One Uncommon Need, and One Common Use Need

LED User

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Hi guys,
I need a couple flashlights to be powered by18650, or CR batteries.
One will be used in the yard, at the boat ramp, on the lake, etc.
2-3 output levels roughly: 15, 100, 1000
Tail-switch/ 2nd mode switch, or single tail-switch

The second one is for church security team work, home defense otherwise.
I'm not sure how much brightness is needed to temporarily illuminate and block the vision of an attacker in daylight hours without causing any permanent visual damage, but this is what I need.
Is this possible?

- Two lumen outputs will do, 300 +/-, and max. of ? for daylight indoors
- Tail-switch
- instant max. lumen first click of switch

This is primarily for church security team work; and primarily indoors.

I believe I recall a study done for policework that determined in dark settings 350 lumen +/- is sufficient, but never found anything at that time for well-lit indoor use.

Thanks guys.
 
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LED User

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Thanks letschat, I'll check them out. Much appreciated.
I expect to need two lights since the indoor, well lit church security scenario calls for a far greater amount of light intensity. (candle power?)

In continuing to search, I found these Nitecore which are along the lines of what I may need? Uncertain yet about daylight and well lit indoor brightness needs...
- https://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/p20ix
- https://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/mh12pro
or - https://flashlight.nitecore.com/Product/e4k
 
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aznsx

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Let me give you some things to look at / consider. Here are 3 lights I'd be looking at to meet your requirements. Either 1, or 2 of them together should meet both of your defined sets of requirements. They are hi quality Streamlights in their ProTac line. In each case, from the main product page linked here, goto the 'Documentation +' area of the page and access the associated docs for each. The 'Data Sheet' is a good high level glossy overview with basic feature summary, etc. The 'Fact Sheet' is the comprehensive details / specs all on one page (no photos, only an output / time graph). I personally have the 2L-X, and am basically familiar with all 3 enough to probably answer basic questions you might have. Prepare to open a bunch of tabs in your browser!

Each is powered by 1x18650, uses a single tailswitch for both momentary-on and maintained(/constant)-on operation, and also controls multiple different output levels (if configured for such). Each can be configured to function either 'high only', or a selection of more than 1 output level. Pay particular attention to the Ten-Tap discription for each, which defines the specific options available for each with respect to either single, or more than 1 output level, and the order of the latter, etc., which varies depending on the model.



 

LED User

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Great, thanks.
Much appreciated aznsx.

A couple hours later...
The PROTAC HL-X looks especially likely with its candela rating of 27,100.
The Nitecore MH12 Pro (linked above) has a candela rating of 63,500
But at this point I've no idea how much candela is necessary for the church security work.
The security work is during times when the church is open for its various activities. I'm hoping there is a practical application for use of disorienting light. It could meet a need, and be sufficient to end threats of safety in certain situations without further escalation.
 
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knucklegary

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Sorry to hear you have to use the words "church" and "security" in the same sentence.
It's a shame this is not the same world I grew up in..

I seriously doubt you'll fend off a threat from thugs or thieves with a flashlight during daylight hours.

Hire professional security team would be my recommendation
 
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LED User

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Your right of course Gary. Its a terrible indictment of our society as a whole that security is needed in houses of worship, and becoming more needed as time goes on.
We are a mid-sized church with basic traditional beliefs, so no particular draw there for violence.
But we recognize when looking at motives for someone intending violence in a church, child abduction (their own), or a murder/suicide intent are the most likely during any church activity.

We have a very good security plan developed that comprises a locked down children's wing, off duty city police and deputies in their church attire, augmented by two hired uniformed deputies.
In addition we have volunteer church members who have their CCW licenses and perhaps more training. They walk halls and stay observant; and are prepared to aid the first line security team on duty if needed. Low key and unnoticeable except for the two uniforms so as to be the least interrupting as possible.

Its within this backdrop that I'm wondering about the potential aid of blocking someone's vision with a wall of light for a few moments.
 
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IMA SOL MAN

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The HEART of the USA.
Your right of course Gary. Its a terrible indictment of our society as a whole that security is needed in houses of worship, and becoming more needed as time goes on.
We are a mid-sized church with basic traditional beliefs, so no particular draw there. But we recognize when looking at motives for someone intending violence in a church, child abduction (their own), or a murder/suicide intent are the most likely during any church activity.

We have a very good security plan developed that comprises a locked down children's wing, off duty city police and deputies in their church attire, augmented by two hired uniformed deputies.
In addition we have volunteer church members who have their CCW licenses and perhaps more training. They walk halls and stay observant; and are prepared to aid the first line security team on duty if needed. Low key and unnoticeable except for the two uniforms so as to be the least interrupting as possible.

