Updating 7" round sealed beam headlights

[svMike]

That Z sounds like a fun car. Mine was white with dealer installed A/C. Sure miss it. The 240Z has very small frontal area, not much space to mount auxiliary lights. JW Speaker makes a very expensive LED fog that is PAR36 size. Bosch Compact 100 driving or fog lights are a little bigger than that, but not much.
Even if you find compact and powerful aux light to mount, your only available location is too low for driving lights. For that reason, I'm going to vote for headlights with as much long range function as possible.

Yep, the Z is a fun car. Even up on jackstands, as mine is, its a whole lot of fun. Except for the rust.
I looked at the airdam I am planning to install and I don't see how it would look right, so I think that is out the window.

 

[svMike]

The spread of light is very wide, similar to the Cibie Z-Beams but the color is odd and the LEDs themselves draw a pair of "X" patterns off in the distance. Some people don't mind them (me) but some people get target-fixated on them.
Link to page in test

I think the JW Speakers would work better for your application ----- but, for actual performance at speed, I'd want the Hella 90mm. That's just me talkin...

I had a '77 Z btw. Loved that car.

Your headlight shootout was awesome. Thank you! They've gone a long way to convince me that LEDs need a bit more time to bake.

The JW Speaker 8700/Evolution sounded looked good on paper. This shot of the foreground, isn't very good.

What are Cibie Z-Beams? Are these headlights similar to the Cibie H4 everyone has mentioned here?

The Hella 90mm for performance and Cibie H4 for price seems to be where I am.

The engine that was in my 240Z is an L28 from '77 280Z, but fitted with re-jetted SU carbs from the old L24.

 

[svMike]

That depends on whether and how you upgrade the headlamp system wiring (relays, etc.)

Complete re-wire of the car: new wiring, appropriate sized fuses and relays. I don't know exactly what since I don't yet know the components that I'll be using.

You can, but what makes you say you "should"?

I read that HB2/9003 are better focused than H4, so it seems to me that that's what I should use.

Yes, those are all good regulation-wattage bulbs (60/55w nominal at 12v). Of those, the Philips Xtreme Vision is the top pick, followed by the Xtreme Power.

Thanks, will look for pricing.

Another H4 lamp you might want to consider is the difficult-to-get Koito item. Koito was the original-equipment supplier to Nissan (both for replaceable-bulb headlamps in markets where those were used, and for sealed-beam headlamps in markets where those were used), and the Koito H4 7" lamp is an excellent performer. I would rank its beam focus above the Cibie.

I'll have to look into that. Are those difficult to get because they are no longer produced? What should I expect to pay in USD?

 

[-Virgil-]

I read that HB2/9003 are better focused than H4

That's an oversimplification of the case. An HB2/9003 bulb is not necessarily better than an H4.

The Koito lamps are still being made, but it's difficult to find them. Expect to pay about $145/ea or so. They have a bulb shield (which the Cibies lack), which means less upward stray light causing backscatter in fog, snow, or rain. There are other major-brand H4 lamps with bulb shields (Hella, Bosch) but their optics are very inefficient and their performance is poor as a result.

 

[TJJP77]

What are Cibie Z-Beams? Are these headlights similar to the Cibie H4 everyone has mentioned here?

Cibie Z-beams were popular and readily available in the 80's but have been long discontinued. They have the typical sharp cutoff of an ECE lamp, but the kickup to the right (on a US lamp anyway) was more of a "step" than a "slash" like the current Cibies. I'm not sure how different the rest of the beam looks, but high res pictures of the two lenses don't look much different except in the area that created the different kickup shapes. Still, very valuable today and hard to find...

 

[TJJP77]

What would be a good bulb? Shouldn't I be using an HB2/9003 bulb? I have read here that Philips Xtreme Vision, Osram Night Breaker, Philips Xtreme Power and GE Night Hawk Platinum are good bulbs.

If you are adding relays/wiring, the Osram Rallye 70/65w +50 bulb seems to be well regarded around here if you don't mind a slight overwattage bulb.

 

[svMike]

That's an oversimplification of the case. An HB2/9003 bulb is not necessarily better than an H4.

The Koito lamps are still being made, but it's difficult to find them. Expect to pay about $145/ea or so. They have a bulb shield (which the Cibies lack), which means less upward stray light causing backscatter in fog, snow, or rain. There are other major-brand H4 lamps with bulb shields (Hella, Bosch) but their optics are very inefficient and their performance is poor as a result.

