Upgrading from supermarket quality for black outs and home remotes / kids toys.

[krisvm]

Hi forum,
I'm thinking about updating my candles and batteries. Advice and suggestions would be much appreciated.
I currently use supermarket torches and 1 mini mag light which is about 5 years old takes 2xAA batteries.
We had a blackout the other night and our house was woefully unprepared. We finally found some candles and the minimag which saw us through the evening.
At the moment we have many (many is an understatement) battery operated toys for the kids which seem to take a variety of AA, AAA, C and maybe D batteries.
Now, I'm not sure if I should stay cheap and happy or invest in some quality products. Currently buying bulk disposable batteries from the local costco/bunnings/supermarket and getting by with similar quality torches.
Or what options/suggestions do I have to buying rechargeable batteries (Enelope?) and a quality charger? Appropriate light (s) perhaps 2-3 torches is a good idea ? Fenix / Four sevens / zebralight? I'm interested in the 18650 batteries ( as I didn't know there was anything more powerful than the standard batteries + cr123a but I don't know much more about this stuff other than a quick look over the forum, I thought I'd let the experts help me out!
Thankyou.

1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

Online or brick and mortar- living in australia its probably cheaper online!


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest!


Flexible, although less is better always! Probably happy to spend a couple of hundred if worthwhile.


3) Format:
I think a Flash light , maybe a lantern?

4) Flashlight-specific format/size:

Not sure, probably no larger than roughly 2xAA in size?


5) Emitter/Light source:

Again I don't know, but I suppose LED is the way to go.



6) Manufacturer:

Quality please.

7) What battery type do you want to use?


Thinking 18650 sounds good especially if I can buy online with a good charger.

____I intend to use alkaline batteries (AAA, AA, C, D) (disclaimer, while it does not preclude all choices, these are not recommended for many of today's most powerful lights)
____I intend to use rechargeable nickel chemistry (NiCad, NiMH, NiZn)
____I intend to use lithium primary batteries (CR123, CR2, Energizer Advanced/Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA)
____I intend to use rechargeable lithium (li-ion) chemistry. Feel free to specify a size if you know which size you want (14500, RCR123/16340, 17500, 17670, 18650, etc.)
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery. (Note: these choices may be very limited unless you are looking at spotlights)


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible).


From these options sounds like 100-300.

____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (0-10 lumens).
____I want to walk around an unlit rural area (50-150 lumens).
____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
____I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
____I want ridiculous amounts of lumens (800+ lumens).


9) Throw vs. Flood: At what distance will you be most likely to use this light? Select all that apply.


Maybe 30-50 yards – good look at the back yard.
Also useable inside during a black out.

____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
____150+ yards (I want maximum throw possible)


10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum output).


From the optiosn…~2 hours

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
____90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
____3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).


11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.


Very important.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
____Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


12) Switch Type and location (choose all that apply):

Don't care.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

I don't know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

Something decent maybe anodized aluminium or above if worthwhile.
____Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).



15) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any below.

Don't think so.

 

[Knight_Light]

Welcome to CPF. I will start you off with the following suggestions.

• Get the xtar VP1 to charger lithium ion batteries.
• Check out fasttech.com for some good quality 18650 batteries fairly inexpensively.
• If you're going to have multiple lights make sure you have a combination of headlamps and flashlights. You can skip over lanterns as both of the previous options mentioned can function in that capacity.
• Buy Eneloops for your rechargeable nimh AA and AAA needs.
• Buy yourself a Lacrosse BC 1000 to charge your Eneloops.

 

[Poppy]

Certainly there are a variety of options, and a number of considerations. You'll have to choose which ones fit your needs best, in part based upon your motivating factors, and level of motivation.

Considering that a power outage is your primary concern, you'll want to have rechargeable batteries, and a method to charge them.
I'd like to suggest that you consider the nitecore intellicharger i4 and its 12v car adapter. When the power is out, you'll want the ability to recharge your batteries from the car battery (which can be recharged with the alternator in a short period of time). That particular charger can charge up to 4 batteries at a time, and can do either lithiums or eneloops NiMH.

Considering that you have a demand for AA and AAA batteries (kids toys) eneloops would be a good place to start.

