Looking to upgrade entire home to LED...

SemiMan

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Some simple realities about lighting:

- CRI is not an absolute measure of quality, it is a relative measurement compared to a blackbody radiator under 5000k and sunlight at 5000k and above. There is nothing natural about tungsten lightbulbs. You never see that spectrum naturally.

- CCT has infinitely way more impact on color perception than CRI. People complain about somewhat "off" reds under 80CRI 2700K. Want to see "off" colors, then compare blue-green carpet under 100cri 2700k and 80+ CRI 4000K. One makes the carpet look muddy and its not the 80CRI light.

- drop most any people into a room where they don't know the light source and they will not know if its 80CRI led, CFL, or 100 incan. Most of the claims made are side by side comparisons, but the real world is 100% one light and fully adapted eyes (to that light). I did this comparison with well over a 100 interior designers and none of them could reliably pick out the 100CRI incan let alone pick out what was supposed to be the bad CFL. I had 4 sources including one incan. Statistically at least a few should have guessed which was which but they all got it wrong and they did not pick the Incan any more reliably than random. This was decorators who should know color.

- I personally have very high CRI lighting in my kitchen at 4000k. It has been shown that at typical indoor levels 4000k is the most "white" light. In the kitchen at typical lighting levels all the colors look right which is nice for cooking.

- Bedrooms are 2700 as blue is bad for sleeping though I do have 4000k for reading.

- living room is 3000k and will convert to warm dimming when a bit cheaper.

- family/home theatre is warm dim pot lights with shields so not much light on screen

- garage, workshop, lab are all high CCT, high CRI. I like to mix 5000 and 6500k tubes. Maybe lower CRI would have worked but the high cri daylight tubes were first i tried and are a pleasure to work under for long hours.

Any time you are doing precision work including reading, higher CCT is desired as it causes the iris in your eye to close improving depth of field, and hence effectively focus and reducing eye strain. It should also be a low flicker source. Typical linear electronic fluorescent and good quality LED troffers are low flicker. Many bulbs are not.
 
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markr6

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Good info there semiman. The one thing I can't get over is the CRI. Between the two Crees I've tried (2700k 80 and 93CRI), only the 93 was acceptable. 80 was dingy and most things appeared a strange hue (carpet, walls, skin, etc)
 

SemiMan

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How much time did you give yourself to adapt to either light. Most of the times those claims are made its a close AB and that emphasizes the added red in the higher CRI unnaturally but its like too much bass.... Seems great to start.

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markr6

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I had 4 bulbs in 2 ceiling lights in the hallway for a couple of weeks. My wife complained from the start, and I never really got used to it. The 93 CRI bulbs are great though. No one would know they're not incandescents, but most importantly I can't tell. Either way, I'm the one living here 24/7 so I don't really care what anyone else would think.
 

SemiMan

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Are the ceiling lights open, clear/clear smoked, alabaster? I do know the 80s can have real issues in commom alabaster ceiling lights.

What brand are they? I do perceive Philips and other bulbs to be a bit better than Cree. Cree had way too much flicker for my tastes.

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MattPete

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nightstand.jpg
[/QUOTE]


This (^^^^) is why I'm not upgrading the rest of my home for a few more years. Yes, I've replaced the BR40s and Br30s in my kitchen, family room, and basement, as they tend to be left on all the time. But, the poor color rendering is making me stick with incadecents/halogens for the rest of the house (not to mention that putting an LED in a closet makes no economic sense).

For giggles, I bought a Solux 3500k Par38 last week. Frankly, the color temperature seemed to be a close match to my Lighting Science 4000k br30 (other bulbs were a halogen BR40, a 5000k Philips, a Lighting Science 3000k bulb, and various 2700k bulbs). Yes, it was definitely whiter, but my wood cabinets looked like picture #2 (above). The LED lights all looked like picture #1.


SORAA is supposed to come out with a BR30 later this year. I'll probably buy one to sample, but I'm guessing I'll wait a year or two for a global price drop before I go full in on high-CRI lighting. When I do that, the low-cri (current stuff) will be moved to closets, the kids bathroom, garage, etc.
 

poiihy

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I like the picture of the nightstand under the cree bulb. The picture of the nightstand under the incandescent bulb looks like the nightstand has some red bloodstain or winestain inside. Under the cree it looks more real.
 

markr6

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I like the picture of the nightstand under the cree bulb. The picture of the nightstand under the incandescent bulb looks like the nightstand has some red bloodstain or winestain inside. Under the cree it looks more real.

Ahh I was waiting for someone to say that!!

TRUST ME, in person it's a night and day difference. The Cree looks SOOOOO wrong. The incandescent isn't so red in person, but rather the proper color of the wood like everything else in that matching bedroom set.

If it was some type of weird wood or maple, I could see the yellowish-green in the first photo being acceptable, but not for a rich, warm oak color.
 

SemiMan

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Ahh I was waiting for someone to say that!!

TRUST ME, in person it's a night and day difference. The Cree looks SOOOOO wrong. The incandescent isn't so red in person, but rather the proper color of the wood like everything else in that matching bedroom set.

If it was some type of weird wood or maple, I could see the yellowish-green in the first photo being acceptable, but not for a rich, warm oak color.

Need a corresponding picture under sunlight for reference.
 

markr6

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Need a corresponding picture under sunlight for reference.

Too much work for me :) Every 15 minutes would give a different color anyway (clouds, atmosphere, etc.) We beat that to death in every other thread. We're talking about a simple bedroom here. What is "right" and "wrong" is pretty obvious to most people, regardless of the reference. We won't be moving this bedroom outside anytime soon. The furniture we picked out in the showroom, while unloading outside, and under incandescent pretty much looked as it should. Under the CREE, nope.
 

MattPete

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...

TRUST ME, in person it's a night and day difference. The Cree looks SOOOOO wrong. The incandescent isn't so red in person, but rather the proper color of the wood like everything else in that matching bedroom set....


My wood cabinets all look the same, whether under incandescent, daylight, or Solux. It's only under 80 cri LED lighting that they lose their saturated brown look and take on that less saturated/more yellowish hue shown in your picture #1.
 
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Anders Hoveland

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Looking to upgrade entire home to LED...
If you have recessed downlights, changing to LED in these fixtures is a great option. Otherwise, whether to upgrade to LED is not so clear cut.

In my personal opinion, LED bulbs are not really ready to replace all the bulbs in our homes. Many people have done it, but there are just many complications and problems. Where LED bulbs make the most sense is in fixtures that get left on all the time, where the quality of light is not too important, and where the bulb it is replacing was not a higher wattage. So for example, in a lamp over the entry way, or in a lamp near a window in the front of the house that you leave on all the time while you are gone to make potential thieves think there is someone home.

I am still using mostly incandescent and halogen bulbs in all the lamps, with the exception of some 3000K 95cri LED bulbs in a bathroom, and a 3000K regular LED bulb in one of the lamps in the computer room that gets left on all the time. Also using LED bulbs in the outside fixtures. I tried regular 2700K and 3000K LED bulbs in the bathroom, and just could not stand the poor CRI. My skin looked a sickly dead tone when I looked at myself in the mirror. So I had to get special high-cri bulbs (were very expensive) and things are much better now. It doesn't feel like all the life and color has been sucked out of the room anymore.

Also I need 100 Watt replacements and most of these higher power LED bulbs would not fit into my lamps because of the wide diameter of their cooling fins.
 
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