The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

[js]

smflorkey,

Yeah, it's not every day that you run across a thread with an integral in it. LOL! The math would have been a lot better presented as pictures of my handwritten work, with a real integral sign, and fractions that are big horizontal lines with top terms and bottom terms, and I may actually edit this thread and turn the heat conductivity section into that, but at the time, it was easier just to type it all in. Anyway, you're welcome for the detailed explanation(s)!

Katdaddy,

Hey! How are you? Good to see a post from you. As for me and selling used cars, I would suck as a used cars salesman. I even sucked as a Radio Shack salesperson. I can only sell those things which I believe in and which I would (or have) bought and loved myself. And I'm not good at persuasion and manipulation. All I do is present my own view of the situation and why I think a certain item is great, and then let other peoples own good judgement take it from there. I'm more interested in just the appreciation of good things--ANY good things--and quality and care in general--than I am interested in others buying any certain light or monitor or computer or whatever. We here at CPF may all have different favorite lights, but the fact that we might differ on which light is our favorite is far less important than the fact that we have a favorite light in the first place!

Jimmy1970 and leon2245,

I understand that bit about it being "depressing" to read about how great something is that is beyond your budget. It can be that. But, keep in mind that most people here on CPF probably have $500 invested in lights and related gear. It's not a huge amount of money, really. If you got serious about owning an LS20 it wouldn't take you too long to raise the funds for it. In point of fact, I sold my black HA SF A2 with aviatrix ring, as well as two TigerLight packages and a Mag mod in order to finance my LunaSol 20. And it was so, so worth it.

My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

Honest. It does.

wquiles and elmie,

Thanks!

 

[carrot]

My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

Honest. It does.

It's true! I didn't want any lights for 2.5 years after I bought my McLux... besides snagging an E2L or two or three.

 

[jimmy1970]

smflorkey,


Jimmy1970 and leon2245,

I understand that bit about it being "depressing" to read about how great something is that is beyond your budget. It can be that. But, keep in mind that most people here on CPF probably have $500 invested in lights and related gear. It's not a huge amount of money, really. If you got serious about owning an LS20 it wouldn't take you too long to raise the funds for it. In point of fact, I sold my black HA SF A2 with aviatrix ring, as well as two TigerLight packages and a Mag mod in order to finance my LunaSol 20. And it was so, so worth it.

My LunaSol 20 is my workhorse light--BY A COUNTRY MILE! It is my EDC, and it is also my around the house light, and it is also my bedstand light (along with a SF M6 with MN15 LA). Owning a LunaSol 20 means you don't need a lot of lights anyway, and it also means you become a lot less interested in buying more lights.

So . . . really . . . it saves you money.

Honest. It does.

wquiles and elmie,

Thanks!

Oh I wish I was paid in US dollars. At an exchange rate of around 65 cents to the US dollar, I'm folking out around $799 AUS with shipping! I suppose I could sell most of my flashlight stash to fund it but with a young family, 3 kids (2 with health problems etc), the budget sometimes doesn't quite get there - the kids come first of course.

I do appreciate your deep feelings about the LS20 and enjoy your enthusiastic approach to this wonderful technology - keep it up!

James....:thumbsup:

 

[brucec]

My problem with the EX10 isn't the size. I have small hands. What is a problem is getting steady enough pressure on the PD switch that the light doesn't turn off while ramping or end up switching accidentally to a different light level. I realize the Lunasol doesn't ramp; so that shouldn't be an issue. I do like using my index finger on the switch some of the time, and I just can't get enough force to do that with the EX10. The switch just feels stiff to me even though I have cleaned it, and used very thin lube on the O-rings. I have even worked with the light enough to have sore fingers. I probably shouldn't be comparing an EX10's switch to a Lunasol's switch, but after reading Don's forum, there are people there who have similar issues with the Lunasol piston drive as I have with the EX10 PD.

