Really tough products are a niche category. If you want a tough phone you get a Samsung B2100, if you want a REALLY tough phone you get Sonim XP3 or something, but it's 3 times more money. Same with flashlights, there are lots of elegant ones, lots of tough ones, and some really really tough, but they are produced in small quantities, use better products and hence more expensive. Chinese manufactured lights are aiming for the largest market, if 90% of people wanted HDS type lights, be sure that Chinese lights would be all like that. They can make anything they want, it's just business.
toughen up chinese flashlights!
- Thread starter Edi
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My wish for Chinese manufacturers would be to improve their "clicky" switches. I have encountered intermittent operation and outright failure with a variety of flashlights, including Romisen (low cost) and 4Sevens (not low cost).
A clicky switch can fail in several ways. There is the actual switch mechanism (I count one failure so far). There is also the electrical contact between the switch and the flashlight body. I see sloppy machining and hence unreliable electrical contact.
A clicky switch can fail in several ways. There is the actual switch mechanism (I count one failure so far). There is also the electrical contact between the switch and the flashlight body. I see sloppy machining and hence unreliable electrical contact.
Yeah, swapping in McClickies is one of the things we do on the Surefires who's tail switches fail, especially if we want better current flow/power. If it helps the broken SF lights, it would probably help the other tail switch lights too.
skyfire
Flashlight Enthusiast
i couldnt agree more. i feel many of the chinese brands are too fancy. too many modes, switches, and bezel twisting. any man made product is guaranteed to fail, but having less components and parts does help reduce those odds.
i also feel too many of them are being driven too hard and are unsafe for uneducated users, but they are targeting the enthusiast market. i mean who else would pay over $40+ for a light?
i dont think the toughness of a light has as much to do with the thickness at which it was machined, but more to do with its design and tolerances.
with regards to your broken lens, its in the design, the SC600 has a larger lens than a HDS, thus raising the odds of it getting hit. it also doesnt help that it doesnt have much of a bezel to protect the lens.
i actually wished chinese brands would concentrate more on simpler 1 or 2 mode lights, and runtimes over lumens.
if any glass falls on a sharp enough point, it will shatter - no questions asked. Its just the mechanics of it. Glass it HARD and hard means brittle. If you want to significantly reduce damage, put on a translucent lens protector, a SMALL layer will blunt the tip of the point coming in enough to usually stop damage from occuring. HUGELY noticeable on iphones - with and without a thin screen protector.
ElectronGuru
Flashaholic
Chinese brands compete on paper first, reputation second. HDS succeeds by reputation alone. On paper, its not only more money, but many times less performance (as you've noted), in a package much larger than other 123 lights. A Chinese brand with the same specs and even a quarter price, would have a hard time lasting long enough to sell enough lights to compete with reputation alone.
Not sure I understand this point. The McClicky Kit was developed because the standard tail cap on so many models was twisty only. The kit was half the price of the [purchase separately] Z59 factory clicky option. These two options competed on paper. Only now that they've been around for years, is there enough reputation that McClicky Kits are desirable on their own.
If you want your Lights tougher, give em a nice bubble wrap holster
All kidding aside, it doesn't matter where it's from, I'd like to see more sturdy lights on the market. I think the thread title is a poor choice of words as it doesn't matter where it's built to most, and it's offensive to others.
Ask more builders to step up there durability, pot the electronics and make them emp proof
Can you tell me how my thread title is offensive? It's so sad in this day and age that you can't label where something comes from because of people like you. That's what moderators are for, to control offensive material.
Like someone said in this thread, everyone of us has different requirements in flashlights. To those of you who push pens I'm sure you don't need a tough light. I'm a foreman for a construction company and I inspect dark work areas sometimes. If I drop my torch one in a thousand times I take it out of pocket, it is falling on concrete everytime and I want to know it will survive, that's all. I bet soldiers and police officers even more so.
I'll say it again, I think all the Chinese manufacturers follow what each other are doing so closely that sometimes it just a preference of something minor. Why not change it up and offer something the competition isn't? I know they're great torches, if I knew they were the toughest and most durable I will pay the big $.
My Nitecore IFE2, for some reason, has been a light that I just seem to mishandle more often then all of my other lights. It's been dropped multiple times onto concrete floors. Other then a few nicks, the lens has never cracked, and it still functions properly. All China made lights are not fragile. Just as all U.S. made lights are not indestructable. Take a look at the ArmyTek predator video to get a hint at how "tough" lights made in China can be.
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My TrustFire X6 seems about a tough as you can get. Real thick al in the body, double O-ringed, 3mm glass lens. Can never tell about the electronics without taking them apart of course.
lightwater
Newly Enlightened
Hard Anodising!?
I was in the aluminium industry for 17 years. If you have ever seen some quality hard anodising you will be surprised just how tough it is.
What the flashlight manufactures call HA is at the very low end of the scale, at best! Top quality HA done on 6061 at very low temperatures is as tough as nails & has a craze pattern which gets more noticeable at the tougher end of the HA scale.
I was in the aluminium industry for 17 years. If you have ever seen some quality hard anodising you will be surprised just how tough it is.
What the flashlight manufactures call HA is at the very low end of the scale, at best! Top quality HA done on 6061 at very low temperatures is as tough as nails & has a craze pattern which gets more noticeable at the tougher end of the HA scale.
jimmy1970
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting point. Most of my 'HA' black chinese lights have lost a percentage of their anodizing. I have found that simply dropping the light on a hard surface will deform the aluminium and chip the anno. My HDS on the other hand has been dropped a few times and has lost no anno. The resulting dents are also surprisingly minor. I agree there must be some pretty dramatic variations in the quality of HA coatings out there.
James....
James....
