OSRAM Street Legal LED Headlight Bulbs.

[theory816]

Not much price difference these days between low and high CRI. In fact, just quickly browsing prices at Mouser there's no difference between CRI 70 and CRI 90 LEDs in the same family. The CRI 90 ones put out about 20% less light though, so for any given output the LEDs will cost about 20% more. However, at this point the emitters themselves comprise only a small fraction of the total cost of LED lighting. The cost difference then between lower and higher CRI is often close to negligible. In any case, high CRI LEDs aren't "much more rare and expensive".

100 CRI isn't needed for any outdoor lighting applications. In fact, it really isn't needed for anything but demanding color matching use. Most people can't even tell the difference between CRI 90 and CRI 100. Anyway, for outdoor lighting CRI 80 is more than good enough. Or even go with CRI 90 if you're that concerned. It won't increase the cost by much, if at all.

I agree CRI difference is negligible and most can't tell the difference. But CRI is just one pro/con.

 

[shovelbill]

It is far more than that, it is about layout of under hood components, you can not install a part that a user can not move to assess a bulb for replacement with halogen bulbs, but with leds that do not need an owner to get to the bulb, you can. right now components are so cramped in most cars that to change a bulb you may need to remove an air intake, or an air filter box, which is not an issue, usually few clips, or screws, with non serviceable lights, you can have components like abs module, inverters, ECU.. ect with all plumbing, wiring, and hydraulics.

This one is fairly easy compared to some vehicles as I understand it...

 

[theory816]

This one is fairly easy compared to some vehicles as I understand it...

This is a poor argument that you're making.

The internal components are going to be cramped whether you choose LEDs or halogens.

Lets take a corolla for example. One with halogens and one with LEDs. Do you think its going to make a difference at all in the internal components? If it does, what exactly is the game changing factor with the LED corolla that you couldn't with the halogen corolla? NOTHING.

 

[shovelbill]

This is a poor argument that you're making.

The internal components are going to be cramped whether you choose LEDs or halogens.

Lets take a corolla for example. One with halogens and one with LEDs. Do you think its going to make a difference at all in the internal components? If it does, what exactly is the game changing factor with the LED corolla that you couldn't with the halogen corolla? NOTHING.

This is a poor argument that you're making.

The internal components are going to be cramped whether you choose LEDs or halogens.

Lets take a corolla for example. One with halogens and one with LEDs. Do you think its going to make a difference at all in the internal components? If it does, what exactly is the game changing factor with the LED corolla that you couldn't with the halogen corolla? NOTHING.

My intent was not to make an argument for either side of this discussion. The video was merely a prop, if you will, to support your post. I used this particular example because a friend asked me to help them change a bulb on their Subaru, and I had to ponder the task longer than I would have thought necessary. She found this video after I had taken off the passenger side tire, as that seemed an extreme exercise to swap out a bulb.

 

[theory816]

My intent was not to make an argument for either side of this discussion. The video was merely a prop, if you will, to support your post. I used this particular example because a friend asked me to help them change a bulb on their Subaru, and I had to ponder the task longer than I would have thought necessary. She found this video after I had taken off the passenger side tire, as that seemed an extreme exercise to swap out a bulb.

I agree with you that changing the bulb on some makes are difficult because of the small spacing. It is pretty annoying to have to remove everything just to get access. But that's just the way it is with cars. Who knows. LED headlights might just make it easier to access the bulbs. since you can get rid of the wires and flatten out the spacing a bit more.

 

[alpg88]

With led headlights, tail lights you do NOT need to access the bulb, there are no bulbs to replace. that is the idea. it is not about making it flatter, it is about not having to make it assessable.
In that subaru the access is behind the fender, with led headlight, that space could be used for windshield washer fluid tank for example, or evap canister, it is already done that way in many cars.

 

[theory816]

With led headlights, tail lights you do NOT need to access the bulb, there are no bulbs to replace. that is the idea. it is not about making it flatter, it is about not having to make it assessable.
In that subaru the access is behind the fender, with led headlight, that space could be used for windshield washer fluid tank for example, or evap canister, it is already done that way in many cars.

But with the current halogen bulbs, its not like you are replacing the bulbs every year. Its once every 5-10 years. There's also no way data on how reliable LED headlights are either. So if it does break, it defeats the purpose altogether.

 

[alpg88]

But with the current halogen bulbs, its not like you are replacing the bulbs every year. Its once every 5-10 years.

IT is irrelevant, regardless how often you need to replace it, you have to have an access to do it.

 

[theory816]

IT is irrelevant, regardless how often you need to replace it, you have to have an access to do it.

You do have access. How do people change their bulbs then? Ohhhh I gotta move a few wires a loosen a few screws once every 5-10 years. Screw it lets spend more money and rework the whole thing! LMAO.

 

[shovelbill]

But with the current halogen bulbs, its not like you are replacing the bulbs every year. Its once every 5-10 years. There's also no way data on how reliable LED headlights are either. So if it does break, it defeats the purpose altogether.

One other point with halogen bulbs. I changed both, as I always do. I'm an advocate for high-performance halogen, and they surely do not have the same life span as the dismal 'long life' bulb, as I'm sure you know. That life span is lessened when a relay harness is used to power them.

Was it a big deal? Well, no, not particularly, but I'm sure a stealership or local wrench would have made a tidy profit on labor for something that most folks used to be able to do themselves and weren't prepared to pay for. Hell, I got a hamburger out of the deal.

 

[theory816]

One other point with halogen bulbs. I changed both, as I always do. I'm an advocate for high-performance halogen, and they surely do not have the same life span as the dismal 'long life' bulb, as I'm sure you know. That life span is lessened when a relay harness is used to power them.

