awenta
Enlightened
Alp, did you try the newer 3.04a (IIRC) from sb?
Also yaz get thicker or makeshift leads for more accurate high draw applications.
Also yaz get thicker or makeshift leads for more accurate high draw applications.
So I have this Maglite 3D sitting around...
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Thanks for the link to your post, the beam shots look great! So for the time being do you think I can just get the LED, heat sink, and driver and go with standard D cells for the time being? If so I'll try that and if the mod bug really bites me maybe I can push this light a little more.
alpg88
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it made little difference between 2p and 4p AA only 150ma. the most i got was from off fresh imr 1,9A. forward V doens,t make any differnce, since i tried with different bins of xml. the drivers are cc it will adjust voltage, but all xml i tried were between 3 and 3,3V even at 2,8a i didn't see more than 3,3V.
those drivers aren't exreamly efficient, that is true, but it wont affect output current, or voltage, it will just cosume more from the cells.
the difference between 1,6 1,7A and 2,8a is about 250-300lm, your eye would not see difference, human eye preseption of lumens isn't leniar.
even with 4 AA i got only 2,2A but i credit voltage sag of energizers 2300 for that, with 4D nimh cells i got 2,8A.
like i said, i would love for that driver to supply 2,8a from 3nimh or 1 li ion, but it just doesn't work like that in real world.
not to say that 1,5-1,7a isn't bright, like i said you most likely wont miss those few hundred lummens anyway, also when supplied with enogh voltage to make 2,8a those drivers heat up a lot and if not heatsinked will start blinking soon no matter the mode (internal heat protection kicks in).
few 1D maglites i build with those drivers work at 1,5-1,7a but they don't even heat up much, they can run on high untill the cell drains, but driver stays cool all the time.
those drivers aren't exreamly efficient, that is true, but it wont affect output current, or voltage, it will just cosume more from the cells.
the difference between 1,6 1,7A and 2,8a is about 250-300lm, your eye would not see difference, human eye preseption of lumens isn't leniar.
even with 4 AA i got only 2,2A but i credit voltage sag of energizers 2300 for that, with 4D nimh cells i got 2,8A.
like i said, i would love for that driver to supply 2,8a from 3nimh or 1 li ion, but it just doesn't work like that in real world.
not to say that 1,5-1,7a isn't bright, like i said you most likely wont miss those few hundred lummens anyway, also when supplied with enogh voltage to make 2,8a those drivers heat up a lot and if not heatsinked will start blinking soon no matter the mode (internal heat protection kicks in).
few 1D maglites i build with those drivers work at 1,5-1,7a but they don't even heat up much, they can run on high untill the cell drains, but driver stays cool all the time.
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awenta:
It isnt a lead problem for me, the meter simply will not display a current above 2 amps. I was wondering if alpg had done this in his 3s5p test on an XM-L.
i think driver efficiency with the 7135 is variable based on votlage input and output:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?192925-AMC7135-Specs-Inside-**UPDATE**
Efficiency appears to be based on the input and output votlage. Note that in those tests he appears to be useing an LED with a higher Vf (like an XP-G). It looks like the board drops around 0.1 to 0.2 volts, after you are applying more than that much over what the LED needs the extra voltage is stopped and "burned off" by the regulators. So from that page, with that emitter you'd be getting 80% eff with 4 cells and 63% eff with 5 cells.
If you looked at the efficiency only in terms of current then those drivers are very high. I understand this sounds like a strange thing to do but I find that when your batteries are rated in mAh and the efficiency is variable based on the input voltage and LED Vf it is nice to look at it as if it is 100% efficient in current and any extra voltage is wasted. It makes it nice for calculations of estimated run time by knowing when the batteries will drop out of regulation due to voltage sag at a given current but can NOT be used to refference it to other drivers that use a real efficiency calcultion.
So since current-in is effectivly equal to current-out for these drivers I don't think I need to worry about efficiency durring those calculations. That being said I was mostly basing my thoughts that 3 D NiMH would work on the idea that I was able to measure the same brightness form a light with a similar set up from 3 or 4 cells in serise for the initial portion of a brightness vs runtime test.
It isnt a lead problem for me, the meter simply will not display a current above 2 amps. I was wondering if alpg had done this in his 3s5p test on an XM-L.
i think driver efficiency with the 7135 is variable based on votlage input and output:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?192925-AMC7135-Specs-Inside-**UPDATE**
Efficiency appears to be based on the input and output votlage. Note that in those tests he appears to be useing an LED with a higher Vf (like an XP-G). It looks like the board drops around 0.1 to 0.2 volts, after you are applying more than that much over what the LED needs the extra voltage is stopped and "burned off" by the regulators. So from that page, with that emitter you'd be getting 80% eff with 4 cells and 63% eff with 5 cells.
