the maximum voltage of the model hd18650 is 6v and theoretically we could use 4AA.
but I am in doubt if current might be too much for AA batteries?
I always had that doubt.
what is the consumption limit (in amperes) of eneloops?
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the maximum voltage of the model hd18650 is 6v and theoretically we could use 4AA.
but I am in doubt if current might be too much for AA batteries?
I always had that doubt.
what is the consumption limit (in amperes) of eneloops?
really very impressive!
thank you for sharing this information and for running the runtime test
thermal guy
Flashaholic
INFRNL is doing the real work. I'm just keeping track of the hours and running into my dark basement every few hours to see if it is still usable. I have started to take photos at different points so I can show how it is in real world. It's at 4-5 lumens and that doesn' sound to impressive but with this light it looks more like 20. And is very usable
thermal guy
Flashaholic
95 HOURS NOW! On 2 AA!! And yes it's still plenty bright to walk around with.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
I will attempt a test today on 4xAA. Super Plus on the low mode. I don't have huge expectations from the high mode but will try that too.
That will depend if the battery fit is good.
Just a quick back of the envelope calculation reveals that, given AA is 50.5mm (of course) and an 18650 mm (is 65mm obviously), 4xAA=202mm and 3x18650=195mm. Given my 18650s are protected, this adds just a hair (a millimeter or 2) over the non-protected version that they is presumably 65mm, which should land 3x18650, if they are 67mm right at 201mm overall length.
So I remain cautiously optimistic. If this works, the MD6 body has an unexpected benefit.
If the 4xAA configuration works half-way, this means my 3xAA FiveMega body is obsolete and has little point. I only kept it for the last decade or so just in case I run out of all the Li-ion cells, all the primaries and am stuck with a sea of AA batteries and nowhere to put them at.
The 3xAA body is a great way to engage Malkoff devices and the AA chemistry of any permutation but the 4XAA configuration is an even more successful marriage. The thing about AA is that you need lots of it, the more, the better as Malkoff Devices love the voltage. Remember all the great incan mods from 10 years ago? They all relied on the myriad of AA cells. This really isn't all that different.
Recall, the Lithium L91 AA cell comes at 1.8V fresh out of the box, or so, meaning 4 cells pull about 7V which is nice. So in a pinch, you could run that chemistry also. I will try to get some beamshots up tonight.
That will depend if the battery fit is good.
Just a quick back of the envelope calculation reveals that, given AA is 50.5mm (of course) and an 18650 mm (is 65mm obviously), 4xAA=202mm and 3x18650=195mm. Given my 18650s are protected, this adds just a hair (a millimeter or 2) over the non-protected version that they is presumably 65mm, which should land 3x18650, if they are 67mm right at 201mm overall length.
So I remain cautiously optimistic. If this works, the MD6 body has an unexpected benefit.
If the 4xAA configuration works half-way, this means my 3xAA FiveMega body is obsolete and has little point. I only kept it for the last decade or so just in case I run out of all the Li-ion cells, all the primaries and am stuck with a sea of AA batteries and nowhere to put them at.
The 3xAA body is a great way to engage Malkoff devices and the AA chemistry of any permutation but the 4XAA configuration is an even more successful marriage. The thing about AA is that you need lots of it, the more, the better as Malkoff Devices love the voltage. Remember all the great incan mods from 10 years ago? They all relied on the myriad of AA cells. This really isn't all that different.
Recall, the Lithium L91 AA cell comes at 1.8V fresh out of the box, or so, meaning 4 cells pull about 7V which is nice. So in a pinch, you could run that chemistry also. I will try to get some beamshots up tonight.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
tab665
Flashlight Enthusiast
xhp-35 HI is a led, not a flashlight. it's an even larger version of the factory dedomed xpl HI. also requires more volts.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
I just test drove the Super Plus edition in the 4xAA Eneloop configuration. I must say I was shocked how well it worked. I expected far lower output. It did not hit the entire 1200 or whatever it's rated for lumens - I think I have the "neutral" Super Plus which makes it a bit lower lumen-wise. I would estimate I hit somewhere between 800-900 lumens, there was a drop versus 3x18650 that generates about 12V but the 4xAA configuration was still stunningly bright. We are talking about 4 stupid Eneloops that only generate 1.2 to 1.3V at most. And I don't know what they do under load. So we are looking somewhere around 6V to round it off. In a light that's spec'ed up to 12-14V. It's a miracle the thing worked at all but work it did and splendid. The lumens held stable and didn't drop sharply. I was delighted.
