New generation 18350/18650 are coming from Chinese factories.

[CuriousOne]

I'm building my own flashlight from the scratch, and I already finished the driver design and tests. It runs XHP50 from single lithium cell, and draws up to 6A, depending on mode selected. It has analogue brightness adjustment, so no PWM flickering at all The only drawback is, that driver is relatively large - size of half 18350 cell approximately.

 

[StorminMatt]

I can see the appeal of better 18350s from China. But 18650s? I just don't see the appeal of 3000mAH Chinese cells of unknown quality and current capacity when you can get already get GREAT cells from manufacturers like Sanyo/Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and Sony at a very reasonable cost.

 

[CuriousOne]

If you look at in-china market, situation is quite different there. A lot of local brands do sell 18650s to end users, and prices often are much more affordable, than for the big brands.
For example, good quality, china made IMR 18650, 2000mAh (real capacity, measured), 10A max discharge, can be purchased for about $1.5. Is this bad?

 

[StorminMatt]

For example, good quality, china made IMR 18650, 2000mAh (real capacity, measured), 10A max discharge, can be purchased for about $1.5. Is this bad?

This depends. 2000mAH is pretty low capacity these days. If this is TRULY all you need, then it could work for $1.50 a cell - provided the cell is of good quality. The problem, of course, is knowing whether this is indeed the case for unknown cells. There's also the issue of the source of those cells. Must they be ordered from China to get that price? If so, the inconvenience factor of long shipping times and the possibility of having to pay more for faster shipping may need to be factored in. These is also some evidence that shipping for Li-Ion batteries from China could get a whole lot more expensive. In the end, these $1.50 cells will likely be a whole lot less attractive than Japanese and South Korean options that provide greater capacity, greater current draw, known good quality, and fast shipping from US vendors for around $5-$6 a cell. For instance, I recently got a few LG HG2 cells at Illumn for $5 each. They may not be as good as Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 cells. But I'll certainly take them ANY DAY over 2000mAH Chinese cells with a 10A max discharge - especially if the price of those cells is closer to $3.50 a cell when all is said and done. Not to mention that many vendors (including Illumn) sell older, lower capacity offerings by the 'Big Four' that beat 2000mAH Chinese cells on most fronts pretty cheap anyway.

 

[Tachead]

This depends. 2000mAH is pretty low capacity these days. If this is TRULY all you need, then it could work for $1.50 a cell - provided the cell is of good quality. The problem, of course, is knowing whether this is indeed the case for unknown cells. There's also the issue of the source of those cells. Must they be ordered from China to get that price? If so, the inconvenience factor of long shipping times and the possibility of having to pay more for faster shipping may need to be factored in. These is also some evidence that shipping for Li-Ion batteries from China could get a whole lot more expensive. In the end, these $1.50 cells will likely be a whole lot less attractive than Japanese and South Korean options that provide greater capacity, greater current draw, known good quality, and fast shipping from US vendors for around $5-$6 a cell. For instance, I recently got a few LG HG2 cells at Illumn for $5 each. They may not be as good as Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 cells. But I'll certainly take them ANY DAY over 2000mAH Chinese cells with a 10A max discharge - especially if the price of those cells is closer to $3.50 a cell when all is said and done. Not to mention that many vendors (including Illumn) sell older, lower capacity offerings by the 'Big Four' that beat 2000mAH Chinese cells on most fronts pretty cheap anyway.

Just yesterday Battery Junction had 30Q's on for $4.70 a cell. So, if you wait for the sales, those $3.50 mystery China cells are even less appealing. If you lived in China though, like he said, it might be more appealing.

 

[CuriousOne]

My text is in plain English, but I see, people read it as Chinese

Will say once again. On the domestic China market, cheaper is always considered better, so average Chinese user will vote for 2000mah for $1.5, not for 3000mah for 3.5.

This was answer to question, why Chinese go to 3000mah, when there brand name ones available. I suspect, true 3000mah china cell will cost $2. For domestic end user. Why should they refuse?

 

[CuriousOne]

Got them. Actually, I've got two pack of cells - 18350 (1 pcs) , which is rated as 1200mAh at 0.5C, and delivers 1086mAh, when discharged with 0.5A. Also I got 18650 (4 pack), which has some advantages, it is rated at 5C discharge, and capacity is said to be 2600mAh. While specs are not spectacular, they are close to reality - at 0.8A discharge, battery delivers 2634mAh, at 2 amps it delivers 2512mAh, and batteries in this 4 pack track just nicely, mAh difference is less than 1% !. But most interesting is the price - domestic retail price is $1 for cell. As I've been told, the factory bought previous generation manufacturing equipment from Samsung, and now rolls own batteries.