If you looked at the efficiency only in terms of current then those drivers are very high. I understand this sounds like a strange thing to do but I find that when your batteries are rated in mAh and the efficiency is variable based on the input voltage and LED Vf it is nice to look at it as if it is 100% efficient in current and any extra voltage is wasted. It makes it nice for calculations of estimated run time by knowing when the batteries will drop out of regulation due to voltage sag at a given current but can NOT be used to refference it to other drivers that use a real efficiency calcultion.
So since current-in is effectivly equal to current-out for these drivers I don't think I need to worry about efficiency durring those calculations. That being said I was mostly basing my thoughts that 3 D NiMH would work on the idea that I was able to measure the same brightness form a light with a similar set up from 3 or 4 cells in serise for the initial portion of a brightness vs runtime test.
alpg88
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i didn't try 5p i tried 4p max, but result with 5p is very predictable.
i never get into detales how it works, what voltage drop or how many watts it dessapates, efficiancy%,.....etc, i just tell what results i had by actually testing\using them in real world.
i never get into detales how it works, what voltage drop or how many watts it dessapates, efficiancy%,.....etc, i just tell what results i had by actually testing\using them in real world.
player:
please confirm: your light has a "D" as the first digit in the serial nuimber. (that shoudl be stamped near the switch).
You also need thermal adhesive (epoxy) and soldering equipment (and a few spare wires). And if you had thermal grease as well thats a plus, you use it between the heatsink and the light where you wouldnt want to use epoxy.
That should allow for a voltage sensor if you wanted one at a later date (it might be hard to pull the heatsink back out without scratching it/putting plier marks in it). If you want to change the batteries to lithums you'd need a new driver.
I think that it will run at 2.8 amps for a decent amount of the runtime. alpg says it will not. I think him and I are both in agreence that it will be a nice bright light* though. I am certainly impressed with mine.
edit:
* by normal person standards. Flashaholics might not consider a single XM-L (even over driven) to be that bright.
please confirm: your light has a "D" as the first digit in the serial nuimber. (that shoudl be stamped near the switch).
You also need thermal adhesive (epoxy) and soldering equipment (and a few spare wires). And if you had thermal grease as well thats a plus, you use it between the heatsink and the light where you wouldnt want to use epoxy.
That should allow for a voltage sensor if you wanted one at a later date (it might be hard to pull the heatsink back out without scratching it/putting plier marks in it). If you want to change the batteries to lithums you'd need a new driver.
I think that it will run at 2.8 amps for a decent amount of the runtime. alpg says it will not. I think him and I are both in agreence that it will be a nice bright light* though. I am certainly impressed with mine.
edit:
* by normal person standards. Flashaholics might not consider a single XM-L (even over driven) to be that bright.
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LilKevin715
Enlightened
Player:
To help make your decision easier on which route you want to go I have one simple question for you: are you comfortable/experienced enough with a soldering iron? If you know how to solder then the rest is fairly easy. If you don't know how to solder then you can pretty much forget the DIY route and go with a dropin.
If you wanted to go the DIY route with a XM-L take a look at my build thread in my sig (don't forget yazovyet's either
). It shows for the most part step-by-step instructions. If you are comfortable enough with the overall process (and assuming you know how to solder) than it can be done.
Otherwise a dropin such as a Malkoff XP-G or a Terralux TLE-310M-EX (with 4 C cells) dropin would be easier.
To help make your decision easier on which route you want to go I have one simple question for you: are you comfortable/experienced enough with a soldering iron? If you know how to solder then the rest is fairly easy. If you don't know how to solder then you can pretty much forget the DIY route and go with a dropin.
If you wanted to go the DIY route with a XM-L take a look at my build thread in my sig (don't forget yazovyet's either
). It shows for the most part step-by-step instructions. If you are comfortable enough with the overall process (and assuming you know how to solder) than it can be done.Otherwise a dropin such as a Malkoff XP-G or a Terralux TLE-310M-EX (with 4 C cells) dropin would be easier.
alpg88
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or get der witchel 3xm-l drop in, (2500lm) it will reqire some soldering, and switch modification, but it isn't hard, step by step instructions are on this site, more than one thread, you can run it from 4x26500 cells in 3d tube, or 3x26650, pbly the brightest mag drop in available.
yazovyet
Yes it has a D at the beginning of the serial number.
