rufus001
Enlightened
It's a non issue for me. I haven't even noticed it before or after Tim mentioned it.
SPARK SP6 Review (5 x XM-L T6 | 6 x 18650 / 12 x CR123A)
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@warmurf - as mentioned, I've not experienced any issues but then again, I've only gone through two cycles and the cells have all been within +/- .01v of each other. If one takes extra precautions (not overdischarging, checking cells after charging, being around and monitoring while charging) then I feel the risks should be reasonably low, although not completely gone. For additional safety, you may elect to swap out the unprotected cells with protected ones of the same brand and age as an added safety measure. However, in spite of this, you should still check the voltage of each individual cells after every few charges. I've been pretty swamped but I hope to graph the charging algo shortly.
@IMSabbel - I'll update the review to clarify but thanks for bringing it up.
@rufus - thx for your feedback.
@IMSabbel - I'll update the review to clarify but thanks for bringing it up.
@rufus - thx for your feedback.
warmurf
Enlightened
Thanks Tim. I couldn't wait any longer for the full review- I've pulled the trigger....
The inclusion of Good quality but unprotected and low capacity batteries,
combined with the unbalanced and unreliable charger is a clever camouflage to justify the high price tag.
I am sure the SPARK SP6 would sell much better if optionally offered without the batteries and charger but at a more realistic price.
combined with the unbalanced and unreliable charger is a clever camouflage to justify the high price tag.
I am sure the SPARK SP6 would sell much better if optionally offered without the batteries and charger but at a more realistic price.
For those not interested in the SP6 due to the packaged arrangement, I'd suggest you voice it over on CPFMP or to contact SPARK directly. Perhaps if there is enough of a response they may consider it so it couldn't hurt to ask.
"You're taking the statement out of context..."
Sorry, my bad... I glossed over the "2 second" part. However, charger/battery issues aside, what kind of throw does it have? I'm not looking for another high power area light. It's reflector doesn't seem particularly deep and I've seen the phrase "wall of light" applied to it. Personally, I think the manufacturers should start concentrating more on throw vs raw lumens. I considered the SR95UT, but it's really large and out of my price comfort zone. I'm looking forward to some outdoor beamshot comparisons of the SP6 against other lights. Thanks for the nice review.
Sorry, my bad... I glossed over the "2 second" part. However, charger/battery issues aside, what kind of throw does it have? I'm not looking for another high power area light. It's reflector doesn't seem particularly deep and I've seen the phrase "wall of light" applied to it. Personally, I think the manufacturers should start concentrating more on throw vs raw lumens. I considered the SR95UT, but it's really large and out of my price comfort zone. I'm looking forward to some outdoor beamshot comparisons of the SP6 against other lights. Thanks for the nice review.
All, bulk of Design/Features section now added (I'll wrap up battery carrier and charger next).
@Albert56 - nope, that would actually be my bad. I should've been a bit more clearer but thanks to the follow up questions here, I've updated the review. Not sure if you've seen my Memorial Day Camping Thread but the SP6 would slot between the TN30 and XTAR S1 in throw but will have the brightest spill. Take a look at the beach shots and if you think you like the output on the XTAR S1 or TN30, you will likely be impressed by the SP6.
Again, this is why I think SPARK is on to something with these side firing emitters as it allows pretty decent throw despite having a relatively shallow reflector.
I'll be back at that same camp spot in a few weeks after which I'll have a massive comparo thread again.
Cheers,
Tim
@Albert56 - nope, that would actually be my bad. I should've been a bit more clearer but thanks to the follow up questions here, I've updated the review. Not sure if you've seen my Memorial Day Camping Thread but the SP6 would slot between the TN30 and XTAR S1 in throw but will have the brightest spill. Take a look at the beach shots and if you think you like the output on the XTAR S1 or TN30, you will likely be impressed by the SP6.
Again, this is why I think SPARK is on to something with these side firing emitters as it allows pretty decent throw despite having a relatively shallow reflector.
I'll be back at that same camp spot in a few weeks after which I'll have a massive comparo thread again.
