Will LED be the future of lightings? How long it will be?

[2xTrinity]

While they still are quite more eye-catching than the old incan version, the middle cluster is obviously dimmer than all the others around.
--> will happen to street lighting also
--> money burned for nothing within some years time, bureacracy on its best (if used instead of light tubes).
Hope they will do a test run with just a few lights be4 changing everything

This is the problem with integrated phosphor LEDs. The phosphors degrade over time, just like the phosphors on fluorescent tubes. The direct color-emitters don't have the same problem of dimming over time (at least not necessarily... LEDs that are overdriven or poorly heatsinked do). IMHO the street lights will be a much better bet if they use RGB rather than phosphor LEDs (the problem with that for the time being is that efficiency on the green component is terrible).

The other option would be to design street light with SEPARATE phosphors and separate blue emitters. The phosphor could be built into the diffuser (which would make for more nicely diffused light -- important to cut down on glare), and it would be cheaper to replace a phosphor-panel than dropping in entire new LEDs every time. Even then though, the LEDs shuld be potted and easily swappable, similar to standard lamps, rather than the current design philosophy of engineered obsolescence where the entire fixture must be replaced if an LED dies.

But finally, to take full advantage of the LEDs, I think it would be wise to build in the ability to switch the street lights off and on using motion sensors -- that way, the lights would only be burning when someone is actually present (extending the life of the LED, reducing light pollution, and saving energy).

 

[TorchBoy]

Switching street lights over to LEDs eventually is where there is room for big improvemnt -- more efficiently directly the light, and also turning the lights OFF when they are not needed, and switching them off/on with motion sensors would be just as effective, yet cut way down on light pollution, and energy use.

FWIW around here most street lights are high pressure sodium vapour, at 150 lm/W. If motion sensors meant lights were off for 2/3 of the time it would save on electricity even with current LED tech. But you'd need a lot of LEDs to make up that brightness. And then there's heat...

Edit: ?

 

[OCEANBEAMER]

Canada passed a law requireing led's after 2012.

 

[brickbat]

Canada passed a law requireing led's after 2012.

Got details?

 

[IMSabbel]

About to OP:

Yes, LED will be the future of lighting, and be it forever.

I wont say what kind (Multi-die, blue+phosphor, or quantum dot broadened...). But there just isnt any way to create photons more efficient than LED. (ok, some solid state lasers are, but thats the same principle as led, and not as well suited for general lighting)

Add to this the inifinite granularity (smaller== more efficient), which will revolutionize the way things are lit.

I can already imagine having ceiling panals that had 10cm grid of tiny 0.1W leds build in, or something. (would create awesome soft lighting without any real cooling requirements.

The old "you have one spot where all the light comes from" methology born form light types that scale in efficiency with size is going to go down.

 

[Daekar]

The old "you have one spot where all the light comes from" methology born form light types that scale in efficiency with size is going to go down.

As optimistic as I would like to be about this, I have to disagree partially. The reason is, if you only have light coming from one place, you only have to run wire and power to one place. If light is coming from many places and you still only run wire to one place, then you'll have to have huge fixtures or grids which will be a pain to install and almost impossible to replace. If you still want the modularity offered by single-point lighting without large fixtures, then you'd have to run lots of wire. If any of the above have a chance to take off in the current consumer market, its that which is most familiar and similar in nature to the lights in use today. A modular grid/large fixture would be nice - maybe somebody from here could design one...

Oh yes, if you have a grid of many many LEDs, you have more connections, more chances for failure, etc...

 

[2xTrinity]

As optimistic as I would like to be about this, I have to disagree partially. The reason is, if you only have light coming from one place, you only have to run wire and power to one place. If light is coming from many places and you still only run wire to one place, then you'll have to have huge fixtures or grids which will be a pain to install and almost impossible to replace. If you still want the modularity offered by single-point lighting without large fixtures, then you'd have to run lots of wire. If any of the above have a chance to take off in the current consumer market, its that which is most familiar and similar in nature to the lights in use today. A modular grid/large fixture would be nice - maybe somebody from here could design one...

