MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!! (pics in post 34)

[david86]

I have a 2D Rebel and it seems as bright and tighter hot spot than my G2 with a Cree Q5 from Solarforce in it. If the 3D is about 140 lumens with a Rebel -091 I wonder if the 2D with a Rebel -090 is close to the 3D?

well im not sure if i understand your post or maybe you read mine wrong....? the incandescant 3d with the terralux drop in is rated at 140 lumens....but the rebel still visibly looks brighter...so my assumption is the rebel is maybe 160 lumens??? i dont know..i have no way of testing this officially.

 

[o0o]

I've had mine for months now, and it is exactly what I want.

A metal flashlight that runs on D batteries that can run a long time, and is reliable and well made.

It also can double as a club if the poop hits the fan.

For $30, IMO the Rebel mags are a good buy.

 

[UpChUcK]

I have a 2D Rebel and it seems as bright and tighter hot spot than my G2 with a Cree Q5 from Solarforce in it. If the 3D is about 140 lumens with a Rebel -091 I wonder if the 2D with a Rebel -090 is close to the 3D?

Here's a beamshot comparison between the 2D and 3D (2D on left):

Canon 30D, 21mm, f/8.0, 200 ISO

1/50 sec.

1/100 sec.

1/400 sec.

They are very close in brightness but the 3D just barely edges out the 2D.

 

[deeuubee]

Has anybody found out how many lumens the new Mag Rebel LED is?

I've always been a sucker for Maglites. My first mod, I put a Seoul SSC P4 with a VIP boost driver @ 1000 ma into a 2D Mag . It is still one of the brightest single LED lights I have. (compared to my Lumapower M-1 Rebel and DX VB-16) I have no idea how many lumens it is.

I picked up one of the new 3D Mag LED Rebels and was very impressed with it. It is much brighter than the SSC P4. (Beamshots tommorrow) The bright 4 mode AA was a bonus for the $30.

edit: sorry, I didn't realise how many different places I was talking about this. Runtime and beamshots...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230583&page=2 post#35

 

[Phaserburn]

Has anyone done a runtime plot for the 2D and 3D rebel? I can't believe it that no one has!

 

[Toohotruk]

 

[JamisonM]

Has anyone done a runtime plot for the 2D and 3D rebel? I can't believe it that no one has!

I'd expect runtime to be about the same as the older luxeon maglites. The only difference would be that these will be brighter even with the dimming because of the more efficient rebel emitter.

 

[Phaserburn]

I'd expect runtime to be about the same as the older luxeon maglites. The only difference would be that these will be brighter even with the dimming because of the more efficient rebel emitter.

I don't think so. I believe that the Rebel version is pulling significantly more power from the batteries; therefore, the circuit is different. Runtime should be significantly shorter in regulation.

 

[JamisonM]

I don't think so. I believe that the Rebel version is pulling significantly more power from the batteries; therefore, the circuit is different. Runtime should be significantly shorter in regulation.

I can't say I agree with you. Why would they want to up the current? There still isn't any decent heatsinking to speak of. My opinion is that they are pulling the same, but because of the rebel emitters, are putting out more light. Kind of like what an emitter swap with a P4 would have accomplished. That would have been the most cost effective performance improvement. However, I can't say exactly as I don't have one of both in my hand to test. It wouldn't surprise me if they did what you say though. These lights are a bit different than their older luxeon lights.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I can't say I agree with you. Why would they want to up the current? There still isn't any decent heatsinking to speak of. My opinion is that they are pulling the same, but because of the rebel emitters, are putting out more light. Kind of like what an emitter swap with a P4 would have accomplished. That would have been the most cost effective performance improvement. However, I can't say exactly as I don't have one of both in my hand to test. It wouldn't surprise me if they did what you say though. These lights are a bit different than their older luxeon lights.

what I have seen from replacing emitters in lights is newer emitters that are more efficient also have a considerably lower Vf which makes it easier for more current to flow through them hence higher current draw. They are brighter because of this also. but unless you have more than a simple buck/boost circuit a lower Vf emitter will probably pull more current because it can. Also a lower Vf emitter will operate at lower voltages too if the drive circuit doesn't shut off at some point it can get more juice from the battery before it is unusable.

