moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
ref the one-time EMP event, soooooo you have heard the vague rumors about the EMP hand grenade? the link above refers to that at the end. it's supposedly about a German potato masher size.... :tinfoil:
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Secret Aircraft
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ref the one-time EMP event, soooooo you have heard the vague rumors about the EMP hand grenade? the link above refers to that at the end. it's supposedly about a German potato masher size.... :tinfoil:
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Correct. good catch. The terminology is actually HPM = high power microwaves and comes in pulses. Quite a few press blurbs quoted this weapon as an EMP-based weapon. However it still appears to be a challenge for sufficient microwave power output:
http://defense-update.com/20110922_boeing-tests-champ-hpm-missil.html
The original technology comes from a company Raytheon purchased just last year: Ktech has microwave generators which output an EMP-like microwave field. IOW, a big magnetron?
This is not the same as a magnetic flux-compression generator (MFCG) bomb which does produce Megajoules of energy in microseconds. That is a directed EMP pulse.
There is also the ASEA or active electronically scanned array which is a radar that can focus all of it's energy to a beamed point. The result is the same - fried electronics. The smaller ones can be fitted to fighters. the larger versions mount on the EA-18G Growler (FA-18 modified)
In one location to remain unnamed, we had some homeless people sneak up to the operating radar domes and go to sleep under the dome. why? because the radar kept them warm......
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AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
In one location to remain unnamed, we had some homeless people sneak up to the operating radar domes and go to sleep under the dome. why? because the radar kept them warm......
Google: Naked man tower brings up lots of examples. No small number of people die after climbing them, feeling "too warm," and stripping. On top of the tower, the RF is quite high. Even if your body only intercepts 1% of it, it's still a megawatt antennae. They die of overheat, and require tricky "vertical extractions" where climbers go up and lower the body.
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
fyi: this is going off the direct topic of "Secret Aircraft", but is perhaps pertinent to understand why that CHAMP missile was able to kill the computers or displays and cameras at some distance.
The voltages induced in electronics or wires will vary by the type of pulse. Identifying a volts per meter of induced voltage is an insufficient root cause for electronics failures. The rise time and duration of the induced disruption is very significant. IOW, the pulse time-profile is what usually kills electronics.
In a nuc-based EMP, there are E1, E2, and E2 field "pulses". Lightning has E1 and E2 components. Lightning effects research resembles nuclear EMP research. A rad-hard device has additional circuitry to mitigate ionizing radiation on/in the chip. At the end of the production line in some labs, the radiation level used to test a rad-hard device would kill a human in less than a minute.
E1 is similar to "prompt" radiation and has a risetime of nanoseconds and decays in milliseconds. E1 couples well to short cable runs, such as 1-10 m. Using various EMI protectors/shielding/filtering is useful, but not complete. Surge protectors are usually inadequate because of the fast rise-time of the pulse. E1 will kill computers, cell phones, etc. a low yield nuc would generate an E1 from 5kV-10 kV / m. The sharp leading edge of the pulse is what latches up IC gates, especially in the range of 10^-9 or 10^-8 seconds. E1 does not couple very well to long lines.
Note: Even static electricity can blow the diodes across most IC gates causing a latchup of the gate. Leaving the device sit for a few days is sufficient to allows the charge to dissipate - which is why HP received so many HP-41 CMOS-based calculators back under warranty when in Corvallis they all functioned OK.
E2 couples to longer conductors such as vertical antenna towers and aircraft with trailing wires (see sub-chaser A/C such as the Orion). E2 is longer and can last up to a second. The usual lightning protection provides a measure of protection.
E3 is a problem because it can penetrate the ground with a frequency of less than 1Hz. The pulse rise can be 20 sec to a peak (as reported) and then decay over a minute or longer. An E3 pulse is dangerous for electric power systems even with buried cables because the very low frequency makes shielding extremely difficult. The end result would be transformer saturation and subsequent winding failure (all as observed), possibly delayed. Auroral EMP causes similar effects although primarily because of volts / meter EMF generation over many kilometersl.
Note: power companies have had major problems with auroral flux. ie: in Minnesota, an NSP power dispatcher told me that some days he cannot draw any power from Canada because of the voltage buildup on the lines. Those lines run N-S and the Earth rotates E-W, thus the classic voltage generation of a wire cutting flux. Instead he has to purchase the more expensive TVA power since those lines run E-W and are not affected by auroral flux.
Back on topic: The probable key to the missile test was both the rise-time and intensity of the microwave pulse which was sufficient to kill the electronics. ie: Even relatively small low-power devices at the EMP test range could kill a car ignition or flying model electronics w/in range of the pulse. No spectacular pyrotechnics were necessary.
The voltages induced in electronics or wires will vary by the type of pulse. Identifying a volts per meter of induced voltage is an insufficient root cause for electronics failures. The rise time and duration of the induced disruption is very significant. IOW, the pulse time-profile is what usually kills electronics.