CarpentryHero
Flashlight Enthusiast
My statement saying some find it offensive is in that its a blanket statement about lights from china, when it doesn't need to be. I don't want just Chinese lights to step there game up, I'd like to see the world wide flashlight market step there game up to compete with the durability of HDS, Elzetta and Surefire. Don't you?
HighlanderNorth
Flashlight Enthusiast
I agree with what others have posted, in that I think its the manufacturers like Streamlight, Surefire and Elzetta that need to get with the program. I bought a Sc600, and I'm surprised that the lens broke on your's(but not all that surprised). Its lens is pretty close to the end of the bezel, and now that I tap on it with my fingernail, it does seem a little weak maybe. But I dont think the Zebralight SC600 is the best "Ambassador" light to represent the toughness and overall quality of top end Chinese flashlights. Its way overrated IMO. Its not a bad light, its just not the end-all, best thing since sex that its been made out to be.
There are many really tough Chinese lights out there, and a few that I own are the Eagletac G25C2, the Jetbeam BC10, and the iTp A6, which is tough aside from its slightly weak battery carrier for its 6-AA batteries. I'm waiting on 2 Eagletac Titanium D25's(D25A and D25C) which should also be really tough.
But I was looking at Elzetta lights, and I think its a bit weak that they, Surefire, and Streamlight sell 1-18650 lights that only put out 200L or so. Some of the SF lights are only anodized to type II. The Lawman, made by SF costs an astounding $400+ for a 700L light! Some are plastic(polymer)...
Granted they are tough, but they should be, as much money as they cost! They also should be up to date with the technology, but for the most part they arent.
I'd rather buy a US made light, but until new US companies come out, or until the current lot of US companies stop price gouging while underachieving, I wont be buying them.......
The HDS lights are the exception, and I will buy one eventually, once they get on track with orders.
There are many really tough Chinese lights out there, and a few that I own are the Eagletac G25C2, the Jetbeam BC10, and the iTp A6, which is tough aside from its slightly weak battery carrier for its 6-AA batteries. I'm waiting on 2 Eagletac Titanium D25's(D25A and D25C) which should also be really tough.
But I was looking at Elzetta lights, and I think its a bit weak that they, Surefire, and Streamlight sell 1-18650 lights that only put out 200L or so. Some of the SF lights are only anodized to type II. The Lawman, made by SF costs an astounding $400+ for a 700L light! Some are plastic(polymer)...
Granted they are tough, but they should be, as much money as they cost! They also should be up to date with the technology, but for the most part they arent.
I'd rather buy a US made light, but until new US companies come out, or until the current lot of US companies stop price gouging while underachieving, I wont be buying them.......
The HDS lights are the exception, and I will buy one eventually, once they get on track with orders.
Zebra Light is an American company, not Chinese. It's entirely up to the company as to where they have the product made and to what specifications. A lot of high end brands are having products made to very high tolerances in China now.
When someone disagrees with you, you can't just bully them into seeing your point of view. I agree with CarpentyHero, the thread title is somewhat racist.
jimmy1970
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've had 3 Zebralight SC600s - One was faulty out of the box, the 2nd one failed within 2 months of ownership, and the 3rd one was sold off before it went bad. I won't touch another!!
I don't care if it's a US company, I also don't care where their lights are made. My old Fenix TK10 has outlasted all my other lights and has been perfectly reliable - and it's a chinese light.
Some companies make reliable lights, some companies only make some reliable models with others having problems.
Call me cynical but no brand of torches out there can boast 100% reliability. My dad's newish Surefire E1B has a dead tailcap, but his old Fenix L2DQ5 bought in 2008 is running perfectly!!
It's funny, I have never had so much trouble with my torches in the past until I got involved with CPF and all these fancy new lights. My old Maglites never gave me any of this grief.
I think a lot of manufacturers have to improve their game. They make all these boasts about their products. IMHO, they spend a fortune on R&D to continually produce new models and not enough money putting real quality into their products. I would prefer manufacturers to produce half of the number of new releases but to double the quality!!
The only manufacturer I've personally had a spotless long term reliability record with is Malkoff Devices - now that's a guy who knows how to ignore all the garbage and just make a quality product that works.
I prefer to support Gene Malkoff and other small operations like the Wright brothers - now these guys get it! Some of us at CPF want a light we can keep! We don't all want to sell off a perfectly good light that has proven itself reliable just because brand X has brought out a new model with an extra 10 lumens and an extra flash mode.
James.....
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HighlanderNorth
Flashlight Enthusiast
I agree that there is a big difference in the quality of anodizing from one product to another, even though they all claim its type III, but I worked in a machine shop for a few years, machining steel and aluminum, and I can tell you that aluminum is MUCH softer than steel. Some of the aluminum alloys are tougher, like 7000 series, but if you take just about any aluminum flashlight with hard anodizing and slam it against concrete or asphalt, and it hits on the edge of the bezel, its going to leave at least a little ding on that spot. The anodizing on my Jetbeam light seems to be great, but I have dropped it hard a few times against asphalt/concrete, right on the corner of the bezel, and it causes a small ding in the metal and a small ding in the anodizing. If the aluminum underneath the anodizing was as hard as tungsten, then maybe the anodizing wouldnt come off in that small spot. But if the substrate that you apply a protective coating to tends to deform when it hits a hard surface due to its softness, then that is definitely going to affect the protective coating as well.
I am disappointed in the anodizing on the Zebralight SC600, which is apparently the same on most other Zebralight models. It seems not only to be weak, but also very thin. I had only opened mine 2 minutes earlier when I attached the pocket clip, and spun it around about 90 degrees, and it immediately scratched the anodizing everywhere it had contacted, all the way to the metal! My BC-10 has been in my pocket, with my keys for 6 months every day, and its pocket clip has been spun around hundreds of times, but has never scratched the anodizing to the metal....