Oh yes, if you have a grid of many many LEDs, you have more connections, more chances for failure, etc...

I do think that things will shift toward more diffused lighting. Consider the advantages of using essentially a thin LED panel (perhaps side-lit, or with lots of diffused emiters) designed as a replacement for in-ceiling fluorescent panels with diffusers. The ability for the panels to be thinner and light weight should make installation a lot easier in the long run than typical office fluorescent fixtures, for diffused lighting.

I also think there are advantages of say, track light fixtures being offered in something more efficient than halogen lamps, for applications where spot-lighting is important. Small LED lamps installed onto a track could be a lot smaller, and lower maintenance than say MR16 halogen tracklights (not as many burned-out lamps to replaces)

Unfortunately I do think that you are right, the market will probabyl be most interested in buying LED replacements to standard light bubls, which IMHO is a very very poor application for LEDs (no heatsinking, no taking advantage of the ability for LEDs to be more efficiently focused/directed)

 

[hotbeam]

LEDs will indeed be the future of lighting. Efficiency is increasing all the time. There will be (are) 2 types of LED lighting products, one for the huge retrofit market and one is for new installations. LED bulbs (MR16, E27, GU10, etc...) and flouro replacements (eg), although less efficient due to ballasts and double transformers, and generally have less thermal considerations, will flourish. LED fittings where the LEDs are integral to the fitting will cater for the new developments. These will generally have better thermal management and better efficiency (transformer) and should live up to the expectations of LEDs.

 

[TorchBoy]

I do think that things will shift toward more diffused lighting. ...
Unfortunately I do think that you are right, the market will probabyl be most interested in buying LED replacements to standard light bubls, ...)

+1 on both counts. I'd quite like an OLED ceiling. Nice diffuse light, and the cost for it (eventually) won't be very high.

Diffuse light off the ceiling was very nice on the occasions I've bounced a couple of 500W halogens off the ceiling. Bright, yes, but no glare because it was spread out.

 

[rain5539]

No. A number of governments are looking into banning incans because they are inefficient. What you replace them with is your business.


It's being talked about already.


We don't know. Other contenders include EL, Fluorescent, and CFL. Let the games begin...

We don't know. I just put in a 65 watt LED light this week.

WHAT IS THE COST OF A 65W LED LIGHT?

 

[Ken_McE]

WHAT IS THE COST OF A 65W LED LIGHT?

Came to $200 US with shipping for a first generation panel:

http://www.ledfolio.com/inc.php?inc=pro_tilux

LEDs will indeed be the future of lighting.

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

 

[2xTrinity]

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

There are several disadvantages to HID/Fluorescent where LEDs will eventually be a better solution, particularly cold sensitivity (LEDs work best in cold), focusability (fluorescent can't be focused), small scaleability (HID has a lot of up front cost with ballasts, and doesn't do well for things like small track lights)

HID/Fluorescent is inherently the cheapest way to go for high output, though things like the ceiling panels you linked I think will eventually become more popular, as they are easier to install than bulkier fluorescent fixtuers. Also the diffused fluorescent fixtures tend to be fairly inefficient, the efficient fixtures are generally exposed tubes with a reflector, and work great for warehouses/garages but are inappropriate for home/office use.

Generall though, I'd agree, there's a lot more high-quality stuff available in Fluorescent/HID than most people know about.

 

[IMSabbel]

Err, is there something wrong with HID, Fluorescent, and Electroluminescent? Some of these are here and ready right now.

Electroluminiescent doesnt cut it. Nice for "exit here" signs, or case-mods, but sucks at efficience and chromatic distribution.
Fluorescent is the strongest contender, but is a matured technology (no big advances to be expected), needs high voltage, bulky fixtures, self-shadowing losses,ect).

HID is nice in projectors (automotive lightings, Beamers, ect), no question. Suffers from BAD bulb lifetimes (making it unsuitable for general lighting), need for complex ballast/high voltage and really bad downscaling (by the time you are down to a power-level that doesnt cause glare/uncomfortable light indoors, you are less efficient than leds and fluorescent).

