If it does not get hot enough, it just dies away.

In order to get a more accurate idea of what the clear fluid was, perhaps you should have also tasted it...

Tom

 

[IsaacHayes]

I read the MSDS that was posted, and IIRC the electroylte can cause your heart to be stimulated..

I've got a question, which is a little off topic but still related to lithium stuff. When you have an unprotected lithium-ion rechargable, and you allow it to be discharged past it's safe point, is there any hazard of it blowing up/venting? Or will it just make it so it won't ever hold a charge again?

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Isaac,

When you discharge a Li-Ion cell to a low voltage (some say a low voltage is 2.5 OCV, some say 3.0 OCV, and other say 3.3 OCV, so take your choice), the composition of the electrolyte is altered. There is no problem during over discharging. The problem comes the next time you charge it back up.

Capacity is reduced, internal resistance is increased ( which means there will be more heat generated during both charging and discharging), and the risk of small internal shorts is increased due to the changes in the electrolyte. If the small shorts lead to bigger shorts, you end up with thermal run away and rapid venting with flame.

The degree of damage done by an over discharge is directly proportional to the depth of discharge and the amount of time the cell stays in the discharged condition.

Tom

 

[Coop]

First of all, good to see you're allright. Really once again proves that handling batteries should be done with caution.

 

[IsaacHayes]

Thanks Tom. I just ordered a DSD and 2 unprotected cells, (going in a single cell light) so I just need to double check. In a 2 cell light, over discharge could result in reverse charging one cell. But I won't have that setup.

 

[lucio]

do batteries have an odour?

I just received today my e2d,and when i moved it i could ear some kind of a "moving" inside.

i opened the tail and I smelt something(and i left it opened to avoid pressure in case they were really venting). shouldn't a battery have no odour?

i think i'm being paranoid now

 

[Size15's]

do batteries have an odour?

I just received today my e2d,and when i moved it i could ear some kind of a "moving" inside.

i opened the tail and I smelt something(and i left it opened to avoid pressure in case they were really venting). shouldn't a battery have no odour?

i think i'm being paranoid now

Yes, the CR123A batteries have an odour, and if your E2d is a new one with SF123A batteries then any odour you smell can be considered a normal baseline.

 

[lucio]

Yes, the CR123A batteries have an odour, and if your E2d is a new one with SF123A batteries then any odour you smell can be considered a normal baseline.

thanks for the prompt reply!

 

[David_Campen]

do batteries have an odour?

Yes, all Lithium cells have an odour that people here refer to as flashahol. It is from ether like solvents that are used in the electrolyte. You will notice it any time you sniff a battery compartment that has had lithium cells in it. It is nothing to worry about.

 

[Martini]

I am not a chemist, and can not comment on how HF acid is produced, but it is possible to have a small short inside the cell as a result of physical damage.

That's exactly what I was thinking. An internal short from physical shock would not be unheard of. Hydrolysis facilitated by the invasion of moisture into the electrolyte (LiPF6) is one mechanism of HF production in a primary; high-temperature electrolyte degradation is the other. Note that pure HF is used in the manufacture of LiPF6; perhaps poor QC at the factory could result in traces of HF in the battery. I suppose we'll never know for sure what came out of that battery. There are many other chemicals inside a lithium primary that could've affected you as well. If indeed you caused a short, consider yourself lucky that the battery didn't decide to melt a hole in the floor and burn your house down. Then you would've had other things to worry about inhaling.

LED61, I hope you have a speedy recovery. If I were you, I'd be drinking all the water I could stand; it'll help your liver and kidneys do their thing.

 

[LED61]

Thanks Martini, this event is over for me...I'm pretty sure. This thread was revived today by Lucio. Lucio, the flashahol is a normal and common smell it wont hurt you. What I smelled was something different...stronger and uglier. And stupidly from a very short distance from source.

 

[EngrPaul]

Yes, all Lithium cells have an odour that people here refer to as flashahol. It is from ether like solvents that are used in the electrolyte. You will notice it any time you sniff a battery compartment that has had lithium cells in it. It is nothing to worry about.

Thanks for your post. I have been wondering about this!

 

[questwww]

I was soldering a battery CR2032, and it exploded.
More or less, the gas was inhaled. Is it dangerous?
no effect I felt till now (6 hours)
is it okay? any suggestion?

 

[DM51]

Post #1 of this thread gives a good illustration of the potential problem. HF gas is very dangerous if inhaled. My advice to you would be to see a doctor.

 

[LED61]

I've done some digging since that incident a while back, and seems the electrolyte that leaked out was particularly toxic to me, but may not be to other people, depending on the level of threshold. In my case it was definitely not pleasant, at least as a temporary and somewhat delayed reaction (20 minutes). But the substance apparently was not hydrofluoric acid.
In questwww's case though, the battery exploded, and some of that (HF acid odor)may have come out. I'd follow DM51's advice and see a doctor. I belive some liver lab tests would confirm if it is fighting off toxicity.

 

[hopkins]