I have a few EX10s and a few McGizmo PDs. In my experience, the McGizmo PD is quite a bit stiffer than the EX10. If you are finding the EX10 pressure to be too high, then I think you might find the LS20 way too high. That's not to say that the McGizmo PD is too tight. I bought some of the low force springs, but I haven't really bothered to put them in yet because the original force after breaking in a bit is just fine with me. I have no problems pushing and holding the piston in with my index finger. And I'm not a super strong guy or anything. To semi-quantify it, for a momentary all-the-way-in push, the LS20 feels about 2-3 times the force of the EX10.

My EX10s pistons are really light of touch, the light is small, machining is superb, brightness is great, runtime is great, and of course Al is buttery smooth to turn vs Ti. So what's wrong about the EX10? There is an inherent weakness in the design of the Nitecore PD. The contact ring is on a spring which goes up and down, but sometimes sticks potentially causing accidental activation. Every week or two you see a new thread like "my EX10 or D10 turned on by itself in my pocket." I use my EX10s in momentary mode only due to this reason. The original McGizmo PD design seems to be the most reliable.

By the way, I find that my most comfortable leather shoes are the ones that had to be worked in for a few days. I feel the same way about the original spring in the McGizmo PD.

 

[BabyDoc]

I have a few EX10s and a few McGizmo PDs. In my experience, the McGizmo PD is quite a bit stiffer than the EX10. If you are finding the EX10 pressure to be too high, then I think you might find the LS20 way too high. That's not to say that the McGizmo PD is too tight. I bought some of the low force springs, but I haven't really bothered to put them in yet because the original force after breaking in a bit is just fine with me. I have no problems pushing and holding the piston in with my index finger. And I'm not a super strong guy or anything. To semi-quantify it, for a momentary all-the-way-in push, the LS20 feels about 2-3 times the force of the EX10.

My EX10s pistons are really light of touch, the light is small, machining is superb, brightness is great, runtime is great, and of course Al is buttery smooth to turn vs Ti. So what's wrong about the EX10? There is an inherent weakness in the design of the Nitecore PD. The contact ring is on a spring which goes up and down, but sometimes sticks potentially causing accidental activation. Every week or two you see a new thread like "my EX10 or D10 turned on by itself in my pocket." I use my EX10s in momentary mode only due to this reason. The original McGizmo PD design seems to be the most reliable.

By the way, I find that my most comfortable leather shoes are the ones that had to be worked in for a few days. I feel the same way about the original spring in the McGizmo PD.

Thanks you for comparing the two lights so well. I do agree about the leather shoes that can comfortably adapt to your feet, unlike vinyl shoes that won't. I just have just one question regarding your experience with the McGizmo PD. Did your finger break-in getting used to the stiff spring, or did the spring break-in and become easier to operate.?

In any case, it sounds like the original LS20 spring is going to be stiffer than the EX10's. So that probably won't work well for me. I will be interested to hear a comparison again, if you should decide to install the lower force springs into the McGizmo. Thanks again.

 

[jefft]

BabyDoc, I think the variation in the Nitecore pistons are fairly wide. My EX10 is like buttah. I have one D10 that is quite stiff, the other one is fine. McGizmo pistons definitely take more effort across the board for all the ones that I have. I don't think the springs get softer, nor do I think your phalangeal musculature builds up (unless you're OCD with this) but the mechanism definitely improves with use. I am assuming that your pedi-pod thumb should be able to handle a busy day activating a LunaSol, although I personally still use a cheap 2XAAA incan light for exams throughout my day. Don't let the piston effort deter you from picking up a LunaSol. You could always sell it if you develop "piston thumb".

 

[brucec]

Thanks you for comparing the two lights so well. I do agree about the leather shoes that can comfortably adapt to your feet, unlike vinyl shoes that won't. I just have just one question regarding your experience with the McGizmo PD. Did your finger break-in getting used to the stiff spring, or did the spring break-in and become easier to operate.?

In any case, it sounds like the original LS20 spring is going to be stiffer than the EX10's. So that probably won't work well for me. I will be interested to hear a comparison again, if you should decide to install the lower force springs into the McGizmo. Thanks again.