In a nuc-based EMP, there are E1, E2, and E2 field "pulses". Lightning has E1 and E2 components. Lightning effects research resembles nuclear EMP research. A rad-hard device has additional circuitry to mitigate ionizing radiation on/in the chip. At the end of the production line in some labs, the radiation level used to test a rad-hard device would kill a human in less than a minute.
E1 is similar to "prompt" radiation and has a risetime of nanoseconds and decays in milliseconds. E1 couples well to short cable runs, such as 1-10 m. Using various EMI protectors/shielding/filtering is useful, but not complete. Surge protectors are usually inadequate because of the fast rise-time of the pulse. E1 will kill computers, cell phones, etc. a low yield nuc would generate an E1 from 5kV-10 kV / m. The sharp leading edge of the pulse is what latches up IC gates, especially in the range of 10^-9 or 10^-8 seconds. E1 does not couple very well to long lines.
Note: Even static electricity can blow the diodes across most IC gates causing a latchup of the gate. Leaving the device sit for a few days is sufficient to allows the charge to dissipate - which is why HP received so many HP-41 CMOS-based calculators back under warranty when in Corvallis they all functioned OK.
E2 couples to longer conductors such as vertical antenna towers and aircraft with trailing wires (see sub-chaser A/C such as the Orion). E2 is longer and can last up to a second. The usual lightning protection provides a measure of protection.
E3 is a problem because it can penetrate the ground with a frequency of less than 1Hz. The pulse rise can be 20 sec to a peak (as reported) and then decay over a minute or longer. An E3 pulse is dangerous for electric power systems even with buried cables because the very low frequency makes shielding extremely difficult. The end result would be transformer saturation and subsequent winding failure (all as observed), possibly delayed. Auroral EMP causes similar effects although primarily because of volts / meter EMF generation over many kilometersl.
Note: power companies have had major problems with auroral flux. ie: in Minnesota, an NSP power dispatcher told me that some days he cannot draw any power from Canada because of the voltage buildup on the lines. Those lines run N-S and the Earth rotates E-W, thus the classic voltage generation of a wire cutting flux. Instead he has to purchase the more expensive TVA power since those lines run E-W and are not affected by auroral flux.
Back on topic: The probable key to the missile test was both the rise-time and intensity of the microwave pulse which was sufficient to kill the electronics. ie: Even relatively small low-power devices at the EMP test range could kill a car ignition or flying model electronics w/in range of the pulse. No spectacular pyrotechnics were necessary.
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moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
slowly homing back in on the title...
As a retired EE and ex-mil zoomie, I stand in awe of the design of the SR-71. I bow in deepest appreciation of what the U2 pilots dealt with on their long flights. I listened to one U2 pilot describe his operations for 2 hours - for which he received a long standing ovation. The rumored Aurora will remain an enigma wrapped up in a mystery (except for the "popcorn on a string" contrails...) until maybe some years hence. Even the flight manual of the SR-71 was eventually declassified. Nevertheless, there are areas of endeavour that will remain in varying shades of black permanently. No Freedom of Information Act will ever touch those.
Drone aircraft are a continuing evolution of electronics and long-duration power plants. They will grow in size and capability, or shrink - and therein lies a fascination for me.
I am intrigued by the _very small_ aircraft and choppers. They are small enough to barely be heard or seen. Usually with electric drives. enter the flashaholic and modeler experiences with various battery chemistries. The use of super small A/C with cameras is already being explored by the military as well as local/state police in the US or Europe. With a camera on board, these A/C will save lives in stand-off situations. They will also increase the societal neurosis of being watched. From the military standpoint, if spotted, micro-A/C are difficult to hit even with an automatic weapon. A shotgun with bird-shot might have a chance. But very small flying objects with remote piloting are here and now. The only real question is - what are the rules governing their use?
Are there any super small aircraft or choppers in routine use even now?
As a retired EE and ex-mil zoomie, I stand in awe of the design of the SR-71. I bow in deepest appreciation of what the U2 pilots dealt with on their long flights. I listened to one U2 pilot describe his operations for 2 hours - for which he received a long standing ovation. The rumored Aurora will remain an enigma wrapped up in a mystery (except for the "popcorn on a string" contrails...) until maybe some years hence. Even the flight manual of the SR-71 was eventually declassified. Nevertheless, there are areas of endeavour that will remain in varying shades of black permanently. No Freedom of Information Act will ever touch those.
Drone aircraft are a continuing evolution of electronics and long-duration power plants. They will grow in size and capability, or shrink - and therein lies a fascination for me.
I am intrigued by the _very small_ aircraft and choppers. They are small enough to barely be heard or seen. Usually with electric drives. enter the flashaholic and modeler experiences with various battery chemistries.
