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[xxo]

Air tags

 

[bbrins]

Don't those rely on wi-fi?

 

[desert.snake]

So you are personally acquainted with children between 2nd grade and eighth grade; which is the age group our camps serve; that would cheerfully tolerate wearing bells like those worn by Morris Dancers on their hiking trips. Really? OK. I myself have no experience with even one single child who would put up with wearing bells on their persons that would ring with every movement they made. These are not pet cats we're talking about. I find the idea of getting children to wear such a thing unworthy of serious consideration. The children would hate it with a purple passion and every one of them who was subjected to it would work rather hard over the following year to get their parents to promise that they would not be sent back to "that place" ever again.

What follows is stuff, you may not want to read, about why we run the camps the way we do. If you should want to look at it just highlight it with your mouse to make it readable.
I prefer our present situation were the children all want to introduce their counselors to their parents on pickup day, drag their parents to meet the cook who had them make a special dish for a camp meal, show them something that they made while at camp, and are already soliciting a promise from their parents that they can come back with all of their friends next year. I enjoy hearing parents say to the cook "You got him to eat what?" And hear the cook say "First he helped cook it. Then he ate it." My daughter came home from her second year at camp and told us she was a vegetarian. We had never discussed that idea with her because we had assumed she was too young to take on that kind of idea. Neither of us are vegetarians. She had come to this conclusion herself after talking with her fellow campers about it. Our camps work really hard on the idea that every single person in the world is worthy of respect. I had not anticipated my daughter extending that idea to animals. Surprise! Neither of the 2 counselors in her cabin were vegetarians. A little group of 5 girls from her cabin came up with this idea themselves. I've known all 5 of these people as adults and none of them went back to being omnivorous. The camp experience is shaped to help campers think about such things for themselves, to treat everyone decently and respectfully, to look out for the needs of others just as quickly as they look out for their own needs. We get some startling results out of this approach. Almost all of our campers continue on into the Teen Adventure Program for high school aged youth. Since I have worked as a chaperon for the high school age year round learning program I have gotten to watch while they plan their own bimonthly retreats, obtain the use of a venue for those weekend gatherings, recruit their own program presenters, purchase their own food, cook it themselves, clean up after their own meals, conduct their own business meetings to organize their program and support each other through their high school years and onward into the Young Adult program, and leave every retreat sight better than they found it.

I have assisted members of our High School age program in discerning what they should do about the requirement that they register for the draft. Some choose not to do so and some choose to comply. We work hard to see to it that it is their decision. I've helped both young people and their parents go through the process of deciding to volunteer for military service. They all know of my Vietnam War Era experience of being threatened with imprisonment for refusing to obey unlawful orders during that war. They make the mistake one after another of assuming I'll talk them out of it. After going through his discernment process one of the guys I counseled with decided that it would not be right to stay safe at home, shielded by his family's better financial position from a need to go into the military to obtain money to go to college, while his classmates decided that was the only way that they would ever get the money for higher education. He volunteered as an Air Force Explosive Ordinance Disposal Technician to clear away the Improvised Explosive Devices (IED)s that are set up by their adversaries to maim and kill others of his age who feel they have to go and fight in order to have a future. I spent his 2 years of combat service, while he was attached to the 82nd Airborne Division of the Army, praying he would return safe. He was brought to that decision by learning to respect both others and himself and part of that teaching occurred in our camping program.
Explanation ends here.

I think I'll look for other methods for keeping our campers safe then roping them to each other like firefighting pack stock that might bolt and run to their own destruction when they smell smoke nor will I hang bells on them as if they are dairy cows. It's all part of the package you see. While I support the camps in teaching them about respect for themselves and others I have to respect them as well.

Tom Horne

I have read everything carefully. Respect for the thoughts and decisions of units and ensuring the safety of units should not be mixed. For example, during the training of the same fur seals, no one will ask their thoughts about the obstacle course and physical training - you just have to go through it. For another example, at the same airport, no one will ask your thoughts about an X-ray or metal detector check.
Children are different, I know a few who would love to play a game of tying or bells. Just need to turn it into a game with certain strict rules. If there is a possibility that children will run away and get lost, which could lead to their death or injury, then it is necessary either to make them visible for quick finding, or to stop the possibility of getting lost, or teach them to do the right thing if they do get lost.
This is just a safety technique, it has nothing to do with respect or disrespect.
It's strange for me to hear that a sentence with bells or chaining when moving from point A to point B, with the possibility of being lost, you consider disrespectful. This is one of the most time tested methods saving lives.