 

[Phaserburn]

That the rebel is pulling more current (due to the lower vf or circuit change, I don't know which) isn't in debate; it does. With higher draw, the life of the alk Ds at flat regulation won't be nearly as long as with the lower draw of the luxeon model. So, that's why I would like to see a runtime plot of the rebel. I know it's been done for the luxeon models.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I would say a *guess* would be take the power used by the lux, divide it by the power used by the rebel and that would be the runtime in percentage.

 

[JamisonM]

what I have seen from replacing emitters in lights is newer emitters that are more efficient also have a considerably lower Vf which makes it easier for more current to flow through them hence higher current draw. They are brighter because of this also. but unless you have more than a simple buck/boost circuit a lower Vf emitter will probably pull more current because it can. Also a lower Vf emitter will operate at lower voltages too if the drive circuit doesn't shut off at some point it can get more juice from the battery before it is unusable.

Looking at the data sheets, at 700mA, a luxeon III has a vf of 3.7v and a rebel 3.4v. How much of an impact will that have on current draw? I have to say, this is new to me, that if I replaced an older emitter with a newer, more efficient one, the current draw would go up. Got a link to where I can learn more about it?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Looking at the data sheets, at 700mA, a luxeon III has a vf of 3.7v and a rebel 3.4v. How much of an impact will that have on current draw? I have to say, this is new to me, that if I replaced an older emitter with a newer, more efficient one, the current draw would go up. Got a link to where I can learn more about it?

not taking into account battery resistance you could consider the LED like a resistor although they don't exactly act like one in every respect they are close. You can calculate the difference using Ohms Law E=IR where E = voltage, I = amperage, and R = resistance (in ohms).
3.7v @ 700ma R=E/I or 3.7/0.7 = 5.29 ohms
3.4v @ 700ma 3.4/0.7 = 4.86 ohms
depending on the initial voltage if you were to run both at 3.7v you
would get this
first one would be 700ma using I = E/R for the second one (3.4v Vf)
we would get 3.7v/4.86ohms = 760ma or about 8.6% higher current draw.
I would say that this could make it run perhaps 8-10 percent shorter time but the LED would put out slightly more lumens due to the 8.6% higher current applied to it. The power would be as follows
3.7v 700ma = 2.59watts
3.4v 700ma = 2.38watts
3.7v 760ma = 2.81watts so the led would be driven about 18% harder than spec (extra 0.3v, extra 60ma)
now driving it 18% harder it will produce more heat and slightly reduce efficiency due to extra heat loss, that I cannnot calculate without some sort of equation or extrapolating from lower to higher outputs light vs current.

 

[JamisonM]

not taking into account battery resistance you could consider the LED like a resistor although they don't exactly act like one in every respect they are close. You can calculate the difference using Ohms Law E=IR where E = voltage, I = amperage, and R = resistance (in ohms).
3.7v @ 700ma R=E/I or 3.7/0.7 = 5.29 ohms
3.4v @ 700ma 3.4/0.7 = 4.86 ohms
depending on the initial voltage if you were to run both at 3.7v you
would get this
first one would be 700ma using I = E/R for the second one (3.4v Vf)
we would get 3.7v/4.86ohms = 760ma or about 8.6% higher current draw.
I would say that this could make it run perhaps 8-10 percent shorter time but the LED would put out slightly more lumens due to the 8.6% higher current applied to it. The power would be as follows
3.7v 700ma = 2.59watts
3.4v 700ma = 2.38watts
3.7v 760ma = 2.81watts so the led would be driven about 18% harder than spec (extra 0.3v, extra 60ma)
now driving it 18% harder it will produce more heat and slightly reduce efficiency due to extra heat loss, that I cannnot calculate without some sort of equation or extrapolating from lower to higher outputs light vs current.