Cheers,
Tim
warmurf
Enlightened
OK,
So I've decided I'm going to swap out the batteries it's comin with, if for no other reason but for extended run time (looking at the graph with the Xtars- a 10 minute difference on high) but need to
decide what to replace them with. I have 2900AWs already so that would be an easy choice.
Any recommendations for the best suit for this light, for both output and running time?
So I've decided I'm going to swap out the batteries it's comin with, if for no other reason but for extended run time (looking at the graph with the Xtars- a 10 minute difference on high) but need to
decide what to replace them with. I have 2900AWs already so that would be an easy choice.
Any recommendations for the best suit for this light, for both output and running time?
rufus001
Enlightened
Woohoo!
Jabberwocke
Newly Enlightened
O.K. returning member that forgot his password. Last seen here with 2006 Surefire U2 (still works). Ordered SP6 and am worried about using included unprotected batteries. Plan to buy some Xtar 3100 and replace the originals. Are the originals safe to use in a parallel light such as a TM11 ? Would use external charger such as Pila. Any thoughts ?
@warmurf - given the high voltage, the draw is actually very reasonable. I measured roughly 1.6A draw on Max so I'd recommend using HKJ's excellent cell comparator:
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
and selecting the 2A button then clicking through various cells to see which gives you the best runtime (longest line) or highest v output (tallest line overall) depending on your needs. I used to think that just 'cuz a cell was higher in capacity and was able to best another cell at a higher draw that it'd naturally beat it at lower draw but as you play around with his tool, you'll come to see that's not always the case.
@Jabberwocke - welcome back from your hiatus! The cells feature button tops so can be used in the TM11 but again, with the usual caveats that go along with using unprotected cells. Despite its parallel arrangement, there still is a chance (even if a reduced one) that one cell can be discharged disproportionately from the others. If you follow safe LiIon handling practices (monitoring voltage of each cell after charge, not overdischarging, etc.) then I don't see why these cells can't be used. If however, you'd rather not take a chance at all then I'd recommend just selling them and getting protected cells for your TM11 as well.
Likewise with the charger, per the past few previous replies, if you don't feel comfortable with the potential risks of unbalanced cells then best to remove the batteries and charge them individually with an external charger.
My bottom line on this is that I personally feel comfortable using the supplied charger as well as the unprotected cells since I'm pretty careful about checking cells, etc. but in this litigious society, one would be foolish to recommend that unconditionally to another in case something does happen so ultimately, you'll need to make that decision for yourself.
Cheers,
Tim
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
and selecting the 2A button then clicking through various cells to see which gives you the best runtime (longest line) or highest v output (tallest line overall) depending on your needs. I used to think that just 'cuz a cell was higher in capacity and was able to best another cell at a higher draw that it'd naturally beat it at lower draw but as you play around with his tool, you'll come to see that's not always the case.
@Jabberwocke - welcome back from your hiatus! The cells feature button tops so can be used in the TM11 but again, with the usual caveats that go along with using unprotected cells. Despite its parallel arrangement, there still is a chance (even if a reduced one) that one cell can be discharged disproportionately from the others. If you follow safe LiIon handling practices (monitoring voltage of each cell after charge, not overdischarging, etc.) then I don't see why these cells can't be used. If however, you'd rather not take a chance at all then I'd recommend just selling them and getting protected cells for your TM11 as well.
Likewise with the charger, per the past few previous replies, if you don't feel comfortable with the potential risks of unbalanced cells then best to remove the batteries and charge them individually with an external charger.
My bottom line on this is that I personally feel comfortable using the supplied charger as well as the unprotected cells since I'm pretty careful about checking cells, etc. but in this litigious society, one would be foolish to recommend that unconditionally to another in case something does happen so ultimately, you'll need to make that decision for yourself.
Cheers,
Tim
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warmurf
Enlightened
Thanks for the info Tim, very helpful! I'll run the supplied batteries for a while and will decide on a secondary set for longer running after reviewing HKJ's data. Cheers!!
Ricky
Ricky
f22shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think the built in charger has its purpose. For example you are on vacation or work and you want a simple solution to top off the cells. Then at home you should individually charge the cells.