To answer your question, I'm not sure if it was my finger or the spring that broke in or something else. I think I read somewhere that Don said it was the piston getting smoother? In any case, the more you use it, the lighter the piston activation and the smoother the twisting action seem. I am comparing to my two samples of EX10s which are really light in activation.

OK, so after your e-mail, I did install the low-force spring. The action is indeed a bit lighter, but its not a huge difference for me. So I put the original one back in because it looks like a higher quality spring. If you can spare the cash, I would recommend just giving the LS20 a try. Yes, the piston is a bit stiff at first, but you don't have a MCU misinterpreting intermittent contact as ramping commands. It doesn't take long for the LS20 action to break in and in the end it is easier to control than the EX10.

 

[The Sun]

GREAT JOB!!!! i agree with everything you said about beamshots, and with my camera taking beamshots with it "unlocked" produces more realistic photo's than with it "locked out." unfortunately, i have locked out the settings due to everyone asking if "the camera was locked out.' the general mindset is that in order to get an accurate comparison of beam characteristics the settings must be locked. maybe this will change some minds . well, even if not i enjoyed it so...kudo's!!!

as far as price goes even if i was dirt poor and needed a light (as a tool) i would buy this, or any other job specific McG light.

currently i have a AL McLuxIII PD, and love it. i have another coming on trade from B/S/T and should recieve it today (i try to buy two of everything i love so i'll never be without, and for reasons mentioned above, lost, stolen, etc. ) however, i hope to soon have the Ti version of the PD along with the light i've been lusting for, for awhile now that you so graciously just reviewed, the LunaSol 20....just as soon as i can get to a coinstar and cash in all my pennies!!!

thanks again for the great wrap-up!!!:twothumbs

 

[fareast]

yellow,

I understand where you're coming from, and it's a totally valid point of view--but it is your point of view, your place--and not mine, or bernie's, or yaesumofo's, or any of a multitude of others who own $400 or $500 EDC's. If you say that we haven't thought of the possibility of losing our EDC's, you'd be wrong. Yaesumofo (and myself) for example both have back-up EDC's. Yaesumofo always has a spare for every light in his EDC arsenal. He has two LunaSol 20's, in point of fact. The simple possibility of losing his main LunaSol 20 has not only occurred to him, but he has in fact planned for it, and the idea has not only occurred to him and is something which he has planned for, but, it has not deterred him from EDC'ing a LunaSol 20. Not at all.

I totally disagree with you that the LunaSol 20 is a "showpiece" merely because it is expensive. YOU and people of like mindset are the very reason for my section on "BUYING ADVICE" at the end of the thread. I would strongly advise you not to buy a light as expensive as a LunaSol 20 or SureFire Titan. If you can't get beyond the price as it relates to the possibility of loss, then do yourself a favor and EDC a less expensive light.

Obviously, you have given yourself (and have followed) this exact advice. And it's fine.

BUT IT SAYS NOTHING TRUE IN GENERAL ABOUT THE LUNASOL 20 OR EDC's.

I intentionally and specifically left out *price* in my "evaluation". Everyone's idea of how to evaluate a cost to benefit ratio is different. Sometimes VERY different. So I leave it to each individual to use the information they can find (such as a thread like this) and factor in cost and chance of loss and everything else they want, and then decide to buy or not to buy.

It's the same argument that appears all over the place. Carry a Bic pen because, hey, you might lose a more expensive one, and then where would you be? A $10 or $50 or $300 writing implement is a joke, a showpiece.

And yet, there are many who use an expensive fountain pen day in and day out, and after maybe years (or maybe longer or shorter) when they lose the thing, they buy another one just as expensive.

I EDC a $400 Chris Reeve Large Sebenza and a $500 McGizmo LunaSol 20 and I have considered that I might lose one or both of them at some point, AND IT WILL BE TOTALLY WORTH IT EVEN IF I DO. (more than worth it) The cost of replacement must be weighed against the daily joy and pleasure of having such wonderful tools at your disposal, day in and day out. For me this more than balances out the possibility of loss and the expense of replacement.