Its within this backdrop that I'm wondering about the potential aid of blocking someone's vision with a wall of light for a few moments.
WOW! I must say, that is a LOT of prep! If you don't mind saying, where do you live?! I'm thinking you must live in a high-risk area to justify that much prep, but then again, violence happens everywhere, unfortunately.
 

LED User

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You know, actually we aren't located in a high crime area. Between Akron and Canton, Ohio.
But as you say, violence happens everywhere.

We've never had a major violent incident, but we have caught Satanists in a children's classroom drawing their symbols in our early days.
These groups are much more common in Ohio, and most states actually, than the general public knows btw.
And, the world isn't becoming a safer place.
We are a congregation of roughly 600 with two services each Sunday.
 

LED User

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aznsx, I had a ProTac 2L-X until I misplaced it somewhere.
I'm with you, I liked it alot and yes, it would work well for the first flashlight need I listed. Its a replacement for it that I'm looking with my first request.

letschat, are you located in my area?
I've never had any dealings with them personally.
 
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letschat7

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About Church security. I knew someone that did this in the 90s and never thought I would understand the need.

My father was a pastor and in 2013 he is having a meeting with someone we both know and he complains that this woman is disruptive in services. I overhear and suggest they ban her. He is like no we don't do that we just tell her to keep quiet and she repeats such behaviours every service she attends. I think ah what an environment for trolling but of course I couldn't do so because of the professional courtosies. I have to engage in a large amount of political correctness and attend regardless of what I believe or don't believe. I also have to attend a service or more every week or be thrown out.

Well some months later I get invited to attend a service but it isn't on the usual day but I'm like ok since some of my young friends are also going. Only it wasn't to where I expected but a different demonination. It is a VBS. I think ah perfect I'll meet some girls. Well I get asked if I can be in this group of older youths because their numbers are low. I agree because they weren't giving me a choice.

I see another there I know and we scheme up to disrupt this event by a planned arguement. I also gave some Hitler salutes when they were waving their arms but that did little more than get me invited to the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan by buisness card the next day. They were planning a fund raiser for some women's shelter, which I oppose on the grounds that it is a front for Feminism, so i talked people into bringing onlky one cent each(later this would be my downfall.)

I felt fairly safe in these actions because this denomination is independent. Sometime in the past when I was involved in some socialist projects with various denominations I tried to file some complaints about a different church with someone of that demonination over something like selling salvation and was told there is no oversight no one can do anything. So it seems they are totally on their own or so I think. Then there is little fear that my father will hear about this and even if it does I didn't expect much would be done about it. I could just say they are exaggeragting things and get out of trouble shortly later.

Next day I come armed with pennies and some printed out memes. I ruin the fundraiser and get kicked out like within the hour. I had to sit with my friend's grandma until my ride came hours later and was told don't come back.

My friend is all upset and confused that I was even let in to begin with. But we drink and I tell him how I was trolling them and he tells me his grandmother didn't appreciate it or his aunt and his friends just cant come there to cause problems.

Now fast forward a bit to 2014 and 2015. I talk the old youth group into coming back together. This was quite an accomplishment I must say. I say this because they are athiestic, antitheist, kaffirs of every type. But I make deals to attend pubs and maybe we drink expensive alcohol at church, and watch IS videos of christians being executed. It is really great deal and they are very much interested.

At some point this Dylan guy shoots up a church but why should I care? I didn't know they were black and I don't really care so much for christians usually. My friend read about it but I don't really care at all.

Then there was this video. I had seen these terroist execution videos before but didn't really care at first. Then they started being in English and better yet an American gets killed which is fun for everyone. But they start getting better. They make a film with an American in it and he takes part in the killing of chirstians. Like seriously it was the best thing I had ever watched. I tell my friends and they all agree to attend a service and we can watch it together.

Some old man gets up and says he is thankful the youth group is back together, not knowing why they are all there. We watch the video and one complains that this whole situation is wrong and unethical, etc, etc. The rest like the video though.

Sometime goes by and I have a falling out with my friend and some woman in the community calls me a t'rist on facebook. My coworkers tell me because I don't use it. I decide to go back to disrupting that service.

I pick a time when police shouldn't be around and wear a mask. I do so because I need to be able to deny it was me and still be a productive member of society the following day.

I enter in and get surrounded but they let me go. I leave on foot and they call the police in the following hours I without even trying manage to evade them twice. I didn't know they were after me until I read some reports months later.

I plan to do it all again the next week but someone from the US intel community infomrs me that DOJ is after me. I look up a list of agencies and none seemed good :(

I cancel my plans but it isn't enough. On the next monday some agents show up at my house. At first I think it is city police detectives but they flash credentials and it is the FBI. That was probably the scariest moment of my life. They didn't like a long list of activities they thought I was involved in. It is nearly a hate crime what I was doing and they were real interested in me not joining IS, not funding IS, and not supporting IS.

Local police was at the service outside with a gun with orders to shoot if I showed up. Because of that Dylan a*hole they thought I was an active shooter.