The most surprising thing, after a 45 minute walk, where I alternated between high and low, the Eneloops still tested at 1.29V or so, leaving the charger at 1.35V or so. That was very impressive. I dreaded seeing them discharged to 0.9V or something.
Hint, this would be an interesting test to run. Lumens versus runtime on Super Plus (MD6) body and 4xAA Eneloops. Perhaps both low and high.
The thing that would really shine in the MD6 body are of course the L91 Lithiums. They are 1.75-1.8V fresh, sustain the load well and are arguably equal to 4x123 in terms of capacity - lower volts but higher 2900 mAh versus only 1500 mAh of the 123s. Not that 4x123 are that great but it does give you options. I suspect 4xL91s generate lower lumens but better runtime than 4x123 which run at full output and then basically walk off the cliff circa 30 minutes.
If you have a ton of AA Alkalines laying around, or perhaps you have a source of free ones, that opens up all kinds of options.
FWIW, I have a 3xAA FiveMega body laying around and have tried, over the years, to run all kinds of M6x modules in it and it worked - somewhat but not entirely satisfactory. It ran out of regulation, long runtime but not so impressive lumens. And I've always wondered, what kind of lumens would I get if I could run a Malkoff in a 4xAA configuration?
My test today provided a decent though not exhaustive answer.
It is very tempting at this point to run the 'regular' Hound Dog in the 'Plus' configuration and see what happens.
Or bolting the 18650 HD to the MD6 body and running it off Eneloops.
It does have lower current requirements which should make it even more suitable.
The most surprising thing, after a 45 minute walk, where I alternated between high and low, the Eneloops still tested at 1.29V or so, leaving the charger at 1.35V or so. That was very impressive. I dreaded seeing them discharged to 0.9V or something.
Hint, this would be an interesting test to run. Lumens versus runtime on Super Plus (MD6) body and 4xAA Eneloops. Perhaps both low and high.
The thing that would really shine in the MD6 body are of course the L91 Lithiums. They are 1.75-1.8V fresh, sustain the load well and are arguably equal to 4x123 in terms of capacity - lower volts but higher 2900 mAh versus only 1500 mAh of the 123s. Not that 4x123 are that great but it does give you options. I suspect 4xL91s generate lower lumens but better runtime than 4x123 which run at full output and then basically walk off the cliff circa 30 minutes.
If you have a ton of AA Alkalines laying around, or perhaps you have a source of free ones, that opens up all kinds of options.
FWIW, I have a 3xAA FiveMega body laying around and have tried, over the years, to run all kinds of M6x modules in it and it worked - somewhat but not entirely satisfactory. It ran out of regulation, long runtime but not so impressive lumens. And I've always wondered, what kind of lumens would I get if I could run a Malkoff in a 4xAA configuration?
My test today provided a decent though not exhaustive answer.
It is very tempting at this point to run the 'regular' Hound Dog in the 'Plus' configuration and see what happens.
Or bolting the 18650 HD to the MD6 body and running it off Eneloops.
It does have lower current requirements which should make it even more suitable.
very interesting!
A question: Have you measured the ampere consumption?
I'm afraid the amperage is too high for the eneloops.
Does anyone know the maximum discharge amperage recommended for eneloops?
archimedes
Flashaholic
Although they will heat up significantly, eneloops can tolerate surprisingly high current draws ...
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3MCC 1900mAh (White) UK.html
Performance is progressively reduced under very high amperage, as is cell lifespan, of course.
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3MCC 1900mAh (White) UK.html
Performance is progressively reduced under very high amperage, as is cell lifespan, of course.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting point you make, about Amps. It hasn't occurred to me to check for the drain.
Two potential solutions:
Run it on low - still a pretty respectable lumen rating at somewhere sub-100 lumens. That and the runtime will get extended.
Second idea, run on Alkalines. Or Energizer Lithiums (L91s).
The AA configuration is not supposed to be the end result, it's more of an emergency situation where you lack access to either 123 cells or 18650 or 18500s, or any other non-AA configuration and just happen to have a million Alkaline AA cells laying around, or dozens of Eneloops.