So, I see where you are coming from yellow, and I respect it, but there are other places that one can live and be, psychologically, and you might want to consider this when making statements like "it is still a showpiece like Titan".

As for lending your LunaSol 20 to someone, that's something you wouldn't lightly do--like to a stranger or someone you knew wouldn't respect it. And if you need an EDC that you can lend to the-clueless and inappreciative, then, fine, don't buy a LunaSol 20. But the thought of what I will do when someone asks to borrow my light doesn't give me a moments unrest, nor does it prevent me from carrying my LunaSol 20. I simply don't lend my light out to people I don't trust. And this situation rarely comes up in any case.

What you are saying about the fountain pens is so true!!! I have bought fountain pens worth several hundreds of dollars per pen and I have used them for many years. And! I have lost just as many fountain pens worth several hundreds of dollars. And still I think it was worth it. I will keep buying and using them. Some things you use every day, you just cannot put a price on it. Of course it has to fit your bill, but if it does, I wouldn't want to do it any other way. The same is valid for the McGizmo's I believe. Even worse, considering the amount of work each of McGizmo's creations take, I consider the price a fair one.

I for one, will keep an eye on his creations as soon as I buy my next flashlight !

 

[BabyDoc]

. Yes, the piston is a bit stiff at first, but you don't have a MCU misinterpreting intermittent contact as ramping commands. It doesn't take long for the LS20 action to break in and in the end it is easier to control than the EX10.

Thank you so much! This is what I wanted to hear.:twothumbs

 

[Kiessling]

If you're weak ... it flickers. It doesn't enter the menu or strobe

 

[js]

BabyDoc,

Been thinking about things a bit more, and wanted to add some more to what I've already said.

First of all, if, hypothetically speaking, you bought an LS20 and the UI just never got good for you, then the analogy would indeed by like the one you mentioned! So, I'm sorry for not allowing for that. There are DEFINITELY people out there who feel this way about the PD action, and I in no way want to invalidate their experience. Some do indeed find the PD to be just "not for them".

So, sorry if I came across as obnoxious there!

Moving on, I'd say that the muscles I was talking about developing were the ones that allow you to hold high on constant on for longer than a few seconds. At first, this was an issue. Holding high on constant on for more than a few seconds wasn't easy. However, at this point, I could hold high on constant on for half a minute easy without a problem.

So, this musculature development is what I was thinking of.

In terms of how easy it is to push it on high for a second or less, I don't think that force has changed for me, nor do I think those thumb muscles of mine have gotten noticeably stronger or anything. Not by much anyway.

The spring itself I do not think has broken in much--if by that we mean gotten easier to deform. It's about the same in my estimation.

The contact areas of the piston with the inner wall of the light body, however, have gotten very smooth vs. what they were new. New, there was no issue or anything, but the action now is much smoother. I liked it new, but I like it even better now. There were machining ring marks (very very fine, but still there) that have been smoothed out, is my guess.

Anyway, the thing about the PD action is that if your usage pattern is to need high constant on for a minute or so (or less), then off again, and then the same high constant on again, and this happens many times a day--like with a detailed examination you might need to perform often--then a clickie switch is going to be preferable, in my estimation. When I need constant on high for any length of time, I twist the head, but I don't often need this. I mean I might need it half a dozen times a day tops, but almost never more than that. Most of the time, I use momentary everything, or constant on low and momentary high. It's certainly quick enough to twist the head to constant on high, but it's nowhere near as facile as clicking a clickie switch!

The PD action won't be for everyone. I would never argue that! And specifically in your case I feel pretty certain that it's not for you. So, keep that in mind in you buying considerations. But for most people, I feel pretty certain that the stock PD action will present no difficulties or discomfort, once the initial period of getting used to it has passed. That point I still maintain.