AA batteries are the same length as C cells, and if rolled up in cardboard can replace C cells in flashlights. There are also AA to D cell adapters that you might consider getting when you get your eneloops.

I have found that 100 lumens from a ceiling bounced flashlight pretty comfortably lights a 15' x 15' room (I think that a 60W incandescent bulb gives off approximately 800 lumens)
10-30 lumens will light the same room more than a candle, so that you won't trip on anything as you walk around, but unless you LIKE relative darkness, you won't be particularly happy, and if like me will feel "light deprived"

Power failure strategy:
I have at least one power failure light (one that is plugged into an outlet and comes on when the power goes off) on each floor of the house including the basement. This will keep the kids from going into PANIC mode, and greatly reduces the risk of someone tripping, falling and getting injured while setting the house or its occupants up with adequate lighting. Each can be obtained for as little as $10 US and will throw 10-20 lumens for 20 minutes to an hour.

Walmart sells 2D cell rayovac lights (with batteries) for a mere $2.50 they put out approx 20-30 lumens for I guess 25 hours. I have I guess four of them, usually stored in one location, but they end up all over the house. They are big enough that they don't get lost, and are good enough for the kids if they need a light. A pair of zinc carbon D cells can be had for a buck, so if they leave the light on and kill the batteries, ... oh well. I'll have a half a dozen or so spares, but they are just to have.

Walmart also sells 2AA cell rayovacs that put out 12 lumens. I also have a few of those. They get lost. They can run eneloops for hours, (I don't know how many, probably 10-15 hours)

So now with a bunch of cheap flashlights each member of the house can walk around and get stuff, and take showers, etc.

I imagine that you'll want to light a room or two with a fair amount of light for passing the time, playing games, listening to the radio, and have the ability to light the kitchen.

There are a number of quality AA lights that'll put out 100-300 lumens, but their run times will only be 1-2 hours depending upon the output selected.
18650 lights on the other hand will put out the same 100-300 lumens for 4-15 hours

This is from one of Selfbuilt's reviews

• HIGH OUTPUT / RUNTIME: 220 lumens / 1.3 hour
• MEDIUM OUTPUT / RUNTIME: 35 lumens / 10 hours
• LOW OUTPUT / RUNTIME: 2 lumens / 100 hours
• BATTERY TYPE: 1×AA

So the choice comes down to getting a few higher quality AA lights and changing the batteries more frequently, or a few not necessarily high quality 18650 lights and changing the batteries less frequently.

 

[BeastFlashlight]

So Poppy, if price is flexible do u consider Nitecore TM26 the idea blackout light?

 

[krisvm]

Hey Guys thankyou for helping out a newcomer like me!

Do I need two separate chargers? One for Ni and another for Li ?
At the moment I have no rechargeable batteries so I am starting from scratch. I'm happy to just have Li Ion if possible.
Do Eneloop come in LI rechargeable? Or just Ni and this is why I need two chargers?
Being able to charge from the car is a great idea! I'm sure there must be an adapter for the Xtar VP1 ?

I noticed the zebralight SC52 takes AA or 14500 batteries. A light that takes 18650 or AA sounds like it would be great... or has an adapter to use both.
Is it worth settling for 14500 and AA given the dual use in torches like sc52 or is it really that much better to get a 18650?

18650 does not seem too large for an EDC, or does the forum generally think this is too big?

I think at this stage, ideally, if possible I would like Li only batteries, AA, AAA, C, and 18650 with a nice torch, EDC size, which can use 18650 or AA and then just the one charger. If I was to get any extra equipment it would be another torch or headlamp!


Cheers
kris

 

[TMedina]

The Rayovac Indestructible, available at Home Depot, runs on two AA primaries and has a high/low mode.

It's a great light for the price, but it's also bulky enough that you won't slip it in your pocket and forget about it.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

The Rayovac Indestructible, available at Home Depot, runs on two AA primaries and has a high/low mode.

It's a great light for the price, but it's also bulky enough that you won't slip it in your pocket and forget about it.

not sure they sell that in Australia

 

[Poppy]

So Poppy, if price is flexible do u consider Nitecore TM26 the idea blackout light?