Was it a big deal? Well, no, not particularly, but I'm sure a stealership or local wrench would have made a tidy profit on labor for something that most folks used to be able to do themselves and weren't prepared to pay for. Hell, I got a hamburger out of the deal.

I have another vehicle that uses halogen bulb in projectors and have never needed to replace the main bulb yet and its a 2014 car. I have replaced one or two bulbs for the taillight and another for side marker lights. Was it difficult to change out? Was it difficult to change out? Yes and no. Was it doable? Yes. But what component thats attached to a car doesn't require some effort to remove?

 

[alpg88]

You do have access. How do people change their bulbs then?

people do not change led headlight bulbs on factory led units, cuz there are no bulbs to change.

 

[jaycee88]

I have another vehicle that uses halogen bulb in projectors and have never needed to replace the main bulb yet and its a 2014 car.

Depends on what your definition of 'needed' is I guess.
My sister owned a 2008 Civic and it was still on its original headlight bulbs when it was totalled in 2021, and the car did see regular use at night. I remember being a passenger during the last days of the car, looking at the brown beam pattern on the road, and asking her "Have you thought of changing the headlight bulbs?".
Her reply: "Why? They still work"
I mansplained to her that as bulbs age, their output diminishes which can cause issues with, you know, seeing things at night.
Her response: "It doesn't matter, there are street lights everywhere"
Me: 🤦‍♂️

Point is, OEM bulbs can lose a significant amount of light before they eventually burn out, whereas for example premium aftermarkets tend to burn out first.
If you drive a lot at night, it's probable that your headlights have lost a significant amount of output and you're not able to see as well as you did when your car was new. And you probably haven't noticed because the loss of output is gradual.

P.S. After the Civic was totalled (for reasons unrelated to headlights), she bought a '20 base model Civic with halogens. One of her first remarks when we did the test drive (at night) was "Wow the headlights are really bright!".
Me: "No, that's the street lights you're seeing"
She didn't get the joke....

P.P.S. Turns out, her new Civic has probably what are the most easily accessible headlight bulbs known to man. They're literally right there in your face when the hood is lifted. Not that she would ever care.

 

[theory816]

people do not change led headlight bulbs on factory led units, cuz there are no bulbs to change.

Yeah but they'll be changing the entire unit when its at half life or goes out, which it does. Ever seen Dodge's with the track taillights go out in some spots? Yup.

 

[theory816]

Depends on what your definition of 'needed' is I guess.
My sister owned a 2008 Civic and it was still on its original headlight bulbs when it was totalled in 2021, and the car did see regular use at night. I remember being a passenger during the last days of the car, looking at the brown beam pattern on the road, and asking her "Have you thought of changing the headlight bulbs?".
Her reply: "Why? They still work"
I mansplained to her that as bulbs age, their output diminishes which can cause issues with, you know, seeing things at night.
Her response: "It doesn't matter, there are street lights everywhere"
Me: 🤦‍♂️

Point is, OEM bulbs can lose a significant amount of light before they eventually burn out, whereas for example premium aftermarkets tend to burn out first.
If you drive a lot at night, it's probable that your headlights have lost a significant amount of output and you're not able to see as well as you did when your car was new. And you probably haven't noticed because the loss of output is gradual.

P.S. After the Civic was totalled (for reasons unrelated to headlights), she bought a '20 base model Civic with halogens. One of her first remarks when we did the test drive (at night) was "Wow the headlights are really bright!".
Me: "No, that's the street lights you're seeing"
She didn't get the joke....

P.P.S. Turns out, her new Civic has probably what are the most easily accessible headlight bulbs known to man. They're literally right there in your face when the hood is lifted. Not that she would ever care.

Actually the bulbs don't lose that much Lumen output over time. They'll lose a little bit and go out entirely. They don't dim.

The lost of Lumens comes from the front cover of the headlights. Interestingly enough, I tested this the other day. I removed the entire front cover off of my headlights. I'm guesstimating that the yellow and oxidized covers account for 50-60% lost of lux. It gets bad enough to where the cutoff line is blurred. I have a lux meter to test it all out but I'm too lazy to do it but I'm sure im close just eyeing it.

The Halogen projector headlight unit is very cost effective, high performing, and easily replacable. That's why moving towards LED's isn't exactly ideal. Much of the craze around LEDs is that it seems more sophisticated, which is it, but then it becomes over qualified for the job.

 

[alpg88]

Yeah but they'll be changing the entire unit when its at half life or goes out, which it does. Ever seen Dodge's with the track taillights go out in some spots? Yup.

???? not sure what your point is. there is a difference between mechanical failure of non serviceable parts, and regular service parts that consumer have to have an access to replace.

 

[Mosports]

This is a poor argument that you're making.

The internal components are going to be cramped whether you choose LEDs or halogens.

Lets take a corolla for example. One with halogens and one with LEDs. Do you think its going to make a difference at all in the internal components? If it does, what exactly is the game changing factor with the LED corolla that you couldn't with the halogen corolla? NOTHING.

My wife had a 2001 Audi TT. Since I sell lighting, I looked for the bulb list in the owners manual and there was none. All there was, was a statement saying that it was too difficult for the average owner to replace bulbs and it should be left to a certified Audi mechanic. This is a good reason to use LED bulbs, you only have to replace them once.

 

[John_Galt]

Thats a horrible argument for a bulb

 

[DRW]

Thats a horrible argument for a bulb

Long life is a selling point for practically all LEDs. By bulb do you mean something with a filament?

 

[John_Galt]

I was using "bulb" in the general sense.

Long life is one desirable aspect of LEDs. However the performance of the "better ones" available on the market is barely on par with a long life halogen.