 

[bbrins]

Seeing your location has me thinking we may be seeing some cultural differences here?

In America, we tend to be a bit too independently spirited to be chained together with cowbells around our necks. As a kid, I would have just quietly walked away when they weren't looking and hitchhiked the 600 miles home from camp if they told me I had to wear a freaking bell. I would have looked like the cat that ate the canary the whole way home knowing that all hell was breaking loose behind me when they realized my absence.

I am very thankful that my camp experiences as a child were more like what Mr. Horne described above.

 

[xxo]

Don't those rely on wi-fi?

I think so. A GPS tracker would be better.

 

[bbrins]

You guys do realize that we're discussing a summer church camp for kids here, right? It's not some prison chain gang work camp for unruly youts.

 

[desert.snake]

Seeing your location has me thinking we may be seeing some cultural differences here?

In America, we tend to be a bit too independently spirited to be chained together with cowbells around our necks. As a kid, I would have just quietly walked away when they weren't looking and hitchhiked the 600 miles home from camp if they told me I had to wear a freaking bell. I would have looked like the cat that ate the canary the whole way home knowing that all hell was breaking loose behind me when they realized my absence.

I am very thankful that my camp experiences as a child were more like what Mr. Horne described above.

Most likely you are right, we have more common rather tough discipline and submission to elders. Once I went with my grandfather to the forest, we harvested juniper. I was about 7-8 years old. He told me to be near, otherwise I could get into the swampy part of the forest, then I could drown in the bog, and my parents would die of frustration and my grandmother would simply die of cardiac arrest if I lost or died. I am not lost

Counselors before the law are full responsible for the condition of the wards and their presence, therefore, every effort is made to ensure that they are not lost.

If you do not like methods that definitely do not allow you to lose people, then you can use something else.
It was also suggested equipping all children with GPS trekkers or giving them whistles so that they whistle if they still get lost, and provide reflective patches on clothes. It's easier not to lose sight of them than to walk around with a flashlight later.

I would never risk hitchhiking, I'd rather walk. And drivers almost never stop to pick up hitchhikers.

 

[bykfixer]

Wow!! Just.... wow.

Hey Tom, welcome to the place you can't get 15 people to agree the word Maglite starts with a capital M. We here get lost in what font it uses, the font size, is it bold or not.... is it really just an upside down W, stuff like that.

Want advice? You've certainly come to the right place.

 

[Poppy]

LOL... and here I was going to recommend Coghlan's Bear Bell.
The noise alerts them to your presence so that they are not startled.
Generally they'll move to avoid you. So I am told.
Unfortunately as far as using it to locate a lost camper, I think not so good. If within hearing of the bell ringing, so will he be within shouting distance.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L8H39RP/?tag=cpf0b6-20

 

[knucklegary]

I tend to side with @desert.snake.. Might even go further with the uncontrollable, stick perimeter shock collars on the lil suckers!

 

[Poppy]

As long as we are off track, I might suggest that each child carries at least a fanny pack and in it should be an emergency mylar blanket. Wouldn't it be great if it contained a tyvec coveralls? Lightweight, tear resistant, pretty much rain proof, but breathable. Kinda like a cheap version of gortex. It acts like an extra layer of insulation. Not much, but it blocks the wind so that it is like the outer shell of a three season jacket.

Parent approved bug spray (God forbid they should have an allergy).

On SAR trips, a required piece of equipment is a climbing helmet. Once with the scouts we hiked during the day along a path that was rocky, wet, and covered with wet slippery leaves. I grabbed one parent before he went down, and then I caught myself before I went down. After that trip I recommended that all the scouts should wear helmets. That recommendation went nowhere. But it made an impression on me.

Another piece of required kit is eye protection, either clear or sunglasses. Twice, I got my eye poked with a low lying twig from a tree branch.

 

[alpg88]

Not sure i'd send my kid there if a camp required them wear tracker, emergency fanny packs...., it does not inspire any confidence in management and counselors. Actually i'm pretty sure i wouldn't.