All I was saying about adapting to your tool is that it's not unreasonable to expect a little bit of adapting to be required before you feel completely comfortable with it. After that, of course, it is indeed unreasonable to keep using a UI that for you is uncomfortable.

No argument from me there. Totally agree.

 

[js]

jimmy1970,

Indeed. Children and mortgages and tires for your car and a new roof on your house and food for your family--these things come first--and second--and third. NO ONE should spend non-expendable income on a high end flashlight in my personal opinion. Plus, if your exchange rate makes the lights even more expensive, well then that makes it that much worse, of course.

I totally get it. Sorry if my previous post was out of line!

 

[DucS2R]

Yeah, I once made the mistake of going into debt to buy toys (if you can call a motorcycle, sportscars and expensive watches toys) and that is a mistake I will not repeat. I have always enjoyed high quality hand made goods and tools, and have nice fountain pens, CRK knives, watches, guns and now flashlights. I splurged last year and bought an Aeon, my favorite key ring light.

But I always admired the McGizmos but just never wanted to put that much into a light. Well, I am lucky enough to still have a good job, the kids are almost out of college, and I read your wonderful review (and I am an engineer and understood and appreciated your math!). So Don mailed me a LunaSol 20 this morning and I sent him the payment, so in a few days I will take a big step up in my flashlight collection.

And I will use it. My EDC Sebenza's are all scratched and have been resharpened by me many times. I don't believe in safe queens, life is too short.

In any case, great review!

T.

 

[carrot]

And I will use it. My EDC Sebenza's are all scratched and have been resharpened by me many times. I don't believe in safe queens, life is too short.

+1 absolutely. I don't believe in putting things away to enjoy later (more like never).

 

[StandardBattery]

Great Post! I admit though I have not read all the text yet, need time when I can absorb it properly. We're definitely going to be seeing a lot more discussion on Tint/Color Temp and CRI. It's nice to see LEDS finally climbing the CRI mountain.

I was totally shocked though with the pics. From all the previous pics I had seen I thought for sure I was going to be loving the LunaSol images, but I came away thinking the PD-S was better. I'm definitely going to have to looks at all the pics again on a couple of different monitors. I really expected more of a different on the color chart as well.

Thanks for the Great Reference, time for some serious reading.

 

[cy]

WOW... what a review!!!

makes me appreciate my ti PD-S even more. been wanting a LunaSol 20 for a bit anyways. suspect even I end up purchasing a LunaSol, would still like my ti PD-S better. still running original luxeon in ti PS-S mizer. spare heatsink/reflector/P4 been at the ready for sometime.

 

[js]

StandardBattery,

If tint is an issue for you, it might mean that you want the Ti-PD or L1 over the LS20. As for CRI, check out my thread on the SunDrop high CRI LED light

And definitely check out the pics on another monitor. That could change things a lot. Still, the Ti-PD-S has a pretty light / tint to its beam than the LunaSol 20--no question.

cy,

Thanks!

As for LS20 vs. Ti-PD, well, you never know. You might switch, or you might not. If I were a betting man, I'd say "not", but, like I said, you never know.

BTW, I have some Pilas and a proto-type for you.

 

[js]

GREAT JOB!!!! i agree with everything you said about beamshots, and with my camera taking beamshots with it "unlocked" produces more realistic photo's than with it "locked out." unfortunately, i have locked out the settings due to everyone asking if "the camera was locked out.' the general mindset is that in order to get an accurate comparison of beam characteristics the settings must be locked. maybe this will change some minds . well, even if not i enjoyed it so...kudo's!!!

. . .

The Sun,

It won't change anyone's mind. Trust me. But it could certainly start a big heated argument, if nothing else. LOL! But thanks for your appreciation and kinds words, in any case.

 

[The Sun]

The Sun,

It won't change anyone's mind. Trust me. But it could certainly start a big heated argument, if nothing else. LOL! But thanks for your appreciation and kinds words, in any case.

hey i'm right there with ya, from now on i'm posting my roundup pic's the "rebel" way!!! the heat from hot breath has never stopped me before LOL