Is the Koito H4 Toyota part number 90981-01035? When I look that up it comes up as a sealed beam unit.

 

[irsa76]

Not the exact car I was looking for but it does show what you can do with a Z. A guy I know runs 7" Hella H4 with Hella compact HID drivinglights in the grill. Not an ideal mounting position but they work fairly well, would be better if he went 1 spot and 1 spread/cornering light though.

 

[Hilldweller]

Don't write off the JW Speaker 8700s so quickly. The long-term tests keep nudging them up over all the others in terms of overall satisfaction from my guinea pigs in the field.
The camera isn't as kind to them as the subjective observations...
I have one volunteer that has two Jeep XJs using the 5x7 variants of the JWS and Trucklite LED lights and he's loving the Speakers.

But the science fiction look of them is love/hate.

You can get a decent price on them from Discount Fleet Supply if you mention that you heard about them on a web forum and use the "Life Is Good" code words...

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Wow, that Z rally car is some light-packin' machine. I'm not sure I'd be willing to cut away my bumper and block most of my radiator inlet area on a street car, but it is impressive. Would compact driving lights atop the bumper look totally weird on a street 240Z?

Since we're doing flashbacks, I seem to recall that an old racing trick with cars that had 7" lights was to run Marchal Amplilux with high beam elevation set to coincide with low, both beams on simultaneously and the brightest bulbs they could stuff in there.

I still have a set of New Old Stock Amplilux (well, New Stock when I bought them in the early 80's). One of the factory boxes has disappeared in the course of a divorce and two or three moves, but they're still with me and still new. I did put bulbs into one and light it up in my basement, just to see the beams. Interesting idea for the time. Don't know what I'd do with them now. But fascinating bit of history.

 

[-Virgil-]

If you pay close attention, the Cibie Z-beam lens is actually almost completely different from the non-Z-beam Cibie lens. It has to be; the optical concept is very different. But it's unfortunately a moot point; Z-beams are sadly discontinued (avoid the "replica" ones, which are trash).

The Marchal Amplilux and its same-concept competitors from Cibie, Carello, Hella, and Bosch, with two bulbs and two reflectors behind a common lens, were the only way to have halogen low and high beam in a single headlamp -- the H1/H2/H3 came out in the early-mid '60s, but there was no 2-filament halogen bulb until the H4 came out in the early '70s. The Amplilux low beam was pretty good, but the high beam wasn't so great because of the small reflector (which nevertheless could be aim-adjusted independently of the low beam, making it a popular unit in some kinds of motorsport). The Cibie "Biode" had the opposite issue: a decent high beam but a poor low beam. Anyhow, this is moot too because all of these are discontinued.

 

[svMike]

Not the exact car I was looking for but it does show what you can do with a Z. A guy I know runs 7" Hella H4 with Hella compact HID drivinglights in the grill. Not an ideal mounting position but they work fairly well, would be better if he went 1 spot and 1 spread/cornering light though.

I've seen a few Z's that run in rally that pack lights like that. If I were running in a SCORE race, yep I'd mount lights anywhere and everywhere on my Z. But it is mostly street with some trackdays.

 

[svMike]

Don't write off the JW Speaker 8700s so quickly. The long-term tests keep nudging them up over all the others in terms of overall satisfaction from my guinea pigs in the field.
The camera isn't as kind to them as the subjective observations...
I have one volunteer that has two Jeep XJs using the 5x7 variants of the JWS and Trucklite LED lights and he's loving the Speakers.

But the science fiction look of them is love/hate.

You can get a decent price on them from Discount Fleet Supply if you mention that you heard about them on a web forum and use the "Life Is Good" code words...

I will take your word for the 8700. Do they still seel the 8700 non Evolution? I'll have to check out that code, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[svMike]

Wow, that Z rally car is some light-packin' machine. I'm not sure I'd be willing to cut away my bumper and block most of my radiator inlet area on a street car, but it is impressive. Would compact driving lights atop the bumper look totally weird on a street 240Z?

I've never seen driving lights atop the bumper, but I've seen a few fog lights mounted below the bumper. When air dams are equipped, I've seen them mounted in the brake duct. I'm pretty sure I don't want to mount any other lights.

