Sealed-beam Conversions headlights

ronclark

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Sep 12, 2011
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Thanks for the info, I sent a email to Daniel Stern Lighting and see what he recommends.
The city light function that Cibie has looks cool, any down side to having that?
I guess if i need more light after that i'll look into some driving lights to help out in the rain and snow.
 

-Virgil-

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The "city light" is a parking light function built into the headlamp, provided by a separate low-wattage bulb socketed into the reflector a distance away from the main bulb. I can't think of a downside to having it; on the other hand, since your vehicle already has parking lamps of one sort or another, there's no pressing need to add it. I do like that this "city light" style of parking lamp keeps the headlamp lit up even if the H4 bulb burns out; seems to me that presents a particularly accurate impression of your vehicle's width and position on the road to an oncoming viewer.

"Driving lights" are supplemental high beams, not legal or safe for use with low beams or in bad weather.
 

ronclark

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The "city light" is a parking light function built into the headlamp, provided by a separate low-wattage bulb socketed into the reflector a distance away from the main bulb. I can't think of a downside to having it; on the other hand, since your vehicle already has parking lamps of one sort or another, there's no pressing need to add it. I do like that this "city light" style of parking lamp keeps the headlamp lit up even if the H4 bulb burns out; seems to me that presents a particularly accurate impression of your vehicle's width and position on the road to an oncoming viewer.

"Driving lights" are supplemental high beams, not legal or safe for use with low beams or in bad weather.

Oh I did now know that since I read you could have up to 4 filments on I assumed driving lights were ok.
 

Hamilton Felix

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I have seen many (I'm even confident enough to say "most") of the aftermarket "replica" projectors, and I have yet to see one that has been tested and certified or type-approved as compliant with any prevailing technical standard or regulation. Most of them do not meet the photometric, physical, and/or durabilty requirements. Homemade headlamps are already technically -- and also usually practically -- illegal even if they incorporate original-equipment projectors out of another vehicle's headlamps...

Uhh, let me be sure I understand: If, for example, I take a set of legal and compliant projector headlights out of a late model Accord, then do the necessary body work to install them in one of my old trucks, they still won't be legal?

I certainly agree that good quality vs bad quality makes a lot more difference than dual filament vs single filament. Funny, I still remember reading Tom McCahill's Mechanix Illustrated test of the 409 powered 1962 Impala Sport Coupe. Although, with a few notable exceptions, 5.75" quad headlights had taken over the American automotive scene in 1958, Tom griped "...I still say that two good headlights are better than four lousy ones." I rather suspect he was discovering that with virtually the same total reflector area spread over four headlamps instead of two, the similar wattage 5.75" low beams did not perform terribly well.

Somewhere I have a set of Bosch headlamps from a Rabbit that received an aftermarket European grill with driving lights back in the day. I got a "deal" on them, not realizing they are about 7.125" rather than 7" lamps. They have city lights. That always seemed like a nice feature. Do some well lit European cities actually let cars drive at night with city lights alone?

Over quite a few years, none of my American purchased Cibie lights had city lights. Just that one set of European Bosch Rabbit headlamps.

This is all history, but in general I've been very happy with Cibie conversions of 5.75" and 7" American sealed beam headlamps.
 
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-Virgil-

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If you install complete compliant headlamp assemblies other than the original kind (modular self-contained compliant optics such as the Hella units, or headlamp assemblies from a different kind of vehicle, etc.), and the vehicle winds up with all required lighting and reflective functions, and they're installed such that they can be aimed correctly, you're legal. If you open up your headlamps and install optics and components (drill, cut, glue, screw, etc.) that weren't originally there, then (attempt to) reseal the headlamp, you're not. Even if the optics you install produce compliant beam patterns, by opening up your headlamp you've undone all the work to make the assembly vibrationproof, resistant to water and dirt entry, etc. And internal bezels and lenses often exert influence over the total light distribution via internal reflections, so if anything inside the headlamp changes, so does that, and you can easily get a noncompliance. Of course if you send your homemade headlamps for compliance testing and they pass, then you're legal.

I rather suspect he was discovering that with virtually the same total reflector area spread over four headlamps instead of two, the similar wattage 5.75" low beams did not perform terribly well.

But the wattage wasn't similar. The low beam of the original tungsten 5.75" high/low sealed beam headlamp #4002 was 50w, and the low beam filament was on the focal point of the reflector. Compare that to the 40w low beam filament, located above and to the left of the focal point, in the 7" high/low sealed beam headlamp #6012 -- though GE "Suburban" 7-inch sealed beams had the low beam filament on the focal point. When the 6012 was replaced by the 6014, low beam wattage went to 50 (and around the same time, #4002 was replaced by the #4000, with low beam wattage of 60).

Do some well lit European cities actually let cars drive at night with city lights alone?

"City lights" is a colloquial term. The official English term is "position lamps" (or "side lights" in England, because English cars long ago had one lamp on each side of the vehicle with a small bulb sandwiched by a colorless lens facing front and a red lens facing rear).
This was a very old practice in places like London, Paris, Moscow, Mexico City, and probably many others: headlamps were used only out in the open. In built-up areas, the "city lights" were used. It worked OK as long as streets were well lit, but the problem is obvious: the driver making their way through town will encounter lit and unlit streets, and will probably be too lazy to mess with the light switch back and forth and back and forth, so will probably just leave the "city lights" on. Woe unto any pedestrians! And I have to imagine intersections could be particularly dangerous because cars outside North America don't have side marker lights or retroreflectors. The Brits tried out a solution where if the driver switched on the "city lights" and the parking brake was released the low beams came on at half intensity -- sort of a forerunner of how some daytime running light modules are configured. They had good success with it, but the European Commission frowned on members trying to exert unique lighting requirements. Do a Google search on "town beam" "dim-dip" and you'll come up with more info.
 

ronclark

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I talk to Daniel Stern, its sounds like ill be going the Cibie option. Man did the guy give a lot of other ways to upgrade my lights too.
 

Kuryakin

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I've been quite happy with the Cibie E code conversions on any car I've had which originally came with sealed beams. Added relays and they got a lot better.
 
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