Hi Beast, you know... certainly I am not the expert around here, I do not have a lot of exposure to high quality lights.

LOL... for that light, the TM26, money would have to be NO Object
But yeah, or something along those lines, would be great for black-outs. I have a TN30 that'll nicely light up an auditorium well enough for everyone to escape. Yet, absent lighting an auditorium, for a power outage at home, four single 18650 lights with P60 drop-ins will do just as well, and there would be greater flexibility. You could put one in each of four rooms, or all four in the same room. Each host with a drop-in can be had for about $30.

Hey Guys thankyou for helping out a newcomer like me!

Do I need two separate chargers? One for Ni and another for Li ?
At the moment I have no rechargeable batteries so I am starting from scratch. I'm happy to just have Li Ion if possible.
Do Eneloop come in LI rechargeable? Or just Ni and this is why I need two chargers?
Being able to charge from the car is a great idea! I'm sure there must be an adapter for the Xtar VP1 ?

I noticed the zebralight SC52 takes AA or 14500 batteries. A light that takes 18650 or AA sounds like it would be great... or has an adapter to use both.
Is it worth settling for 14500 and AA given the dual use in torches like sc52 or is it really that much better to get a 18650?

18650 does not seem too large for an EDC, or does the forum generally think this is too big?

I think at this stage, ideally, if possible I would like Li only batteries, AA, AAA, C, and 18650 with a nice torch, EDC size, which can use 18650 or AA and then just the one charger. If I was to get any extra equipment it would be another torch or headlamp!


Cheers
kris

Hi Kris,
I have an Xtar WP6-2 charger that does only lithiums, but 6 at a time. It comes with the car adapter.
I wouldn't get the VP1 because it only does 2 at a time.

On the other hand, the Nitecore intellicharger I mentioned above will do lithiums, and it will do Ni, therefore you will need only ONE charger. It doesn't come with the car adapter (unless they changed their packaging) and IMO that is a NECESSARY option.

Eneloops only come in AA size, and only as Ni.

At this point I'm not going to make a specific light recommendation, as you still need to settle on SIZE of battery.

More generalities.
EDC to me means... carry on my person. Not many use holsters (except for work) so for the most part, that means... in my pockets.
There is a thread around here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...our-Pocket(s)-Third-Edition&highlight=pockets
showing what people actually carry as EDCs. You'll find that for the most part they are smaller lights. Usually not larger than a single AA 14500 light.

So regarding an EDC, I'd suggest an AA light that can take a 14500 battery... not all can.

While I really like the capacity of 18650 batteries and the output of the lights that they power, a reasonable argument can be made to get a few AA lights that can take 14500 batteries, and some 14500 batteries. Then you can focus on getting rechargeable Ni AAs for the kids toys, and be able to recharge them and use them in lights if and when needed.

power outage lighting.
I have one or two of those plug in the outlet electric power failure lights on each floor of the house, including the basement, and one in the garage. I think that they are a necessity, primarily so the kids don't panic when there is sudden darkness, and so that no one gets hurt stumbling around while going for back up lights. They can be had for as little as $10 each.

 

[RCS1300]

Do not go Lithium Ion batteries - 18650 - unless you plan to learn about these batteries, how to manage them, and how to check their voltage before EACH use. It is a powerful, but potentially dangerous battery chemistry.

My suggestion is to look to LED lights using AA batteries or CR123A batteries. I like CR123A because they have a ten year shelf life. The downside is that you cannot store them in the trunk of a car during summertime because they are not stable in high heat environments. That is where AA batteries come in. The AA battery may leak but it won't become volatile.

Fenix LD22 and Fenix PD22 and Fenix PD32. These Fenix lights also offer additional accessories like diffuser wands for use during a blackout.

 

[reppans]

So regarding an EDC, I'd suggest an AA light that can take a 14500 battery... not all can.

While I really like the capacity of 18650 batteries and the output of the lights that they power, a reasonable argument can be made to get a few AA lights that can take 14500 batteries, and some 14500 batteries. Then you can focus on getting rechargeable Ni AAs for the kids toys, and be able to recharge them and use them in lights if and when needed.

