Hey get yourself and anyone else that were there checked out with a doctor ASAP! A house full of fumes is a very serious.
TK Monster Explosion
- Thread starter dcaprilia
- Start date
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Hey get yourself and anyone else that were there checked out with a doctor ASAP! A house full of fumes is a very serious.
DCaprilia, I am very glad to hear you escaped with minor injuries only. It looks like you have a hefty repair bill but at least you walked away from what could have been much, much worse. Very scary stuff indeed.
Didn't I see something on here about getting yourself checked out by the medics if you breathed smoke from a lithium fire?
Please post any more pics / info when you know more so we can all learn a lesson from your near-miss.
Best wishes,
Olef
Didn't I see something on here about getting yourself checked out by the medics if you breathed smoke from a lithium fire?
Please post any more pics / info when you know more so we can all learn a lesson from your near-miss.
Best wishes,
Olef
Magic Matt
Enlightened
Sounds like a recipe for a
I'm betting the cells that had no charge were bad cells, and that when you looked at them later they were not charged at all - possibly they confused the charger?
If the good cells started to charge the bad ones, then that really would have gone
Where's those battery experts hiding...
Glad you aren't too badly hurt, but please please get yourself checked out. The fumes from that explosion are no joke.
hron61
Flashlight Enthusiast
yikes.
how did po get 8x18650 batts in the holder? just checked my tk-40 and they are way too long.
a good reason why if your not familiar with a new product to READ THE MANUAL. that was a pipe bomb for sure. i just got a whole new respect for the li-ion batts. its a fun hobby, but IT'S NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE! please take the time and read through the battery section again.
glad you made it through it without too much body damage.
please keep us informed on your results.
orbspeed1
Newly Enlightened
Glad your ok. would like to see pics odf the light if you find it.
hron61 Have another read and see what torch he's got !!! I know I had to read twice incase it was a TK30.
Although I agree always read the instuctions .
hron61 Have another read and see what torch he's got !!! I know I had to read twice incase it was a TK30.
Although I agree always read the instuctions .
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yikes.
how did po get 8x18650 batts in the holder? just checked my tk-40 and they are way too long.
a good reason why if your not familiar with a new product to READ THE MANUAL. that was a pipe bomb for sure. i just got a whole new respect for the li-ion batts. its a fun hobby, but IT'S NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE! please take the time and read through the battery section again.
glad you made it through it without too much body damage.
please keep us informed on your results.
This isn't the TK40... It's another light, called the TK Monster...
WTF, dcaprilia this terrifying, I am glad you are ok man.
When the cells are dead, if you put back on charger, the charger light may turn green. It just mean it can't charge anymore, doesn't mean it's good cell, giving a false sense that it is full.
Always measure the voltage when it's off the charger before use!
If charger shows green light & the cell comes out isn't at least > 4.1 V, then cell need to be tossed.
8x18650 sounds crazy to me, a hand granade. The good cells could be reverse charging the dead cells & cause disaster.
If all 8 cells measured 4.2v when you put them in the light, then its possible a short somewhere.
I have personally shorted DX C sized Li-ions in two separate cases, the unprotected type, in a 2x C-Lion set-up. In both cases, the cell went really hot after short & killed itself, giving no voltage, so the light shut-off immediately & I immediately opened the light, the cell is so unbelivably hot that I could imagine it blow up if continue to stay in the flashlight, especially in a 8 cell set-up, where the 7 live cells start to reverse charging the dead one due to short.
When the cells are dead, if you put back on charger, the charger light may turn green. It just mean it can't charge anymore, doesn't mean it's good cell, giving a false sense that it is full.
Always measure the voltage when it's off the charger before use!
If charger shows green light & the cell comes out isn't at least > 4.1 V, then cell need to be tossed.
8x18650 sounds crazy to me, a hand granade. The good cells could be reverse charging the dead cells & cause disaster.
If all 8 cells measured 4.2v when you put them in the light, then its possible a short somewhere.
I have personally shorted DX C sized Li-ions in two separate cases, the unprotected type, in a 2x C-Lion set-up. In both cases, the cell went really hot after short & killed itself, giving no voltage, so the light shut-off immediately & I immediately opened the light, the cell is so unbelivably hot that I could imagine it blow up if continue to stay in the flashlight, especially in a 8 cell set-up, where the 7 live cells start to reverse charging the dead one due to short.
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This is the TK Monster, the light that is being discussed. The TK is shown here next to an FM Magalennium.
I noticed this interesting tidbit from a CPF search https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230716
05-04-2009, 01:53 AM
alantch
Flashaholic*
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: GMT +8
Posts: 524
Re: 15K lumen TK Monster owners thread
One thing to watch out for is the proximity of the '+' screw to the '-' plate at the '-' end of the battery holder. I've accidentally shorted them in the course of screwing the tailcap on. I've since found a small plastic cap to cover the '+' screw and it's now ok. Other then this, it's AWESOME. Good for building up your arm muscles too!