The use of super small A/C with cameras is already being explored by the military as well as local/state police in the US or Europe. With a camera on board, these A/C will save lives in stand-off situations. They will also increase the societal neurosis of being watched. From the military standpoint, if spotted, micro-A/C are difficult to hit even with an automatic weapon. A shotgun with bird-shot might have a chance. But very small flying objects with remote piloting are here and now. The only real question is - what are the rules governing their use?Are there any super small aircraft or choppers in routine use even now?
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
My college roomie developed autonomous quad-copter software. That's like four n helicopters stuck together, and can fly in any direction. Not fast, and not efficient, but agile. Check out your local autonomous/unmanned (aerial/ground/water/underwater) vehicle club st colleges near you.
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting posts.
micro-uav
and
"perch and stare"
Creepy.
I think the only rule is don't get caught but that may even be too optimistic... It would seem that anything in use by our military today will be cheap enough to be purchased by our city governments tomorrow.
Two interesting Google queries are:
micro-uav
and
"perch and stare"
Creepy.
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
The "perch and stare" term I knew about, but in my Google searches, a couple levels down I discovered a British blog where the commentator used the term "Gargoyle" mode. Exactly what it implies. The A/C lands on a building and sits there watching whatever it wants. Since normal flight times seem to be less than an hour, with ~45 min having been reported in a DARPA flyoff , a Gargoyle mode would lengthen the deployment time significantly. As Sub_Umbra wrote - creepy! but already here...
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Bump. Still a valid recurrent topic. This time the BBC takes a guess at the X-37B, launch #3.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121123-secrets-of-us-military-spaceplane
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121123-secrets-of-us-military-spaceplane
idleprocess
Flashaholic
I would not be surprised if numerous militaries have non-nuclear EMP weapons. Designs like the explosively pumped flux compression generator are old hat by now - odds are that there are more powerful EMP bombs out there now with more focused pulses.
One suspects that the Boeing weapon is a scaled-up version of the various directional electronic disruptor plans that have been publicly available for years.
One suspects that the Boeing weapon is a scaled-up version of the various directional electronic disruptor plans that have been publicly available for years.
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Bump. Our understanding of secret A/C will have to be adjusted to the realities of technology. The B-58 Hustler (Mach 2+) & the SR71 (Mach 3+) are gone. Now the secret is launched in to orbit, or flies quietly over our heads..... Our obsession with "speed" is obsolete. The new secret is drones and their relative invisibility, whether because of size or stealth characteristics.
BTW, a piece of trivia: The B-58 was not only the first A/C faster than Mach 2, but reputedly also faster than the later fighters of that era. Ground crews for the B-58 Hustler could guess the achieved flight speeds quite closely after landing by looking at the extent of scorched paint on the fuselage. That is what 4 large afterburning engines can do!
--------------------------------
For model aircraft/helicopters, here is a link to the news Artikel from Die Welt:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/webwe...m-gefaehrdet-Privatsphaere-der-Deutschen.html
Model aircraft/helicopter drones are landing underneath the Christmas tree. HD Camera included. Drones for "household use" start at 100 Euro. A Quadrocopter with HD camera costs 300 Euro. A Zephyr (wingspan 1.5 meters) costs ~1910 Euro and has flown over the Matterhorn. Youtube has many videos of flights of the "Zephyr drone" or "Black Sheep drone". The heaviest "model aircraft" can be up to 25 Kilo. Model aircraft up to 5 Kilo do not require flight permissions. Controlled airspace begins above 1000 feet. Supposedly the drones are to be flown w/in visual range - but what happens if a camera in the nose is used to guide the drone? The Zephyr has flown up to 90KM and at altitudes up to 5.6KM, including over the Matterhorn.
For the non-German speakers, at least click on the video and watch the flight of the French Parrot Quadrocopter in front of the "Welt" building in Berlin. Usage? Drone pilots can use their Smartphone to guide the helicopter, receive video via WLAN, store that video on their Smartphone. Then they can click on "Like" and something is uploaded to Facebook. sooo, who is watching whom and where? and what will they do with that info? Aua! Ouch!
---------------------------------
For EMP afficiandos:
The Welt Artikel describes the offensive use of pulsed microwave generators as weapons.
http://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article112021103/Wie-man-ein-Land-mit-einer-Blitzwaffe-lahmlegt.html
BTW, a piece of trivia: The B-58 was not only the first A/C faster than Mach 2, but reputedly also faster than the later fighters of that era. Ground crews for the B-58 Hustler could guess the achieved flight speeds quite closely after landing by looking at the extent of scorched paint on the fuselage. That is what 4 large afterburning engines can do!