This is my approach as well. I've consolidated nearly all my portable electronic camping/travel/emergency gadgets around Eneloop AAs and can feed everything from a central pool of batts, and wall/solar chargers. Also have lots of back-up options between convenience stores, cannibalizing between devices, and even scavenging AAs, AAAs, and AAAAs (from 9Vs), using spacers where necessary, that litter the house in few dozen other devices.

I'll use 14500s day to day, and Eneloops for travel, but I also like 3v CRAA Lithium Primaries (same as CR123s) in my lights if off-grid for a while - I can always use this cell in any of my other 2AA devices (along with a dummy cell).

Lots of options using a 0.9-4.2v AA/14500 light.

 

[Poppy]

This is my approach as well. I've consolidated nearly all my portable electronic camping/travel/emergency gadgets around Eneloop AAs and can feed everything from a central pool of batts, and wall/solar chargers. Also have lots of back-up options between convenience stores, cannibalizing between devices, and even scavenging AAs, AAAs, and AAAAs (from 9Vs), using spacers where necessary, that litter the house in few dozen other devices.

I'll use 14500s day to day, and Eneloops for travel, but I also like 3v CRAA Lithium Primaries (same as CR123s) in my lights if off-grid for a while - I can always use this cell in any of my other 2AA devices (along with a dummy cell).

Lots of options using a 0.9-4.2v AA/14500 light.

LOL... reppans, I was thinking of YOU, when I wrote

a reasonable argument can be made to get a few AA lights that can take 14500 batteries, and some 14500 batteries. Then you can focus on getting rechargeable Ni AAs for the kids toys, and be able to recharge them and use them in lights if and when needed.

Quite possibly, my next light will be a single AA that can take a 14500. I don't have one yet.

I bought 18650 lights for search and rescue, and a compliment of batteries to last through the night on high if needed. I really appreciate the power and performance of the 18650 cell, and now have a number of lights that will take them. Unfortunately, nothing else in the house runs on 18650's I therefore have a considerable investment in batteries for my flashlights.

On the other hand, you would need a fist full of AAs to light up a couple of rooms with 300 lumens for six hours or so.

My current lighting strategy is a blend of different lights and battery sizes, the most important part IMO is having a sufficient number of rechargeables, and the ability to charge them in the car. I have a radio-shack 4 port AA / AAA NiMH charger, and a 6 port Xtar Li charger, both can be used in the car.

 

[reppans]

LOL... reppans, I was thinking of YOU, when I wrote...

DOH!

On the other hand, you would need a fist full of AAs to light up a couple of rooms with 300 lumens for six hours or so.

That's true, and I know I'm a rare bird (Owl?) here, but I find I quite like letting my eyes fully dark-adapt and using low lumens... it's the best free flashlight turbo charger and you get see the environment (outside) pretty well beyond the flashlight's beam. I think I actually having a problem cycling my 1x14500 cells enough and I use my lights a couple hrs/day.

I just picked up a 4xEneloop 1k lumen thrower, the D40A (since it has a sub-lumen mode) - my most powerful light to date and it confirms that all important logarithmic perception, law-of-disminishing-return thing. I can barely distinguish the difference between 1000 and 600 lumens, and the 200 lumens mode ain't far behind either. By the same token, the 1 lumen mode is surprisingly bright and useful... anyways, it's too wooded around here for the power/throw to be really useful, and so is just a toy for me.

 

[trialt]

Here is what I would do for an emergency flashlight for blackouts: Get a Surefire G2 nitrolon, get a Malkoff M61LL dropin to replace the incan lamp in the G2. Get a few dozen SF CR123 batteries. You will have a hassle free and very dependable solution for your blackouts.
As a backup (should your primary setup fail for some unknown unlikely reason) get one of the newer 2xAA mag leds that has a low and high mode and ofcourse AA batteries.

 

[krisvm]

Hi Guys,
Its been about 1 month now, ive used up all the batteries lying around the house and done some calculations.
I actually need approximately 40 AA batteries and 10 AAA batteries. Thinking the latest Generation Eneloop. Where should I buy them?
I need a decent charger that has the option to charge from the car and/or a converter of sorts that will let me do that.
I need a good multimeter.
I also need an EDC torch that can fit in a pocket. Thinking SC52 but been put off by green tint or Malkoff.
I would like a pen light of sorts or edc that is suitable to check for pupil reflexes.
Later this year i'd like to buy suitable lights for cycling.
Kind regards,
kris

 

[Trevtrain]

Hi Guys,
Its been about 1 month now, ive used up all the batteries lying around the house and done some calculations.
I actually need approximately 40 AA batteries and 10 AAA batteries. Thinking the latest Generation Eneloop. Where should I buy them?