Flashaholic*
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: GMT +8
Posts: 524
One thing to watch out for is the proximity of the '+' screw to the '-' plate at the '-' end of the battery holder. I've accidentally shorted them in the course of screwing the tailcap on. I've since found a small plastic cap to cover the '+' screw and it's now ok. Other then this, it's AWESOME. Good for building up your arm muscles too!
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kodama
Newly Enlightened
WOW! glad you dropped the light! It truly is like a pipe bomb with no emergency venting if internal pressure builds up. Wonder if people are going to start installing burst disks on their lights like they have on any pressurized tanks.
matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
Glad you are okay. Personally I don't think 8x 18650's in one light is a good idea. If you need that much power it would be best to try using NiMh or some chemistry that won't
I'm going to say this was an accident waiting to happen. I may get flak from the designers but really - when have you ever seen that many rechargeable Li-Ions in one production flashlight? And while you might see almost that many in a laptop computer they have well controlled charging systems and temp. sensors and even then once in a while one goes I know custom builders may like to push the limits but there should be some safety considerations when using that much power in Li-Ion.
I'm going to say this was an accident waiting to happen. I may get flak from the designers but really - when have you ever seen that many rechargeable Li-Ions in one production flashlight? And while you might see almost that many in a laptop computer they have well controlled charging systems and temp. sensors and even then once in a while one goes
I know custom builders may like to push the limits but there should be some safety considerations when using that much power in Li-Ion.
Glad you are okay. Personally I don't think 8x 18650's in one light is a good idea. If you need that much power it would be best to try using NiMh or some chemistry that won't
I'm going to say this was an accident waiting to happen. I may get flak from the designers but really - when have you ever seen that many rechargeable Li-Ions in one production flashlight? And while you might see almost that many in a laptop computer they have well controlled charging systems and temp. sensors and even then once in a while one goes
Well.. I agree. The S90 light uses a batterypack, for just the same reason
Just one reminder when talking about the danger of Lithium Batteries:
Look at a 18650 cell. Notice those holes at the nose? They are there for a reason.
Putting several of them with a large filling factor (i.e. no much room for gases to expand) in a larger diameter body (less rupture strength) just makes this into a pipebomb.
If you done believe how much the containment really amounts to then just take a PET coke bottle and put some dry ice or LN2 in it and then wait...
At a certain point, burst disks really would make sense in a flashlight design...
Look at a 18650 cell. Notice those holes at the nose? They are there for a reason.
Putting several of them with a large filling factor (i.e. no much room for gases to expand) in a larger diameter body (less rupture strength) just makes this into a pipebomb.
If you done believe how much the containment really amounts to then just take a PET coke bottle and put some dry ice or LN2 in it and then wait...
At a certain point, burst disks really would make sense in a flashlight design...
kramer5150
Flashaholic
Glad you are okay. Personally I don't think 8x 18650's in one light is a good idea. If you need that much power it would be best to try using NiMh or some chemistry that won't
I'm going to say this was an accident waiting to happen. I may get flak from the designers but really - when have you ever seen that many rechargeable Li-Ions in one production flashlight? And while you might see almost that many in a laptop computer they have well controlled charging systems and temp. sensors and even then once in a while one goes
The OP clearly ignored/disregarded the warning signs though.... A 0-V reading on any 18650 should NEVER be used. I am guessing the bad cells were damaged beyond recovery, and the act of using them in series in a high current draw application forced the dead cells into cell reversal.
Its no different than the reported cases of Surefire / primary CR123 explosions. Same scenario.... bad cells mixed with good cells + high current draw applications (typically incan). To the best of my knowledge, there have been no reported CPF incidents of explosion when using known good cells. (someone please correct me).
There still is the possibility of an internal short, defective cell carrier, or insufficient cell heatshrink.
I love stuff like this... its like CPF CSI investigation.
+1 for burst disk or pressure release valve design.
OP.... got any pics of the light?...
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Illum
Flashaholic
jeezez...last time I saw that much glass was an acetylene explosion....
I am glad you made it out with just some minor bleeding, judging from the glass it must've been quite a shockwave
I am glad you made it out with just some minor bleeding, judging from the glass it must've been quite a shockwave
okaaayy.
I read up on this light.
You are pulling about 10C of discharge on those cells on high if i understand this correctly. (5min runtime on high)
You even have to wait a while on low and medium for the batteries to sag enough not to blow the 250W bulb on high.
This plainly means that the whole light is a more or less controlled short connection for a big battery pack.
I would not advice anybody to sell a light with this kind of usage parameters and no protection against venting cells. While for a normal light burst discs or vents might be a good idea, for a light driving its cell THAT hard its the absolute minimum requirement. Could make a rude awakening and stuff like "ciminal neglect".
(and any user should not even think on using batteries in such an application until its clear that they are perfectly OK).
I read up on this light.