The ideal Hound Dog Super Plus configuration is of course 3x18650 3500 mAh cells. That is the optimum configuration for the Super IMO. The unexpected benefit of 3x18650 is that the light is better balanced IMO. The current is reduced and the runtime is increased. With a slight bump in lumens.
The fact 4xAA fits into MD6 -- and works -- is just icing on the cake and an unexpected benefit.
Yes, it will work on Eneloops. However you are not getting the full lumen rating. And you know, it's hard to tell the difference between a 900 lumen device and a 1200 lumen device, if you don't have them side by size. Both are significantly bright. With 4 Eneloops, I was able to throw way out there. I think it's close to the 1000 lumen mark. I am not that good at estimating lumens within 100 lumens. It's way brighter than M91T let's put it that way but a hair less bright than Super Plus on Li-ion cells.
What I can do next time is, run the 18650 Hound Dog in the MD6 configuration off 4xAA and compare it, side by side with the 'regular' Hound Dog with 2x18650. I know that in their stock configuration, the lumens are identical. So that will shed some light upon just how many lumens are lost when going to the AA config. Perhaps that info can be extrapolated about Super Plus 4xAA configuration.
Two potential solutions:
Run it on low - still a pretty respectable lumen rating at somewhere sub-100 lumens. That and the runtime will get extended.
Second idea, run on Alkalines. Or Energizer Lithiums (L91s).
The AA configuration is not supposed to be the end result, it's more of an emergency situation where you lack access to either 123 cells or 18650 or 18500s, or any other non-AA configuration and just happen to have a million Alkaline AA cells laying around, or dozens of Eneloops.
The ideal Hound Dog Super Plus configuration is of course 3x18650 3500 mAh cells. That is the optimum configuration for the Super IMO. The unexpected benefit of 3x18650 is that the light is better balanced IMO. The current is reduced and the runtime is increased. With a slight bump in lumens.
The fact 4xAA fits into MD6 -- and works -- is just icing on the cake and an unexpected benefit.
Yes, it will work on Eneloops. However you are not getting the full lumen rating. And you know, it's hard to tell the difference between a 900 lumen device and a 1200 lumen device, if you don't have them side by size. Both are significantly bright. With 4 Eneloops, I was able to throw way out there. I think it's close to the 1000 lumen mark. I am not that good at estimating lumens within 100 lumens. It's way brighter than M91T let's put it that way but a hair less bright than Super Plus on Li-ion cells.
What I can do next time is, run the 18650 Hound Dog in the MD6 configuration off 4xAA and compare it, side by side with the 'regular' Hound Dog with 2x18650. I know that in their stock configuration, the lumens are identical. So that will shed some light upon just how many lumens are lost when going to the AA config. Perhaps that info can be extrapolated about Super Plus 4xAA configuration.
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etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
Now if you really have some exclusive commitment to the AA platform and hate 18650 with a passion as well as 123s *but* you must have the Super Plus, the AA edition, bolt a 9P sized extension to the MD6 body, resulting in what one might call MD9. That way, 2 additional AA cells fit in it, for the total of 6 AA cells.
With the resulting voltage of circa 9V, this should fit squarely in the middle of the Super's voltage range and I am sure you will get the fully spec'ed 1250 lumens or so, in the neutral case anyway.
Or bolt two MD6 bodies together. Ending up with MD12. That will take twice the cells of MD6, or 8xAA cells. Apparently the voltage should still behave well at 8*1.5=12V, within specs. Then the voltage will decrease under load.
No, it does not make any sense. And no, you won't be able to run anything else in it. And yes it will be bigger than a 6D Maglite that's already gigantic.
But Malkoff Lego opens up all kinds of possibilities. If you just happen to have these various extensions laying around, how can you go through life without trying this even once. Remember 10 years ago the forum modded Mags with 6-8 Eneloops to get lower lumens and far lesser runtime than this beast. I wonder what might be the runtime off 8 Eneloops.
With the resulting voltage of circa 9V, this should fit squarely in the middle of the Super's voltage range and I am sure you will get the fully spec'ed 1250 lumens or so, in the neutral case anyway.
Or bolt two MD6 bodies together. Ending up with MD12. That will take twice the cells of MD6, or 8xAA cells. Apparently the voltage should still behave well at 8*1.5=12V, within specs. Then the voltage will decrease under load.