Let me see. Lets say that the driver is sending 700mA to the LED. At that current, it will have a vf of 3.4v. Right there, that equals 4.86 ohms. So It has less resistance then the at the same current than the older luxeon III. Total power consumed is 2.38 watts. Again, this is less then the old luxeon III. Looking at that, you'd actually have slightly better runtime because of the lower vf of the rebel. Still, I don't quite understand how the LED is drawing more current. Is it solely because of it's lower resistance? I just don't get it. If the driver feeds the LED 700mA, then isn't that all it gets? I think I'm missing something here.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Let me see. Lets say that the driver is sending 700mA to the LED. At that current, it will have a vf of 3.4v. Right there, that equals 4.86 ohms. So It has less resistance then the at the same current than the older luxeon III. Total power consumed is 2.38 watts. Again, this is less then the old luxeon III. Looking at that, you'd actually have slightly better runtime because of the lower vf of the rebel. Still, I don't quite understand how the LED is drawing more current. Is it solely because of it's lower resistance? I just don't get it. If the driver feeds the LED 700mA, then isn't that all it gets? I think I'm missing something here.

a lower resistance allows current to flow easier, higher resistance impedes current flow. essentially lower Vf LEDs tend to act like lower resistant devices and will allow more current to flow at lower voltages and many simple buck/boost circuits don't tend to regulate current but instead are designed to boost voltage expecting a certain load or resistance on them. If you put a lower resistance they could even put out even higher voltage than normal. By the way... you really don't *force* voltage across a circuit instead a resistance load *allows* current to flow based upon the voltage source. If your resistance load is too high almost no current will flow. If you cut a wire going to an LED the air between the cut wires is nearly infinite resistance so no current flows.

 

[deeuubee]

I have been checking out my Rebel 3D.

I'm doing an informal runtime test using fresh charged Accupower 10,000 mAh NiMH batteries.

Start: 4.18 Volts, 390 ma at the tail cap

10 hour mark: 3.75 volts, 440 ma at tail cap

I took photos at start up, and 10 hours. It's a little dimmer, but not much by my eyes.

I don't know how long it will go, but I'm going to stop at 3 volts.


edit: sorry, I didn't realise how many different places I was talking about this. Runtime and beamshots...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=230583&page=2 post#35

I figure it's dropped on average 0.043 volts per hour in the last 10 hours.

If it stays steady, I'm guessing 17.45 more hours until I reach 3.0 volts. Lets see how close I get with my non-scientific guess.

27.45 hours won't be too bad in my book.

 

[tnforever]

I have been checking out my Rebel 3D.

I'm doing an informal runtime test using fresh charged Accupower 10,000 mAh NiMH batteries.

Start: 4.18 Volts, 390 ma at the tail cap

10 hour mark: 3.75 volts, 440 ma at tail cap

I took photos at start up, and 10 hours. It's a little dimmer, but not much by my eyes.

I don't know how long it will go, but I'm going to stop at 3 volts.

I figure it's dropped on average 0.043 volts per hour in the last 10 hours.

If it stays steady, I'm guessing 17.45 more hours until I reach 3.0 volts. Lets see how close I get with my non-scientific guess.

27.45 hours won't be too bad in my book.

Hey do you have the figures with alkalines?

I think because Mags are widely put off as being second tier lights here, they're often neglected in terms of having full tests done on them. I would sure love to see how they do, since I find them useful (and cheap and reliable) lights for general duty.

 

[Hacken]

While at Lowe's tonight checking for the Remington headlamp, I happened to look down at the Mag's. And what do I see, but Rebel LED's in the 2D and 3D models!! They were stamped with "060", which suggests to me that they were Rebel 60's.

Should focus into a tighter spot now.

that's still too big for a flash light. i'll still take a tk11 or t20c2 over that any day.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Not too big to be at strategic locations around the house. Pretty bright too (at least the 2D I have) and a pretty good spot.

Personally I'll take my Fenix P2D/EagleTac P10C2 combo over anything C or D for carry!