 

[Poppy]

Scouting teaches a kid to "Be Prepared"
When going on a hike they teach to carry water, and if long enough a water purification system/method. Be prepared for changes in weather, and perhaps an unplanned overnight. Near the top of the list is a personal First Aid Kit. Each patrol should have a more extensive patrol first aid kit. Each scout if qualified should have a fire kit, and if qualified a knife and or saw. There is a lot of training and supervision at each level of advancement, but it is what helps to make them better leaders.

While my grandson was still relatively young, he participated in a planned two mile hike. There was a pack out list of things to be carried. He carried everything he needed for an unplanned overnight adventure in a fanny pack. Most of the other kids carried a 30 Quart backpack filled. I had to carry a pack for one of the kids or he wouldn't have completed the trip. LOL... no man left behind.

It was a learning experience.

 

[Poppy]

Here is a discussion on fanny pack bug out bags

Micro bug out bag setups

I've been working on a bug out bag that will keep me alive in the woods for a couple days. Something small enough where it will fit into a normal-looking backpack and still have room for my everyday odds and ends. Keep in mind this photo does not show my waterproof poncho or my down quilt which...

www.candlepowerforums.com

and one of what you can put into an Altoids Tin

Fun with an Altoids tin

I went out and got myself one of those cheap mini-Pelican cases, the 1010, and filled it with first-aid stuff. Mind my asking where you sources the vials and the individual packets of Wet Ones?

www.candlepowerforums.com

 

[kerneldrop]

Malkoff and deadlifts are all thats needed

 

[Poppy]

Malkoff and deadlifts are all thats needed

When I was working with my nephew, using a gas powered post hole digger, doing layouts for his new deck. He said: as a joke, while puffing... "cardio workouts are overrated."

He is an olympic class weightlifter in the clean and jerk category.

Personally I was glad that he was struggling, because so was I. When I commented that I was surprised that he was challenged, he explained that his training is for high explosive, short duration contraction. Not long periods of continuous/multiple contraction/s.

 

[Galane]

What would be ideal for a searching light that would run forever is an LED upgrade for the old blue Ryobi ONE+ 18 volt light. Something that has a smooth and even flood with little to no hot spot. Plug in a 4, 6, or 9 amp hour battery and let there be lots of light.

 

[bbrins]

If your thinking of a power tool light, I'd steer clear of the Milwaukee M12 stuff. The clips on the batteries don't hold up well to abuse. If you drop it and it lands on the battery on a hard surface, you can pretty much guarantee that one or both of those clips, or the housing will break. As they age, the battery clips get weak and sometimes a battery will just drop out of a tool, although this is more prevalent in tools that impact or vibrate, think about someone running with a light.

 

[Kayaker530]

Possibly some useful suggestions:
Every child and staff will start the hike with appropriate outdoor clothing. Every child and staff will be properly hydrated at the start of the adventure and hydration will be maintained during. Every child and staff will at MINIMUM have: A whistle and know The Whistle Code and when to use it, have an emergency space blanket, have a small flashlight or headlamp that they know how to use (even during daylight only hikes), and their own canteen. Strongly consider having the children's lights have a strobe mode.

Of course, provide real training on all of the above, not just a discussion. What should they do if they get separated from the group? This will not only be useful for camp but for the entire lives. Each kid takes home their whistle and teaches their parent(s) and friends.

Others have addressed the searchlight equipment portion better than I am able to. I would only add that if the searchers have a working headlamp it should be trivial to reload the batteries for the searchlight. Having a mindset that the light must be able to run for a certain number of hours at a certain setting without reload might be counterproductive. Searchers need breaks themselves. When you sit down to hydrate, take in some calories, update your notes, re-evaluate your need to call in additional resources, you can reload your light.

Disclaimer: I have never been on a SAR team. I have never been a Scout leader or Camp leader. My experience with children is only that of my own and their friends. I have had emergencies in the outdoors where space blankets and whistles have been useful, strobes somewhat useful. I have searched for forensic evidence at night in foliage and such. I found that a duty quality light Streamlight SL-20XP with I believe about 150 lumens of light and a wide beam was workable. (This is what I was issued at the time). It is much more about the method than the tools.

I do realize that this is a request for hardware recommendations. In that, I would feel comfortable with a light that would put out a beam similar to my Malkoff M61 Neutral and enough batteries to get through one night. That light would be run intermittently with my headlamp that I would use for general use.

 

[bbrins]

Tom,

Those Maglites arrived yesterday evening, I will drop them in the mail to you Monday morning. If you decide that they will meet your needs, let me know, and I can send some more.