Keep an eye out for **** Smith specials. (You can subscribe to email notifications if you like.) Every couple of months they have 8 packs of AA eneloops for around $20-$22 which is half the regular price. (I haven't seen them discount the AAA but it could happen.) If you are in a hurry, Fasttech is probably cheaper than you will find here.

I need a decent charger that has the option to charge from the car and/or a converter of sorts that will let me do that.

The MAHA C9000 will do this but it isn't cheap. It is however probably worth the investment in the longer term. I got mine from Protog but you would probably find it cheaper on ebay/amazon.

I also need an EDC torch that can fit in a pocket. Thinking SC52 but been put off by green tint or Malkoff.
I would like a pen light of sorts or edc that is suitable to check for pupil reflexes.

How big a pocket? I EDC a Fenix LD01 (AAA) which would work for your pupil test but the twisty interface might not be what you are after. For a clicky you could try a FourSevens Preon?
For better battery life, a AA light like the Thrunite T10 is easily pocketed but it really depends on how much output you want. Olight S15 perhaps?

Later this year i'd like to buy suitable lights for cycling.

Lupine? But only if money is no object.
Armytek is also bringing out a couple of bike lights later in the year. I'll be waiting for the reviews on these to come in.

There are lots of "budget" ****fire bike lights and some may well be OK depending on your finances. The biggest drawback of most of them is that the supplied battery packs are made from poor quality cells. If you go this way, at least try to find one that allows you to fit your own 18650s.

 

[krisvm]

Thankyou for the advice, I will keep an eye on **** smith. Wish they had the sale on now! Fasttech is showing the sanyo xx as discontinued. Should I purchase a different eneloop such as rouge or standard? Ill get the MAHA C9000 seems as though is similar to the Lacrosse B1000 and these are the top two chargers. Thanks.

 

[waywardgeek]

The truth is you'll do just fine getting through black outs with any $7 LED flashlight. I think we had about 4 of them around here with something like 7 low power LEDs each, running on 3 AAA batteries and a cheap clicky tail switch. These lights suck comparitavely, but they're cheap, and run on the same batteries found in toys.

Then there's what's really going on... like me, you think flashlights are cool, and want a nice one. That's the first step towards flashoholism! I just had a discussion with my wife, who is quite displeased, about why I just spent another $120 on a tiny flashlight. It's all about what happens in an emergency! Keep up that line, or you wont get your cool flashlight

Flashoholism seems to be a progression, and it's not cheap. In my case it was Maglite XL-50 -> Fenix PD-32 -> Fenix PD-32 for my son -> Fenix E01 -> Fenix LD01 -> Klarus Mi-X6 Au -> Foursevens twice just this week! My kids are very concerned for me. I claim to have an excuse - I'm losing some vision and need flashlights just to see in many normal daily situations, like finding the soup in the pantry. However, I could have stopped at the Fenix E01, which is crappy, but good enough to provide light in dark-ish places. Now I'm on a quest for the perfect light. Just today I ordered the Foursevens Maelstrom MM-X with turbo boost. Is that the perfect light?

 

[LEDninja]

• Get the xtar VP1 to charger lithium ion batteries.
• Check out fasttech.com for some good quality 18650 batteries fairly inexpensively.

Lithium batteries just love to catch fire if not treated properly. So study the instructions on their safe handling before deciding to go that route. You do not seem to need super brightness or throw at this point.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Using-Li-ion-cells-in-LED-flashlights-safely

Mini Maglite Pro Plus. 2 levels, $28.99:
245 lumens on high ~17X your old one;
25% of that on low ~4X brighter than your current one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XJBjUURSqo

Do not get the single level Pro. It will drain the batteries too fast during a blackout.

If you need a brighter light get the 3C Defiant XML from Home Depot. ~$25.