LilKevin715
Yes I can solder, maybe not to any great standard but I've done my fair share over the years. Thanks for the help and pointing me to your link.
Why does it seem like most people are modding the 2D and not the 3D? Is it because the 2D is a cheaper light to buy?
Yes it has a D at the beginning of the serial number.
LilKevin715
Yes I can solder, maybe not to any great standard but I've done my fair share over the years. Thanks for the help and pointing me to your link.
Why does it seem like most people are modding the 2D and not the 3D? Is it because the 2D is a cheaper light to buy?
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LilKevin715
Enlightened
It's simply due to size most of the time and nothing more than that. I used a 2D with 3 C cells, while the same results with longer runtime can be achieved with a 3D and 3D cells.
2d vs 3d:
For me it was becasue I had a 2D from years ago. I used AAs because I had a AA charger and AAs sitting around to use. I imagine others (kevin) use a 2d since it is smaller (than a 3d) and can still fit 3 C cells.
Also thanks for pointing out your guide Lilkevin715, it looks good and should help Player out and I like that you were able to get a tail measure of 2.79 amps from the 3 NiMH cells; it gives me confidence that his mod with 3Ds should work just fine.
For me it was becasue I had a 2D from years ago. I used AAs because I had a AA charger and AAs sitting around to use. I imagine others (kevin) use a 2d since it is smaller (than a 3d) and can still fit 3 C cells.
Also thanks for pointing out your guide Lilkevin715, it looks good and should help Player out and I like that you were able to get a tail measure of 2.79 amps from the 3 NiMH cells; it gives me confidence that his mod with 3Ds should work just fine.
Once I do this and remove the cam from the switch is there any focus ability with the head of the light? I was thinking that since the LED is just poking through the reflector that by twisting the head a few turns either way there may still be some. It's not going to change my mind about doing it, just wanting to know.
Are these the right parts?
Cree XM-L T6
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-34/Cree-XM-dsh-L-T6-LED/Detail
Driver
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-132/3-dsh-Mode-Regulated-Circuit-Board/Detail
Heatsink H22A for P7 (does bare or coated matter?)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310770-********-H22A-Heatsinks-********
Plus thermal epoxy and Termal grease.
What gauge wires to get? I have wire around here but I think it's kinda hefty for this.
Cree XM-L T6
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-34/Cree-XM-dsh-L-T6-LED/Detail
Driver
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-132/3-dsh-Mode-Regulated-Circuit-Board/Detail
Heatsink H22A for P7 (does bare or coated matter?)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310770-********-H22A-Heatsinks-********
Plus thermal epoxy and Termal grease.
What gauge wires to get? I have wire around here but I think it's kinda hefty for this.
Theres some focus left, but turning the head on past the point where it would normally be focused (teh reflector then bottoms out on the heat sink). In my build thread the first beam shot is unfocused and the second is focused. That should give you an idea of what you can get. When unfocused there is what you'd call a hole in the middle. And you can screw the head all the way off but that does expose the LED and thus theres some risk of things hitting the LED. I once screwed the head off mine, taped a rope to the tail end and hoisted it up a tree to light up a decent sized area (20x20 feet?) so we could have some light while eating at night.
LilKevin715
Enlightened
You can obtain most of the supplies needed from Craig (csshih) at illuminationsupply.com. I do order stuff from shiningbeam (BTW Bryan is a great guy there), but he doesn't have everything you need.
Please note that you will need to get a LED mounted on a 14mm diameter mcpcb board or less. As for wire I'd recommend 20-24 guage teflon wire. You can use either the bare P7 flattop or the bare DHS flattop (I used the DHS) as the LED emitter board is electrically neutral. The HAIII coated heatsinks are for emitters such as the SSC P4/P7.
Please note that you will need to get a LED mounted on a 14mm diameter mcpcb board or less. As for wire I'd recommend 20-24 guage teflon wire. You can use either the bare P7 flattop or the bare DHS flattop (I used the DHS) as the LED emitter board is electrically neutral. The HAIII coated heatsinks are for emitters such as the SSC P4/P7.
