What are the lessons from 9/11?

1. We shouldn't wait for the next attack, we must take the war to the terrorists.
2. If a cop walks up to your car window, and you suddenly reach under the seat, he might shoot, because he survives by thinking negatively, by assuming the worst. With WMDs, we have to think negatively, too: the regime in Iraq has used WMDs, it supports terrorism and torture: that's the same as "suddenly reaching under the seat".
3. Terrorists are like mosquitos: it doesn't do any good to squash just a few, we have to drain the swamp (destroy their breeding grounds). There are several terrorist swamps in the world. There is a swamp in Afghanistan called Taliban, we already drained that one, I think. Iraq is next on the list.
4. Since 9/11, there has been no "choice between war and peace". On that day, the terrorists knocked on our door and said: "What are you guys all about, anyway? We don't think you're so tough. In fact, we've got plans to destroy your country, whaddaya say to that?" I say, drain the swamp, but the anti-war crowd says: "no, don't do that, that would be war! No! We want peace! Peace! Why rush to war when we can have peace instead!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Max

I hear what you're saying, and I understand your conclusion. I think we all agree that nobody actually WANTS war. Right? I hope that's the case, at least. What we don't agree on are all the reasons for not wanting that war. From your post, I hear "I don't want war, but the effects of NOT taking it to Iraq are worse than the effects of going to war."

One of my worries is that while we're draining the swamp to rid the world of mosquitos, we might stumble upon the hornets' nest and WISH our worries were limited to the pesky mosquitos. I have trouble seeing a war with Iraq as a solution to terrorism.

Who are those hornets? Some people think Iraq is the lure.

moraino... interesting theory. And I do mean that! Do you have any references that I could read? I really am interested... my sarcasm switch is completely turned off. (a rare thing indeed!)... I happen to think you may be correct but I have nothing to base that on but a little niggling feeling.

Sasha,

Please click here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB22&Number=199541&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Visions and prophecies are controversial. But since we are facing a very crucial moment in history that I am posting this. Please don't raise any debate regarding this.

God bless us all.

Henry

Did I miss some major theory here? What up?

moraino - the hornets are the OTHER terrorists who have yet to achieve their goal.

One may not need to heed to the message of the terrorists, but at least hear them out - they have a message they want to get off their chest, but nobody's listening. Attacks inducing fear into communities (such as 9/11) are done for a reason. They don't happen instantly. They are the result of much planning over a long time, the result of a progressive deepening of their opposing views/attitude to that which prevails in "western" culture/society.

I HAVE heard them out:

Here is the most significant part of what they are "trying to get off their chest":

Quran; Sura 25, Aya 52:
Therefore listen not to non-believers but fight Jihad against them a great war, with it.

Quran; Sura 66, Aya 9
O Messenger, fight against the non-believers and the hypocrites and remain firm against them.

Quran; Surah 008: Ayah 067
It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. (In other words, kill everyone until the entire world is converted to islam)

Quran; Surah 002: Ayah 191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;

Quran; Surah 004: Ayah 089
....But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

Quran; Surah 009: Ayah 005
....then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them; seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

Quran; Surah 033: Ayah 061
They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy.

Quran; Surah 008: Ayah 060
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know.

I agree with the initial post in this thread, but the #1 lesson I got from 9/11 is that the US should not have been meddling in the conflict between Israel and Palastine in the first place.

The Arab nations believe that the US has armed Israel to the teeth against the Palastinians and that is why we are hated there. I feel like the US is like a helpful guy in a bar who sees two drunks fighting each other and steps in to break up the fight. He then gets his lights knocked out because he got between them. Screw that! Let the two drunks beat the stink out of each other. Call the police (or the UN) and let the authorities sort things out. My first interest is to go home uninjured. But the US is really like the helpful guy in the bar who gets between the same two drunks every Saturday night for a year with the same result. We have taken hits from numerous middle-eastern countries for several decades now. When are we going to figure out that we need to hang out in a different bar?

Frankly I'd like to see either country completely overrun the other and put a final end to it all, or agree on a boarder and put up a high wall between the two.

That opinion doesn't directly apply to Iraq in the short-term, but that is what I learned from 9/11. Unfortunately that is probably what the 9/11 terrorists wanted me to learn and I hate to give them even that tiny victory, but there it is.

I say do what is necessary to neutralize direct threats to the US and then get completely out of the middle-east. And I mean completely out especially any economic or military aid to Israel or Palastine. If we do, we will still be hated in the region for many generations, but at least we will not be continuing to fuel the hatred for eternity.

[ QUOTE ]
Lurker said:
I say do what is necessary to neutralize direct threats to the US and then get completely out of the middle-east. And I mean completely out especially any economic or military aid to Israel or Palastine. If we do, we will still be hated in the region for many generations, but at least we will not be continuing to fuel the hatred for eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you learned that from the US media and not from 9/11.
Muslim terrorists are active in quite a few countries that have nothing to do with either Israel or Palestine.
I think the figure I heard last week was that out of the 22 major armed conflicts going on in the world right now, 19 of them are Muslims fighting against their non-muslim neighbors.
Israel and Palestine are handy scapegoats but they are not the root cause of this terrorism.
Just my opinion.

Agreed. I would like to see the US stay out of all of those conflicts. I believe the US has been most heavily involved in the Israel/Palalstine conflict for the longest time and therefore has exposed itsself to the greatest risk there. That particular conflict is the subject of great sympathy throughout the middle-eastern Arab nations and also among Muslims throughout the world.

It should not be the role of the US to intervene unilaterally in these situations, but to allow the UN to do so on behalf of the community of nations (unless the US is acting to directly protect itsself).

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agent8698 said:


3. Terrorists are like mosquitos: it doesn't do any good to squash just a few, we have to drain the swamp (destroy their breeding grounds). There are several terrorist swamps in the world. There is a swamp in Afghanistan called Taliban, we already drained that one, I think. Iraq is next on the list....I say, drain the swamp, but the anti-war crowd says: "no, don't do that, that would be war! No! We want peace! Peace! Why rush to war when we can have peace instead!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Max

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I seem to remember a saying that went something like" ...Its hard to remember that your main objective was to drain the swamp when you are up to your *** in Aligators!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Onyx said:
"It's a pity more Americans don't live in World Trade Centres."

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I would very much like to know what you mean by that.

I believe I too would like to know what you mean by that Onyx....

But you can email me if you'd like.

[ QUOTE ]
Onyx said:
--------------------
©nyx

"It's a pity more Americans don't live in World Trade Centres."

"Give me the freedom to make decisions, even if they are not always right."


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I wondered about that, too, Onyx, especially since it is part of your signature. So you hope that more Americans would live in World Trade Centers? Explain please.

Max

RE: my sig. Please refer here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB22&Number=198745&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2