No, it does not make any sense. And no, you won't be able to run anything else in it. And yes it will be bigger than a 6D Maglite that's already gigantic.
But Malkoff Lego opens up all kinds of possibilities. If you just happen to have these various extensions laying around, how can you go through life without trying this even once. Remember 10 years ago the forum modded Mags with 6-8 Eneloops to get lower lumens and far lesser runtime than this beast. I wonder what might be the runtime off 8 Eneloops.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
You know I ran a test similar to what I'm doing with my 18650 a few years back. With a M60 LL. it worked fantastic with the rechargeables. Was 100 times better with just alkalines and was horrible with energizers. Not sure why but runtime was almost cut in half.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yep, I remember. There was a bunch of threads in the 08, 09 time frame.
The low permutations of the M60 platform work well with the 2xAA, better with 3xAA and best with 4xAA. I suppose if we commit to the AA format, we can bolt 2 3xAA bodies together resulting in a 6xAA device that still keeps at around 9V.
The practicality value of such a device is nil but the amusement value is high.
If Malkoff made and sold a complete MD6 body - without me having to buy an aftermarket 1x18650 extensions to convert an existing MD4 body into MD6 - I would buy at least one. OTOH, a modular body is nice too. When you are tired of the MD6, you can unbolt the extension and voila, you have a much more reasonable MD4 light. MD6 *is* huge. I estimate it's right there with a 4D Maglite in size.
That's as good as it gets.
Come to think of it, I would buy a Hound Dog / Hound Dog Super in the MD6 configuration that was able to run either 3x18650 or 6x123 - or 4xAA lights. Yes, all that. I also don't expect this to be a gigantic commercial hit.
I recall Leef made some 3x18650 bodies back in the day. Not sure if FiveMega ever did. But Malkoff does not - not yet anyway. Thus you are limited to buying 1x18650 extensions from Oveready or FiveMega to convert the existing MD4.
Malkoff Hound Dog Super Plus. In a world of compromise, some don't.
The low permutations of the M60 platform work well with the 2xAA, better with 3xAA and best with 4xAA. I suppose if we commit to the AA format, we can bolt 2 3xAA bodies together resulting in a 6xAA device that still keeps at around 9V.
The practicality value of such a device is nil but the amusement value is high.
If Malkoff made and sold a complete MD6 body - without me having to buy an aftermarket 1x18650 extensions to convert an existing MD4 body into MD6 - I would buy at least one. OTOH, a modular body is nice too. When you are tired of the MD6, you can unbolt the extension and voila, you have a much more reasonable MD4 light. MD6 *is* huge. I estimate it's right there with a 4D Maglite in size.
That's as good as it gets.
Come to think of it, I would buy a Hound Dog / Hound Dog Super in the MD6 configuration that was able to run either 3x18650 or 6x123 - or 4xAA lights. Yes, all that. I also don't expect this to be a gigantic commercial hit.
I recall Leef made some 3x18650 bodies back in the day. Not sure if FiveMega ever did. But Malkoff does not - not yet anyway. Thus you are limited to buying 1x18650 extensions from Oveready or FiveMega to convert the existing MD4.
Malkoff Hound Dog Super Plus. In a world of compromise, some don't.
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archimedes
Flashaholic
With all this talk of adding threaded extenders to the host, it is worth considering that this does result in decreased structural strength of the tube, and increased electrical resistance to the circuit path.
Both effects are amplified with the use of multiple extensions.
Both effects are amplified with the use of multiple extensions.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
130 HOURS or roughly 5 1/2 days now! On 2XAA alkalines that can be scavenged anywhere in an emergency And we are still talking about enough output to very easily see with. I'm kinda at a loss for words on this light. 😊😊
AndyF
Flashlight Enthusiast
Intriguing!
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
You are running the 18650 Hound Dog mated to the MD3 body with 2xAA Alkalines in it, correct?
It seems the 18650 Hound Dog, with its lower voltage requirements is a great candidate for the AA solution.
Tonight I shall assemble the MD6 body and 18650 HD and see what kind of lumens I get. With 4xAA, I should get 6V which is what it's rated for.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
That is correct 18650 Neutral MD3 body on 2AA DURACELL ALKALINES.
Thank you for the link.
my fear was just this: compromising the useful life of the batteries.
