Cutter MR11 tripple Cree beam pattern

I've just put together a bike light using the Cutter tripple Cree PCB with 3 x Cree Q5 LED's. I'm using the Cutter supplied Khatod optics and the beam pattern is terrible.

Up close (3m say) against a wall the hotspot looks like 3 squares on top of each other, but not centrally, in a sort of line. At a distance you can't make out the edges of the squares unless you are looking for them but you do notice that the hot spot is elongated and not what you were expecting!

I've built up some other bike lights using the Leidil Rocket 3 optics (with Cree LED's) and the beam pattern is far far superior.

Anyone else notice this?

Pictures would be great, please.

I have been wondering about that MR11 optics and how they compare with 3 individual optics, the three components seem to overlap significantly.

The squares will be the actual emitter, but really the optics should be doing a better job of focusing the light into a useable shape.

I've had reservations about mr11 optics in a triple setup. IMHO there just isn't enough space to get 3 decent optics in there. An mr16 works far better as a triple i think. This is the route i'm currently heading for with a wide optic. will be using a double spot achesalot design for my lid.

Lazgoat said:

IAnyone else notice this?

Click to expand...

I ordered the 25deg lens in addition to the supplied lens. Beam shots look like this:




The camera/light is 2.1m from the wall. The carpenters ruler is angeled at 40cm. Do the math yourself!

it is because theese optics are really not made for cree leds it is old luxeon optics / khatod didnt know how to make cree optics at this first production batch! so thou they fit the focal lenghts ect in theese optics are not for cree leds

i have had a good conversation with both khatod and cutter about this! thats why the 8degree optics they are selling for this kit does not really create a 8 degree beam patern however i use the light mostly for trailriding thou it is not optimal with this setting the light does a pretty good job suiting the pourpose!

a true 8-14 cree optic would however be superior for a bikelight

imageicon said:

does not really create a 8 degree beam patern

Click to expand...

So thats why the 8 deg lens i projecting approx 15 deg. If I knew this I would not have ordered the 25 deg lens. Is Khathod planning on making a true Cree MR11 optic?

Geir68 said:

So thats why the 8 deg lens i projecting approx 15 deg. If I knew this I would not have ordered the 25 deg lens. Is Khathod planning on making a true Cree MR11 optic?

Click to expand...

Cutter is getting one made based on a MR16 med wide triple optic.

I have tried out the MR16 that it will be copied off and it will make a great wide beam with no artifacts.




Cheers
Dom

hey dom, what current are you running in that pic?

Thanks for confirming what I'd thought, imageicon. When Cutter first came out with these kits I went searching on the Khatod site for the lens they were using, but couldn't find a narrow beam MR11 triple for the XR-E. They only make medium and wide beam versions. It seems Khatod have always had trouble with the XR-E, as it took a while for them to even come out with a narrow beam MR16 (50mm) triple lens for it.

The triple MR11 XR-E optic Khatod do is the PL605 series at http://www.khatod.com/k52_triple_xlamp.htm but as I said they only do medium and wide beam. Personally I reckon you want a narrow beam optic for an LED bike light (hence not convinced by what you're showing dom - though there is a narrow beam MR16 triple in the PL353 NK series which would work) - mine uses the Cree 8 degree ones, and I still get plenty enough spill to see around me without wasting all my light on the trees above my head.

Ok here are my beam shots to illustrate the point.

First up is the Cutter tripple Cree (Q5's) in an MR11 housing with the narrow Khatod optics.



This second image is of 3 x Cree Q2's in an MR16 housing with 14degree Ledil Rocket3 optics also from Cutter.



The distance to the wall is 2.0m. Camera settings were 18mm focal length, 1/20th Sec shutter and F3.5 i believe.

Just to reconfirm the new custom optic will be the same as this MR16 and will be in two angles
+/-4 Degrees
+/-14 Degrees
Current advise says it will ship to us by end November

coming......

4 up optic, same angles in MR11 size,
with R2 leds, 1000+ Lumens !
with R4 Leds 1200+ lumens !

Cheers
Mark
Cutter Electronics

Well from a bike point of view the beamshot from Lazgoat looks ideal. A bright spot pointed down the road (good throw) and heaps of spill low for nearby objects! No light wasted beaming off into space.
However I don't think its supposed to look like that!

Welight, any idea of timeframes on the R4s and quad optics?
Im quite happy with dual Q5s 400lm output but the Quad R4s would increase 400lm runtimes by 50%!

OK, since you're here Mark, a couple of questions:

Will the new MR16 optic be like the currently available 353XXNK lens, but with different beam widths (that is available in 10/25 degree)?

Will the new quad MR11 optic be something specific for the XR-E?

actually, also a 3rd question:
Since you mention R4s, any idea of the timescale on those?

TheFunkyMonkey said:

hey dom, what current are you running in that pic?

Click to expand...

Hi TFM
Using a Fatman at 1A

Cheers
Dom

Hi chris_m
I use mostly the 10deg Seoul MR11 now -found the Cree 8deg single optics a little too tight for my liking on the road.

The Cree MR16 beam is as good ,or nicer looking anyway, as the 25deg MR11 Seoul which are good for offroad.

I don't think Mark is doing any MR16 -only getting the MR11's made in similar beam patterns. Which will be great.


Cheers
Dom

Hi Lazgoat
Can you move the optic around a bit? I can only get mine to look like that first pic with the offset spot when the optic isn't centered properly on the emitters.

It should look like Geir68's pic in post #4

Cheers
Dom

MR11, CREE q4's, cutter setup...

Not very happy with pattern...

Anyone know of another mr11 type optic/reflector?

chris_m said:

OK, since you're here Mark, a couple of questions:

Will the new MR16 optic be like the currently available 353XXNK lens, but with different beam widths (that is available in 10/25 degree)?


Will the new quad MR11 optic be something specific for the XR-E?
Yes purpose designed for the XRE

actually, also a 3rd question:
Since you mention R4s, any idea of the timescale on those?

Click to expand...

Will the new quad MR11 optic be something specific for the XR-E?
Yes purpose designed for the XRE

The new MR16 is available now as per the photo from DOM and yes the beam angles are both tighter

actually, also a 3rd question:
Since you mention R4s, any idea of the timescale on those?
Wish I had them now, realistically feb 08
Cheers
Mark

dom said:

Hi Lazgoat
Can you move the optic around a bit? I can only get mine to look like that first pic with the offset spot when the optic isn't centered properly on the emitters.

It should look like Geir68's pic in post #4

Cheers
Dom

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip Dom, the optics were sitting slightly off centre. New beamshot is far far better



This is at 750mA, Shutter 1/25th sec, ISO200, F3.5, 18mm. Distance to wall is 2m. Not sure why its that tint, in real life its not that yellow.

So I have a question that isn't directly related to beam pattern, but more on this MR11 kit.

Can I use this to convert an existing light that uses an MR11 bulbs? Currently I have a dual light, that has 10w/20w beams, that runs off 6v.

The 6V bulbs are getting harder and harder to find, and it would also be nice to get a brighter setup of it. I think a Triple Cree setup running at 1000mah would be brighter than even a 20w halogen beam?

Has anyone done something like this?

Thanks!