BAN HID headlights, FINE users, JAIL converters!

More and more of these idiots are on the road every night. Could someone explain to me why bluish-white is "cool"? The last time I checked, our eyes evolved around a yellow star, not a blue one.

Ban these headlights, fine people that are using market-installed HID headlights, and throw the idiots using "HID converters" in jail for the weekend. The even bigger idiots that are using blue-tinted halogens or blue filters (why??) should be thrown in jail for a week.

Edit: This post was made partly with tongue in cheek, but I really can't stand those HID headlights out there. I think it is really pathetic that there are even non-HID headlights that try to imitate them as a pure gimmick.

I saw a vehicle just the other night that was using a heavily blue-filtered halogen, and the light emanating from it was significantly dimmer that the stock halogens on surrounding cars. Scuse me, but isn't the main purpose of headlights to... illuminate?

i have 5000k hids in my headlights.

btw if you dont look into the light it doesn't hurt your eyes :nana:

shortstack said:

i have 5000k hids in my headlights.

btw if you dont look into the light it doesn't hurt your eyes :nana:

Click to expand...

:laughing:

Bill

I only take issue with the dolts that use blue/purple/green modules or their Civic's stock reflector throws light everywhere but the road.

There's just no explaining some tastes...

Conversions used in halogen projector assemblies are practically indistinguishable from purpose-built HID projectors.

idleprocess said:

Conversions used in halogen projector assemblies are practically indistinguishable from purpose-built HID projectors.

Click to expand...

Only by naked eye, which isn't anywhere near a good enough measuring tool to determine beam pattern parameters essential to safety performance. Halogen and HID projectors are not optically the same; it's not just a matter of adapting the bulb. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps —*reflector or projector — do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See here.

Cry me a river... A projector with a HID isn't any different than a halogen. The optics are the same. If it wasn't we wouldn't be able to drop a HID bulb in place of a Halogen in a spotlight / searchlight and have it work.

We should lock up the people with blue tinted halogen bulbs first then the people who put HID's in a headlight that doesn't use projectors.

I've got HIDs on my truck but I don't have retro fits. I know I'm one of those glare producers with my halogen housings but no blue crap here. I've got Philips 5000k Ultinons though they look more like 4800k - 4500k or so.

lighthead09 said:

More and more of these idiots are on the road every night. Could someone explain to me why bluish-white is "cool"? The last time I checked, our eyes evolved around a yellow star, not a blue one.

Click to expand...

I don't see any problems with an HID conversion, as long as you're going to do it right. I agree that the blue tinted and filtered lights are atrocious and dangerous, but using a factory 4300~4500 Kelvin HID light is going to put out the beam pattern that is closest to the color that our eyes are used to during the daylight (from the sun). Not yellow. The sun is not blue, but if you look around you in the middle of the day, is everything yellow? No, its white. That is why the Automotive HID makers (such as Bosch and Philips) build HIDs at a standard 4300K white color.

^^^ that and 4300k gives the most lumens, where as the the other color hids put out less

I think you get even more lumens at 3000k, but then you have yellow headlights. However 3000k bulbs are perfect for fog lamps.

Stereodude said:

A projector with a HID isn't any different than a halogen.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is...no matter how many times you insist it isn't.

The optics are the same.

Click to expand...

No, they aren't...no matter how hard you wish they were.

Ignorance is solved by learning, not by baselessly insisting you're right and the science is wrong.

If it wasn't we wouldn't be able to drop a HID bulb in place of a Halogen in a spotlight / searchlight and have it work.

Click to expand...

One doesn't follow from the other, because spot beams are optically much, much simpler to create than headlamp beams.

LEDobsession said:

I don't see any problems with an HID conversion

Click to expand...

Well, sure, if you're not going to look, you're not going to see! The problems are real, and they are large, and they have been explained in great detail in numerous threads here on this board and in external links. It looks to me as if you don't want to see any problems with HID "conversions".

Scheinwerfermann said:

Well, sure, if you're not going to look, you're not going to see! The problems are real, and they are large, and they have been explained in great detail in numerous threads here on this board and in external links. It looks to me as if you don't want to see any problems with HID "conversions".

Click to expand...

