Kai Buckle Light Run Times

Curious_character

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Here's the brightness of the main beam for the Kai Domain Buckle Light. I've added a plot of the L0D CE (highest setting) for comparison.

The total light output (lumens) of the Kai light is about 75% greater than the L0D CE with a freshly charged NiMH cell.

I did a second run with the same alkaline cell after giving it about an 18 hour rest, then a third run after about another 24 hours of rest. As you can see, there was still a fair amount of energy left in it each time. The amount of energy you can get out of an alkaline cell depends strongly on how you take it out, so a constant run time graph of the light with an alkaline cell only tells you what the light will do if you do actually just turn it on and let it run.


Kai_Buckle.gif


I used a linear scale for the above graph simply because it seems to be traditional on this forum, and using the same scale type makes it easier to compare graphs. But I always plot light intensity graphs for myself on a logarithmic light scale, because the shape of the curve more accurately represents how the eye perceives light intensity. Each time you cut the light intensity in half, it seems like it's dropping by the same increment, rather than by the same ratio. That's exactly what the log plot does -- every reduction by the same factory (for example, cutting in half) is shown as the same distance on the Y axis. I feel that this light's performance with repeated runs using the same alkaline cell is better represented with a log plot, so here's exactly the same data as above, but with a logarithmic instead of linear light scale:

Kai_Buckle_Log.gif

Notice that the distance from 400 to 200 on the Y axis is the same as from 200 to 100 and from 100 to 50. Your perception of brightness is something like this, where if you cut the light in steps of a factor of two, it would look like you're reducing it in equal size, rather than ratio, steps.

c_c
 
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TorchBoy

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Buckle light? To me that's one of those LED things that have a scrolling text message saying something like "My face is more interesting."
 

blinky

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Thanks for the info, c_c. I was gonna get some as gifts but will skip based on your runtime graph. The runtime on alkaline is just too miserable :(
 

Robocop

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I am a little spoiled with most of my lights having regulation however actually do like the buckle light I just received. I have tried it with various batteries and most recent used it to finish off a few alkalines. The Energizer I used in it showed 1.46v and it did fine for about 10 minutes then grew dimmer quick.

This light seems to work the small AAA cells pretty hard and it was brutal on my alkaline. The shocker for me was it continued to make some usable light for over an hour with a nearly dead alkaline. If I remember correct the alkaline showed 0.77v when I stopped and however I put the drained cell back in the light and it did fire up....very dim but it worked so no start up problems under low voltage at least. I ran it about 10 more minutes and it was almost done for but still usable in my dark hallway.
 

kanarie

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humm,
I think it is a great light for people who don't want to run their Fenix LOD CE on Li-ion but still want a higher output and a safe solution.
 

swxb12

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c_c, thanks for taking the time to test this light. I hope that KD makes more of these. I will surely buy them all.
 

Curious_character

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Thanks for doing the runtimes, I've got one on the way and am looking forward to playing with it. It's interesting to see how your light differs from takebeat's

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2073930&postcount=76

His seems to maintain brightness for about 20 minutes on NiMh
Yes, mine takes longer to drop to 50%, about 29 minutes.

You noticed, I'm sure, that the graph you referenced has a logarithmic scale while mine is linear. But it appears that the light output is still a bit flatter than mine but with a little less run time to 50%. So its regulation is a little better but the efficiency is about the same.

c_c
 

Curious_character

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I am a little spoiled with most of my lights having regulation however actually do like the buckle light I just received. I have tried it with various batteries and most recent used it to finish off a few alkalines. The Energizer I used in it showed 1.46v and it did fine for about 10 minutes then grew dimmer quick.

This light seems to work the small AAA cells pretty hard and it was brutal on my alkaline. The shocker for me was it continued to make some usable light for over an hour with a nearly dead alkaline. If I remember correct the alkaline showed 0.77v when I stopped and however I put the drained cell back in the light and it did fire up....very dim but it worked so no start up problems under low voltage at least. I ran it about 10 more minutes and it was almost done for but still usable in my dark hallway.
Two comments. First, the voltage you measured for the energizer was open circuit voltage. At the kind of drain this light takes, its voltage will be lower than a NiMH cell within seconds. More information here.

Second, the total amount of energy you get from a NiMH cell doesn't change very much with different discharge regimens, but the energy you get out of an alkaline cell does. Not only does the discharge current make a big difference (as shown in the linked article), but also whether you discharge it all at once or take it out in small amounts with a rest in between. You can get a lot more from an alkaline cell with small amounts and rests than with a constant discharge. So the graph I posted really only shows how the light performs if you turn it on and leave it on. You'll get a lot longer total run time with an alkaline cell if you use the light more like I do -- turning it on a few seconds at a time now and then to look under a table or at the door lock. To illustrate, I left the light off for about 18 hours after discharging the alkaline cell, then turned it back on. I added the result to the graph I posted earlier. As you can see from the new graph (you might need to click your browser's reload button to see the new plot), there was still quite a bit of energy left in the cell. This process can undoubtedly be repeated several times with of course decreasing light and run time each time, but a whole lot more total usable light.

So don't feel bad about giving these as gifts with an alkaline cell. Just advise the recipient that the battery won't last long if the light is left on for several minutes at a time, and to use NiMH if they intend to use it that way. But for a few seconds here and there, an alkaline cell should last quite a while.

c_c
 

blinky

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What a surprise. Thanks, c_c, for taking the effort to provide us with such useful information. I'll have to get some when the next batch comes in.
 

Robocop

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c_c honestly would have no problems using alkalines in this light and the one I tested was an older cell and probably not in the best condition anyway. I do feel most would use the light in short bursts as you say however I was very suprised with how long the light ran once the alkaline was basically dead. It was very dim but still usable so again I think most would be happy with this light and alkalines.....especially for the cost.
 

Curious_character

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The light has been sitting in the fixture, so I went ahead and did a third run with the same alkaline cell, and added it to the graph. You might have to click your Browser's reload button to see it. I also added a logarithmic scale plot of the same data, because it gives a better picture of the perceived brightness. This makes it easier to compare the apparent brightness with successive runs using the same battery.

c_c
 

gerry45

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Hi,

I have 2 of these lights (second batch). There is a noticeable difference in brightness and amps from a NiMh soshine 900mah.

I got 910mA and 620mA at tailcap. Is that normal?

What are your Amps readings on a freshly charged NiMh?

Thanks!
Erick
 

Curious_character

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Hi,

I have 2 of these lights (second batch). There is a noticeable difference in brightness and amps from a NiMh soshine 900mah.

I got 910mA and 620mA at tailcap. Is that normal?

What are your Amps readings on a freshly charged NiMh?

Thanks!
Erick
I measured right at 1.5 amps with a freshly charged Eneloop NiMH. But I made a meter with a very low 10 mV/A drop. The typical DVM has about 100 mV/A, which could skew the results.

And, all NiMH cells aren't created equal, especially at the near 2C rate involved here. Take a look at this thread. AA cells at 5 amps are working about as hard as AAA cells at 1.5 amps, so you can see how much variation there is by looking at the curves for a 5 amp load. While it doesn't necessarily follow that a manufacturer making good AA cells will also make good AAA cells, I'd say the odds are fair that they do. And the Eneloop is among the best of the AA cells at 5 amps.

c_c
 
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