Since we're doing flashbacks, I seem to recall that an old racing trick with cars that had 7" lights was to run Marchal Amplilux with high beam elevation set to coincide with low, both beams on simultaneously and the brightest bulbs they could stuff in there.

I still have a set of New Old Stock Amplilux (well, New Stock when I bought them in the early 80's). One of the factory boxes has disappeared in the course of a divorce and two or three moves, but they're still with me and still new. I did put bulbs into one and light it up in my basement, just to see the beams. Interesting idea for the time. Don't know what I'd do with them now. But fascinating bit of history.

That's an interesting trick. Would that kill bulb life?

 

[Hilldweller]

I will take your word for the 8700. Do they still seel the 8700 non Evolution? I'll have to check out that code, thanks for the suggestion!

Not sure ---- and you'd want to check the fitment before plunking down cash.
The older 8700 was better -- glass lens, little fan to pump heat off the heatsink to the lens to prevent ice/snow build-up. But it was fatter in back and caused fitment issues.
The Evo is much smaller and lighter ----- and the light output is about the same. I think it might even be better in the Evo...

I'll ping John at JWS and see if he knows about the older model.

 

[svMike]

If you pay close attention, the Cibie Z-beam lens is actually almost completely different from the non-Z-beam Cibie lens. It has to be; the optical concept is very different. But it's unfortunately a moot point; Z-beams are sadly discontinued (avoid the "replica" ones, which are trash).

The Marchal Amplilux and its same-concept competitors from Cibie, Carello, Hella, and Bosch, with two bulbs and two reflectors behind a common lens, were the only way to have halogen low and high beam in a single headlamp -- the H1/H2/H3 came out in the early-mid '60s, but there was no 2-filament halogen bulb until the H4 came out in the early '70s. The Amplilux low beam was pretty good, but the high beam wasn't so great because of the small reflector (which nevertheless could be aim-adjusted independently of the low beam, making it a popular unit in some kinds of motorsport). The Cibie "Biode" had the opposite issue: a decent high beam but a poor low beam. Anyhow, this is moot too because all of these are discontinued.

That is all good to know. Tucking away that part number for reference, thanks. Still firmly on the fence at this point, but I have time to noodle on it.

 

[Hilldweller]

That is all good to know. Tucking away that part number for reference, thanks. Still firmly on the fence at this point, but I have time to noodle on it.

Koitos are great but it's still an H4.
Just sayin'...

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix
Since we're doing flashbacks, I seem to recall that an old racing trick with cars that had 7" lights was to run Marchal Amplilux with high beam elevation set to coincide with low, both beams on simultaneously and the brightest bulbs they could stuff in there.

I still have a set of New Old Stock Amplilux (well, New Stock when I bought them in the early 80's). One of the factory boxes has disappeared in the course of a divorce and two or three moves, but they're still with me and still new. I did put bulbs into one and light it up in my basement, just to see the beams. Interesting idea for the time. Don't know what I'd do with them now. But fascinating bit of history.

Originally posted by svMike: That's an interesting trick. Would that kill bulb life?

No, because the Amplilux is really two lights behind one dual purpose lens. IIRC, the bulb in the low beam reflector is H1 and the bulb in the high beam reflector is H3.
Good low beam, "tunnel vison" high beam, independent elevation adjustment on the high reflector, which sits inside the bottom 1/3 of the main 7" lens/reflector unit that is the low beam and uses the upper 2/3 or the lens.

 

[svMike]

Not sure ---- and you'd want to check the fitment before plunking down cash.
The older 8700 was better -- glass lens, little fan to pump heat off the heatsink to the lens to prevent ice/snow build-up. But it was fatter in back and caused fitment issues.
The Evo is much smaller and lighter.

I'll ping John at JWS and see if he knows about the older model.

Thanks, I appreciate that.
I'll look for specs on the 8700. JW Speaker website only has info on the Evolution model at this point...

 

[lwil1962]

That's an oversimplification of the case. An HB2/9003 bulb is not necessarily better than an H4.

The Koito lamps are still being made, but it's difficult to find them. Expect to pay about $145/ea or so. They have a bulb shield (which the Cibies lack), which means less upward stray light causing backscatter in fog, snow, or rain. There are other major-brand H4 lamps with bulb shields (Hella, Bosch) but their optics are very inefficient and their performance is poor as a result.

I cant recall seeing a Koito with a bulb shield. They do come stock on Nissans and I think Toyotas (round lights), but never seen the shield in one.