 

[vicv]

The 18350 looks interesting. Can you do a higher discharge test? If it's really only good to .5C I'm not sure what they could be used in but good decent capacity for its size. Wouldn't call it new gen though. If it was it'd be at least 1500mah and be capable of at least 3c. Thanks for testing them though. Always good to have options

 

[CuriousOne]

Yes sure, I just don't had enough time. Will do full scale tests.

 

[SubLGT]

As a good Chinese friend told me, manufacturing lines were upgraded on several Chinese Li-Ion plants, so we should expect "True" 1000mAh 18350 cells and 3000mAh 18650 cells from chinese manufacturers. I guess, Efest and other rewrappers will present us new cells shortly…..

Any 26650 cells with a true 6000mAh or higher capacity coming from Chinese factories in 2017?

 

[CuriousOne]

Yes sure. They are already on the market - check latest HKJ's review of 26650 5500mAh cells Furthermore, chinese factories now produce 22650 @ 3000mAh @20A and even knock off tesla's at 20700 (haven't tested them yet).

 

[SubLGT]

The cell in the iJoy 20700 is from one of the Chinese manufacturers, I assume?

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ults-overrated-but-a-good-30a-battery.798323/

This is an overrated 20700 cell (20mm diameter x 70mm length) that performs well but not quite as well as the Sanyo NCR20700A. Its appearance is similar to the Panasonic/Tesla cell, with its 5-leg top contact, but I cannot confirm that this is indeed the Panasonic cell. There are differences in the top crimp seal and tooling marks.

This iJoy uses a multilayer paper top ring insulator that should not be exposed to juice or otherwise it could swell and soften, possibly increasing the risk of the insulator being damaged when put into or removed from a device or charger.

I am rating this iJoy at 30A and 3000mAh. Its maximum vaping amps (MVA) rating is 40A, limited by temperature.

 

[CuriousOne]

Yes sure

 

[CelticCross74]

I once made the mistake of buying 4 Ultrafire 3000mah 18650's a couple years ago. Did not read the fine print that they were made in China. At the time I had a new I4 charger. I got the cells for my old TK15. Just charging the cells was a potential fire hazard. Believing they were actually 3000mah cells I thought I would get advertised run times and output from the old TK15. A freshly charged cell would last 15-20 minutes in the light before they needed to be charged again no matter what output setting the light was on. More than once while charging these fake lithium ion cells they would put out an overwhelming chemical smell. The I4 really did not like the Ultrafires. More than once these cells would charge to full(all 3 LED bars lit)then suddenly drop to one bar. I educated myself on other 18650 cells then got a pair of Fenix label 18650's they were rated at only 2700mah but ran the TK15 to its advertised specs.

I really did not appreciate being duped by the false advertising for the Ultrafires and one day decided to take an Xacto knife and dissect one of them. End results-these Ultrafires had no actual protection circuits despite being advertised as protected. The button top positive end was just a piece of metal shaped like a protection circuit. Proceeding farther I cut open the cell itself which was surprisingly easy. It was as if the metal under the wrapping was made of tin. Inside the cell was a bizarre off white compound of unknown substance then beneath that was the lithium ion(supposedly)wrap. There was not much wrap inside the cell at all. The strangest thing I found was a thin metal cylinder at the center that went from the positive end to the negative end. I have no clue what metal it was made of or why it was even there. At the time the cells were on the expensive side. Lesson learned I tossed the Ultrafires and moved on to real lithium ion cells from known manufacturers. I always double check to make sure the core of my 18650's are Japanese made now. It really gets to me that these exact same red wrapped Ultrafires are still being sold. Looking back I am lucky they did not burst into flames and that the overwhelming chemical smell they put off while charging did not kill me.

Yes I know that the re wrapped brands get their wrapping and protection circuits put on in China but so far that has not been an issue.

 

[Ozythemandias]

Bumping this thread, it looks like the new Aspires confirmed your prediction

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Bumping this thread, it looks like the new Aspires confirmed your prediction

My three Aspire 18350s from Mountain Electronics should be here today, or tomorrow.

I'll run them through the Opus 3400 v. 2.2 and see what's what.

I have a XP-L HI triple Convoy S2+ with LD-2 driver board that direct drives on high at 6A, so hopefully they'll perform better than my AWT 10A 18350s.

Chris

 

[CuriousOne]

That is not prediction, that is just knowledge from reputable source.