I mean it's a plus rather than a minus to have this feature. It doesnt affect the water resistance . It's there when you need it but shouldn't be relied on.
I mean it's a plus rather than a minus to have this feature. It doesnt affect the water resistance . It's there when you need it but shouldn't be relied on.
warmurf
Enlightened
Yep, totally agree.
The only down side I'm seeing with this light is the performance sag when it get's hot, which looks to be within 15 minutes of start-up on turbo. Un-cooled the drop in output is very significant, and was one of the concerns around this light from concept. That said, there would hopefully not be too many occasions where you'd need to be running the light at full bore for durations such as that, and if you drop it down in output for durations it will probably hold full output for 5-10 minute runs (from the data I'm seeing) and that looks to me to be great for normal use.
The one stand-out for this light is it appears to be one of the best lights for sustained output over duration within the high power class of lights.
The only down side I'm seeing with this light is the performance sag when it get's hot, which looks to be within 15 minutes of start-up on turbo. Un-cooled the drop in output is very significant, and was one of the concerns around this light from concept. That said, there would hopefully not be too many occasions where you'd need to be running the light at full bore for durations such as that, and if you drop it down in output for durations it will probably hold full output for 5-10 minute runs (from the data I'm seeing) and that looks to me to be great for normal use.
The one stand-out for this light is it appears to be one of the best lights for sustained output over duration within the high power class of lights.
NorthernStar
Enlightened
That sounds great!
I look forward to see that massive comparo. Hopefully that means that one can finaly see some good longdistance beamshots on the SP6. I am very curious to see how the SP6 compares to the Olight SR92(and the Olight SR95 as well) and the Xtar S1 when it comes to throw and flood.
Edit: I now saw in this thread that some comparsions have been done: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?342542
The SP6 looks like it has a broader beam than the SR95 by judging from those pics at the distance of 100 yards,but it would be great to see more comparsions and at even longer distances.
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Jabberwocke
Newly Enlightened
I know that I am getting off topic from the SP6 review, but how much unprotected cell voltage imbalance is acceptable ? I understand that the current flow due to imbalance will not be limited by the missing protection PCB, but instead by cell and path resistance. If the resistance is on the order of tens to hundreds of milliohms, then it seems an imbalance of 100mV when charged would be unsafe. Is there a thread on this topic ?
Short of the whitewall/outdoor shots (and potentially some add'l runtime testing), this review is now wrapped up. Tons of new material added along with full Charging graph and details (search multiple instances of 8/18). If you can't be bothered to go back to OP, my opinion on the charger is that it's quite good, exhibiting a very good CC/CV charge curve.
Cheers,
Tim
Cheers,
Tim
jake25
Enlightened
Very interesting a good CC/CV curve.
Hi Tim, outstanding review. Very thorough and detailed, nice job. :thumbsup:
I'm glad to see you did the detailed charging current/voltage testing. I haven't bothered, given that you need to set everything up outside the light (as you thoughtfully did). And as you pointed out, the ~2.1mA drain from the battery indicator shouldn't be an issue for this kind of testing. I too am glad to see the CC/CV pattern.
However, I'm disappointed to see that the charger doesn't terminate when the light goes green. I suspect as much in my review, where I noted that when I left my AW 2200mAh cells connected to the charger for an extra couple of hours they came out at higher voltage. Typically, my charger read just under 25.4V when first green (with all cells < or = 4.23V). But on that extended charge, it came out at just over 25.5V, with all cells between ~4.25-4.26V. So it looks like my unit is willing to charger a little higher than yours. >= 4.25V per cell is definitely beyond my personal comfort level, so I will be recommending people pull the charger as soon as it goes green.
Anyway, great that you actually confirmed it directly. I agree that it's not really an issue at the tail-end of charging, as it should be more than balanced out by the battery indicator drain normally.
Good job! :wave:
Thx selfbuilt! I plan on doing another graph of the charging in the future but in the light just need to figure out how to do it w/out shorting it since the pos/neg contact points are right next to each other. Will post results whenever I get to that.
Cheers,
Tim
Cheers,
Tim