So, to answer your question, thats wrong.

 

[TorchBoy]

(by the time you are down to a power-level that doesnt cause glare/uncomfortable light indoors, you are less efficient than leds and fluorescent).

But if you get a really bright LED, which is basically a spot source, that bright, isn't it going to have bad glare too? :thinking:

 

[Melchior]

LED Lighting is being used wrongly

LEDs being quite radically different from all other forms of lighting, is being thought about wrong.

A LED 'fixture' should not in any way attempt to replace a Incandescent/Fluorescent 1:1.

LED's greatest issue is heat of course, which means any high density light systems will suffer from thermal breakdown and reduced lifetimes due to phosphor decay.

I think an ideal solution would be to have very LARGE ceiling panels (residential) that use a small number of Power LEDs.

Along with point light sources like current Halogen track lighting.

However I think the real advances are going to be 'weird' LED lighting like fraen optic panels that have pre-focused areas to precisely light up a room or other area.

Also strange things like corner lights (which only CCFL and very small florescent can also do, and area edge lighting will use LEDs sooner.

The old concept of having a omni directional light source (like a candle or Incandescent) just won't work for LEDs. Thus when people try and replace CFLs or whatnot with them it will produce poor results.

In short LEDs require a major rethink of Light fixtures currently used.

What I see as becoming popular in a short term is a LED 'Tree' Lamp~

Something with multiple 'branches' each with a single LED power emmiter on the end, each branch could then be aimed where its needed most, and if more light is required then several branches are aimed in the same location.

 

[2xTrinity]

But if you get a really bright LED, which is basically a spot source, that bright, isn't it going to have bad glare too? :thinking:

A single bright LED is a poor idea for area illumnation -- large high-power LEDs are better for flashlights or spotlights, where throw is needed. If only flood is needed, using a large array of multiple lower-powered, surface-mounted LEDs (not 5mm epoxy, which have no heatsinking) , or even an entire "sheet" of OLEDs for diffused illumnation is the best way to go to avoid glare. It also spreads the heat out more compared to a high-power LED.

As for a product available right now, IMHO a high quality fluorescent fixture (like a T5 or T8 fixture with high CRI tubes) is the best way to go for area lighting -- both due to high efficiency, and low glare.

Even with bright power LEDs, glare is a lot easier to manage than with an HID because the optics associated with it can be scaled down, and multiple, smaller spotlight can be used instead of one central large light. The biggest problem with HID is that it requires bulky glass fixtures and/or reflectors to contain in . That's because HID lamps operate at very high pressure, and in the case of a faulty lamp might explode which woudl be extremely dangerous without a bulky glass surrounding. An LED with a tiny optic can get the job done just as well, occupy much less space, and will be perfectly safe (no high voltage, no explosion risk).

 

[Ken_McE]

Electroluminiescent doesnt cut it. Nice for "exit here" signs, or case-mods, but sucks at efficience and chromatic distribution.

The Ceelite people http://www.ceelite.com/ sell what they feel is an improved EL panel for general lighting. I'd like to see one, but am waiting for someone else to buy one first.

 

[JohnB]

I think it is just a matter of time before LED's take over.
Municipalities are sold on them already because of the savings they have seen from traffic signals. High power street lights are being deployed and tested in several major cities. We are very close to the tipping point. The technology needs to mature a little more. Heat management and spread issues are being addressed. I have seen these products up close and they do work. Maybe light bulbs will take longer but streetlights are already here.

Regards

 

[BB62]

...Heat management and spread issues are being addressed...

By "spread issues" do you mean the spreading of light - scattered instead of focused or vice versa?

Thanks!

 

[mulki]

Interesting BBC article on OLED Light Bulbs;

Natural light 'to reinvent bulbs'

The clock is ticking for light bulbs
A light source that could put the traditional light bulb in the shade has been invented by US scientists.
The organic light-emitting diode (OLED) emits a brilliant white light when attached to an electricity supply.

Link