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HS: I used bare. FLAT TOP. p7. I think Lilkevin used the DHS with the cavity in the back. I liked the solid one to give more thermal mass and slightly better thermal transmission (slighty better cooling) but the one with the cavity in the back gives more space incase you want to put more stuff in there. I don't reallt know how much space mine left but i don know the driver and wires fit in without issue
LED: you'll want a 14mm round board, if SB doesnt have one you could try illumination supply, but they only have T5s and below. A T5 should give a nicer colour of light but will not be quite as bright as the T6 or the even brighter U2. If I was makign another light I'd go T5 personally.
driver: yes but as LilKevin mentioned SB doesnt have the LED you need so to combine shipping i'd look into the https://illuminationsupply.com/8xamc7135-304a-selectable-mode-driver-p-142.html driver from IS. You might want to see if it has the wires soldered on it as those are small and can be hard to do correctly.
wire: Some people will tell you to replace the driver to LED wire but I think that can be somewhat hard depending on your sodlering skills. I was too nervous and had a club of a soldering iron so I didn't. For the switch to driver wire I used some from and old computer PSU, I think it was around 18-20 gage.
LED: you'll want a 14mm round board, if SB doesnt have one you could try illumination supply, but they only have T5s and below. A T5 should give a nicer colour of light but will not be quite as bright as the T6 or the even brighter U2. If I was makign another light I'd go T5 personally.
driver: yes but as LilKevin mentioned SB doesnt have the LED you need so to combine shipping i'd look into the https://illuminationsupply.com/8xamc7135-304a-selectable-mode-driver-p-142.html driver from IS. You might want to see if it has the wires soldered on it as those are small and can be hard to do correctly.
wire: Some people will tell you to replace the driver to LED wire but I think that can be somewhat hard depending on your sodlering skills. I was too nervous and had a club of a soldering iron so I didn't. For the switch to driver wire I used some from and old computer PSU, I think it was around 18-20 gage.
Illumination supply shows back order for the LED. Why is board size important, is it just for centering? I've seen 14mm, 16mm, and 20mm. I was wondering about asking the guy who makes the heatsinks if he could make one with a 20mm center and I could get the Cree XM-L U2.
I was wondering why the heatsinks are not made out of copper, they would have better conductivity and thermal dissipation then aluminum.
I was wondering why the heatsinks are not made out of copper, they would have better conductivity and thermal dissipation then aluminum.
back order: hum, thats too bad. Suppose you could email and ask how long till it is expected to come in. Another option would be to go with the 10mm or the T4 (I think T4 is a little low though). The 10mm would be a little harder to center and would theoretically have somewhat worse cooling proporties but would otherwise work. I don't know how much that would really affect it. You could check dealextreme or kaidomain (or other suppliers) to see if they have XM-Ls on 14mm rounds. But be aware that DX and kai take over a month to ship to the states.
The reflector has a hole that is around 15mm. So you need a board that is smaller. You COULD take off crazy amounts of reflector to fit a larger board but I think that woudl end badly and the focus woudl be aweful. The heatsink has a pedistal that is 14.5 mm wide.
Copper is heavy and costly.
As far as I know the guy who makes the sinks can't/doesn't do custom work.
The reflector has a hole that is around 15mm. So you need a board that is smaller. You COULD take off crazy amounts of reflector to fit a larger board but I think that woudl end badly and the focus woudl be aweful. The heatsink has a pedistal that is 14.5 mm wide.
Copper is heavy and costly.
As far as I know the guy who makes the sinks can't/doesn't do custom work.
alpg88
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you don't need small star to go thru opening.
you need deep reflector, z battery sells it for $2,50.
its focus is right at the edge of the opening, it is bulb reflector that has focus inside, use 20mm star, and deep reflector, it has been done many times,
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ag-Build-with-Neutral-XML-and-Rebel-Reflector
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?305258-First-XM-L-experience-blinding-success
i myself build few of those.
you could use copper too, if you can find one, even better.
or you can use any heatsink, upside down, i used h22 heatsinks, i cut off the lip with sheet metal sheers and drilled a hole across the sink and the tube, than inserted pin, so it stays in place, after i found correct its position in the light, just make sure you center the star, you can glue it or drill holes and use nuts and bolts, or if you have taps you can cut threads in the sink and use just machine screws, i use 2,5mm screws, cuz i have them.
one thing you got to keep in mind when using deep reflector, heatsink has to sit deper into the tube, so don't get those tall heatsinks, get regular sized (about 1\2 inch tall).
that is how i did my 1 26650 maglite,
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/alpg88/3.jpg
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awenta
Enlightened
Actually led tech has 7x U2 XML on a copper board