I get followed around for 60 days the police harass my mother my coworkers, and my neighbours. Once I calm down I step up my efforts at harassing the neighbourhood and some Karens.

Eventually I get arrested but a good lawyer is all it takes to be back out committing further crimes. I get banned from some churches one permenently.

Some things happen some crimes happen I go to prison. Some things mainly the COVID 19. American media being the worst we all thought it was like Marburg or Ebola and everyone was going to die. Americans being nothing but scum packed large groups of people together to make it spread easier. I was like the second to get sick with it. Only I worked through the flu on many occassions even walking 6.2 miles to work each way made me a bit more durable.

Well when these things happen people start caring about religion. I was the only one with a Bible and I guess they seen me doing the readings. I try explaining to this Hispanic gang that they should find another person because of somethings I did but they know from Pacer and it doesn't matter they need someone. So I lead the service in Eng and Esp. I read from the Holy Bible in English then they read from Santa Biblia. I say a prayer they say a prayer.

People get worse no one leaves a bed. I assume its over. I collect peoples details for their computer accounts and summon medical aid but they have no medicine. I write to peoples families. This is the end I think. A muslim needs water and I get it he tells me he used to be a christian too but they are too greedy so he converted. He just wanted to hear Psalms. I read him a verse every day. People get better life moves on.

Then I get moved to this place in oklahoma, well a different place there. They don't like t'rists at all there and they treat me bad from day one. But I got to meet some real ones at first a guy that joins IS but he doesn't seem so religious. Then someone I read about it the news one that had murdered a US soldier. He was being moved being the victim of a racially motivated attack. Well I tell one joke about Hasan being a real American hero and he snaps. I'm locked in a very small cell with him. I have nowhere to go and I can't really fight. I'm unarmed and helpless. I think its gotta be over at this point. He calms don't and tells me Hasan is such a terible person don't make jokes.

Later on under a door I talk to a man making prayer calls. He is IS. I talk about some videos, jihadi nasheeds, and other stuff and we hit it off. It was at this point I got designated as an international terrorist. He got sent elsewhere and tried to murder a federal employee and I went off to work unofficially in the religious programme policing common faire on the commissary and made a religious programme that was designed to prevent cheating. I was also in the Catholic Choir by invite. The irony.

But yes there is a need for security in churches or houses of worship be it Christian, Jewish, or Islamic. They get targeted by shooters, trolls, and hate criminals. I found all this out the hard way with FBI JTTF and local LEAs.

Where I live maybe it isn't so serious but a state away from me, where Streamlight is located, there was that Tree of Life shooting. Nowadays it isn't like Mayberry anymore.

I do think that less security might be needed if your house of worship engages in activities designed to help the community. If the members live pious lives. Oh and if the women aged 30-60 didn't use telephones and facebooks to gossip and create endless rules and double standards that make everyones lives a living hell. I don't care if so and so is cheating on their spouce, I don't care that a deacon is drinking a shot of whiskey before bedtime you probably drove him to it, I don't care if you think the youth group is having an orgy, I don't care that you dislike a tv show, song, card game, D&D, or video game. I don't care if you are thinking of suicide or worse you want to report some neighbour that talks about it. I don't care that some demonination that doesn't bother people and sticks to theirself bothers you. I don't want to hear about why your marriage is failing. Oh and I definately don't want to hear that you think I'm a t'rist.

I had to keep quiet on these topics for decades. Maybe instead of getting a light for security go help an elderly person or do volunteer work. Maybe do some of the things that Jesus fellow did and the rest will take care of itself. Trouble doesn't happen for no reason usually.

In the county beside mine 10 different churches work hand in hand to help the community with love in their hearts and a desire to serve G-d. I didn't bother those people at all.
 

LED User

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letschat, it sounds like you had a very unfortunate childhood.
Churches are populated by broken, hurting people who are trying with God's help to find forgiveness, healing, and a better life while they work at developing their understanding of God, and that He desires a life with internal peace and joy for each of us, including you.
Do you think the Devil is going to leave these people alone, of course not.
So even within this situation some people get tricked into pursuing things that will give them temporary rewards.

By your standards you wouldn't personally attack our church; ours is one of the many that is honestly working to do good within the congregation, and for the local community ,,,and beyond.

All church's leadership will be in the devil's cross hairs in many ways.

It sounds like you've allowed yourself to be driven by anger, etc. and made many choices that were hurtful to others and in the process, to yourself.
I hope you can find your way free of the hurt, pain and turmoil in your soul. Its never too late.
Study the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. Look for the deeper levels of understanding.
You may have been mislead in your early years.

By the way, your atheist friends are wrong. God does exist. It no longer needs to be a matter of faith only.
The sciences have proven the need for a Creator for reality.
I've studied this, and kept track of the developments for fifty years now.
 
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