--------------------------------
For model aircraft/helicopters, here is a link to the news Artikel from Die Welt:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/webwe...m-gefaehrdet-Privatsphaere-der-Deutschen.html
Model aircraft/helicopter drones are landing underneath the Christmas tree. HD Camera included. Drones for "household use" start at 100 Euro. A Quadrocopter with HD camera costs 300 Euro. A Zephyr (wingspan 1.5 meters) costs ~1910 Euro and has flown over the Matterhorn. Youtube has many videos of flights of the "Zephyr drone" or "Black Sheep drone". The heaviest "model aircraft" can be up to 25 Kilo. Model aircraft up to 5 Kilo do not require flight permissions. Controlled airspace begins above 1000 feet. Supposedly the drones are to be flown w/in visual range - but what happens if a camera in the nose is used to guide the drone? The Zephyr has flown up to 90KM and at altitudes up to 5.6KM, including over the Matterhorn.
For the non-German speakers, at least click on the video and watch the flight of the French Parrot Quadrocopter in front of the "Welt" building in Berlin. Usage? Drone pilots can use their Smartphone to guide the helicopter, receive video via WLAN, store that video on their Smartphone. Then they can click on "Like" and something is uploaded to Facebook. sooo, who is watching whom and where? and what will they do with that info? Aua! Ouch!
---------------------------------
For EMP afficiandos:
The Welt Artikel describes the offensive use of pulsed microwave generators as weapons.
http://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article112021103/Wie-man-ein-Land-mit-einer-Blitzwaffe-lahmlegt.html
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
A Misty (KH13) probably needs a scheduled refueling sometime during the planned flight window. The KH12s were the first in the Big Bird line that were refuel-able. We all remember Top Secret shuttle missions with MIL only crews. The Russians probably won't fuel the Mistys for us. /sniff The grounding of the Shuttles was a dead giveaway that we had another way in place that could reliably refuel the late model KH birds.
IMO refueling Mistys is a handy, yet unmentionable cover that glosses over the fun experiments an X-37 may be up to. I doesn't take nine months to refuel a Misty. Even if most of the payload were hydrazine there would still probably be room left over for the X-37 to poop out an experimental pico satellite or two (each the size of a deck of playing cards) for a special mission when the right conditions back on earth arose...
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EZO
Flashlight Enthusiast
It is interesting that the latest launch of the X-37B happens to have been on the very same day as the North Korean launch of their first ever successful ICBM "satellite" orbital insertion. Perhaps it is a just coincidence as the X-37 had been previously "scheduled" for a launch around this time window. ..........Just sayin'.
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Sounds like a great mission for a pico satellite -- or a herd of them... Flock? Pod? Group.
moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
yup, and if someone happened to figure out the flight parameters of both missions, one might find that the X-37B just happens to match an insertion in to the orbit of the NK launch. however, in the correct parlance: confirmation of intellligence IS intelligence!
and if anyone noticed, the news clips showing the pickup of the first stage (or more....) of the NK launch vehicle on board a SK ship, buried in the text was the comment that US "specialists" joined the SK specialists in investigating the capabilities of the NK launch vehicle. That is the same process as when a Mig-25 left Soviet airspace and the pilot defected. In that case, the US completely dismantled the Mig-25 and shipped it off for lots of examination and sort of returned it... The Cold War may be officially over, but the ghosts are very much alive!
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moldyoldy
Flashlight Enthusiast
As you stated, it does not take nine months to refuel a Misty. but some of that hydrazine and time can be used to routinely change orbits to take nice close photos of all the interesting satellites up there........
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
As you stated, it does not take nine months to refuel a Misty. but some of that hydrazine and time can be used to routinely change orbits to take nice close photos of all the interesting satellites up there........
Regardless of time, it's fuel-intensive to change orbital inclination. There are some tricks you can play with that much time, picking an orbit that will go near the target of interest later, and carefully timing several quick photos as you scoot past... But it's tough to see more than several thousand meters. But a robot with solar panels has nothing but time.
Steve K
Flashlight Enthusiast
In an earlier post, I mentioned some info on the Dyna-Soar that suggested that the craft's aerodynamic features allowed a method to significantly change the vehicle's vector...
"A drawing in Space/Aeronautics magazine from before the project's cancellation depicts the craft dipping down into the atmosphere, skimming the surface, to change its orbital inclination. It would then fire its rocket to resume orbit. This would be a unique ability for a spacecraft, for the laws of celestial mechanics mean it requires an enormous expenditure of energy for a rocket to change its orbital inclination once it has reached orbit. Hence the Dyna-Soar could have had a military capacity of being launched into one orbit and rendezvousing with a satellite, even if the target were to expend all its propellant in changing its orbit. Acceleration forces on the pilot, however, would be severe in such a maneuver."
This is certainly something that a plain satellite cannot do, and provides all sorts of options for maneuvering.
It would be very interesting to know what the mission of the X-37 is, and it would be very surprising to see that info be made public.