You are pulling about 10C of discharge on those cells on high if i understand this correctly. (5min runtime on high)
You even have to wait a while on low and medium for the batteries to sag enough not to blow the 250W bulb on high.
This plainly means that the whole light is a more or less controlled short connection for a big battery pack.
I would not advice anybody to sell a light with this kind of usage parameters and no protection against venting cells. While for a normal light burst discs or vents might be a good idea, for a light driving its cell THAT hard its the absolute minimum requirement. Could make a rude awakening and stuff like "ciminal neglect".
(and any user should not even think on using batteries in such an application until its clear that they are perfectly OK).
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space-time
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2010
- Messages
- 70
For some interesting reading Google "balancing lithium cells" and read through the first 3 links that come up. I've seen comments posted that more than 4-5 Lithium cells in series need some form of active balancing. I don't know one way or the other, but from those links it looks like there might be something there. :thinking:
High end super powerful lights are like hot rods. They are only dangerous if you don't know anything about hot rods.
I wouldn't come to the conclusion that hot rods shouldn't be made or used, only that they are well made and that the end user is aware of the safety considerations.
I would suggest something like this, since just the fact that people have 500 bucks to spend on a hot rod hot wire doesn't necessarily mean they know about all the safety factors ( I didn't, at least as far as lithium cells goes. I know that NiMh can get hot and fail, but, explode with this much force? Yikes! ).
In this case with a power solution of so much voltage I think maybe it should be mandatory that all 8 cells be dedicated to the light from their source all the way to the user, and should be matched in condition when recieved.
Then there should be a method offered for power pack maintenance and charging that insures the cells will be charged and conditioned as a unit. (at least in instructions if not accessories), and a strong warning provided before sale of the light to do so and to trash any cells not performing the same within tolerances of the other cells, (like a voltage check (or better yet a smart battery checker test) after a 2 hour rest from charger every few times). I'm not wired to blame a producer for downstream damage caused by ignorance or misunderstanding the technology, but to insure that things dlike this don't occur it might be worthwhile to offer some warnings and literature to explain the potential and waive liability for misuse.
For this light a good solution would be this;
http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcharger10afor296vli-ionpolymerrechargeablebatterypack.aspx
With all cells starting in the same condition and used in this fine light I think you could be assured of a safe long life, I'd visually inspect each cell each time to make sure the shrink wrap is intact etc. and do occasional cell testing every few times just to make sure they are behaving cohesivly.
That's my 2 cents.
I wouldn't come to the conclusion that hot rods shouldn't be made or used, only that they are well made and that the end user is aware of the safety considerations.
I would suggest something like this, since just the fact that people have 500 bucks to spend on a hot rod hot wire doesn't necessarily mean they know about all the safety factors ( I didn't, at least as far as lithium cells goes. I know that NiMh can get hot and fail, but, explode with this much force? Yikes! ).
In this case with a power solution of so much voltage I think maybe it should be mandatory that all 8 cells be dedicated to the light from their source all the way to the user, and should be matched in condition when recieved.
Then there should be a method offered for power pack maintenance and charging that insures the cells will be charged and conditioned as a unit. (at least in instructions if not accessories), and a strong warning provided before sale of the light to do so and to trash any cells not performing the same within tolerances of the other cells, (like a voltage check (or better yet a smart battery checker test) after a 2 hour rest from charger every few times). I'm not wired to blame a producer for downstream damage caused by ignorance or misunderstanding the technology, but to insure that things dlike this don't occur it might be worthwhile to offer some warnings and literature to explain the potential and waive liability for misuse.
For this light a good solution would be this;
http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcharger10afor296vli-ionpolymerrechargeablebatterypack.aspx
With all cells starting in the same condition and used in this fine light I think you could be assured of a safe long life, I'd visually inspect each cell each time to make sure the shrink wrap is intact etc. and do occasional cell testing every few times just to make sure they are behaving cohesivly.
That's my 2 cents.
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hron61
Flashlight Enthusiast
my bad. i can see why its called the monster. thats one big light bomb. man, you were extremely lucky. that thing uses 8x18650'S? wow. :thinking:
dcaprilia, I think one of the most tragic things about this, now that we know you are OK, is the loss of funds both from the sale and from damage to your home.
I don't think it's necessarily logical to assume that you would be re-embursed for this although who knows, I don't want to assume or step on any toes.
I don't know if you are wealthy or just a working slob like me, but either way that's alot of damage and expense for anyone to bear..
I would like to contribute $20 to the cause of re-building your patio, and maybe a trend would start. PM me your Paypal, or post it here, and let the donations begin.
I don't think it's necessarily logical to assume that you would be re-embursed for this although who knows, I don't want to assume or step on any toes.
I don't know if you are wealthy or just a working slob like me, but either way that's alot of damage and expense for anyone to bear..
I would like to contribute $20 to the cause of re-building your patio, and maybe a trend would start. PM me your Paypal, or post it here, and let the donations begin.