I said as long as you do it correctly.
Maybe I dont "want" to see any problems because I really like HID. If I somehow could, I would use LEDs as my light source but that technology is not yet ready for my budget. But, if there is so much involved in producing a correct HID beam pattern and controlling the throw, and the manufacturers have done that, why couldnt someone else that has the resources and knowledge do the same thing in a non-factory-HID car?

I dont mean to argue about this so much, but how many wrecks have been caused by an aftermarket (but still at a factory 4300k) HID conversion kit? And again, I dont mean to attack, Im just curious.

All these idiots out there using HID conversions on their old Hondas don't look "cool", they look like morons. The higher the K, the lower their IQ. The ones using fake "HID" filters are major morons. Can you believe that hustlers actually sell blue film to put over halogen headlights even? What is next, spray painting your headlights blue? There probably are morons who have done that.

What is the problem with having colored headlights? Sure, it looks retarded, but its not your car. I just don't see how having tinted light is going to cause all sorts of accidents, at least compared to those people putting HIDs into halogen reflectors/projectors.

However, installing HIDs into stock headlight assemblies is a MAJOR problem. People that do this are totally irresponsible and don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. Darkzero, do you enjoy blinding people driving around with your HIDs? Please, get some projector assemblies off a car that was designed for HIDs and mod them to fit into your current headlights.

Also, halogen projectors do NOT work properly with HID bulbs. The filament is oriented completely differently in a HID bulb than a halogen, and the beam pattern is completely wrong.

See this link for a proper retrofit of HID projectors from an Acura TL into the headlight assembly of a '96-'00 Honda Civic. Page 2 of the linked thread has pictures of the finished beam, which has the proper beam cut-off and won't blind people coming at you in the other lane.

A couple of beamshots so you can see the difference between halogen reflectors and a proper HID retrofit:

Stock Reflector w/ plug-n-play HID:



Notice the terrible scattering of light and uneven beam. Worse than a SMO mag reflector! :green:

Retrofit with HID projectors:



Here you see a very well defined cut-off, with the cut-off slightly higher on the right to illuminate the side of the road without blinding oncoming drivers. Also, notice how evenly lit the beam is. Nice!

My car has stock HID's and they don't look anything like your retrofit picture. They're also not as bad as your plug and play picture.

I don't really understand what you're saying. If your car comes with HIDs stock, then they are good to go, its just the people that are putting HID lamps into their cars with no thought given to the beam pattern that are dangerous on the roads. Think you could get a wall beamshot and post it up here?

Scheinwerfermann said:

Only by naked eye, which isn't anywhere near a good enough measuring tool to determine beam pattern parameters essential to safety performance. Halogen and HID projectors are not optically the same; it's not just a matter of adapting the bulb. "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps —*reflector or projector — do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. See here.

Click to expand...

Those tests are of conventional reflector assemblies, not projector assemblies.

While the Mark I eyeball is no light meter (a fact for which we should all be thankful), if it can't determine any significant difference between beam patterns from a halogen bulb in a projector assembly and a HID module in the same assembly, I suspect that the motoring public cannot either.

I'm well aware of the fact that using a HID module for a car headlight in any form factor other than D1x/D2x in an assembly not certified for the same bulb type is illegal, however I suspect this has as much or more to do with government bureaucracy, maintaining tax revenue, and mindless adherence to regulations as it has to do with safety of the motoring public. The requirement that everything be "certified" makes HID headlamps far more expensive than they need to be.

The standards for automotive lighting vary greatly from country to country. The US has always had heavy regulation centered around absolute maximums and hard-coded limitations while European nations have always pushed for greater performance. I think it can be argued that American automobile safety rates are no better than that of the Europeans...

EDIT - This post is mostly to express my frustration with overbearing regulation and its effects on the market. As much as I would like to install some HID modules in my vehicle (equipped with halogen projectors), I won't because I don't trust any of the dodgy brands being offered in the halogen footprint my vehicle uses. The legitimate manufacturers won't touch the (dark) gray area of "retrofits" so who knows who actually made that $200 kit on ebay being advertised as some big name? My car is relatively new so perhaps I could talk to the dealer about getting an upgrade with OEM HID headlights, but that would probably set me back a few thousand dollars - with about 75% of that being pure profit for the dealer.