*Review* NeoFab LegionII

Review of the NeoFab LegionII

http://neo-fab.com/legionII/

Recently I was sent Neoseikans Legion II for the purpose of testing and beamshot comparisons with the M6 HOLA. I also included a few beamshot comparisons with some other interesting lights.

Here are the specs.

The Specs

* Powerful, Precise, Reliable Driver. ( We use 0.007 ohm resistors from Vishay/Dale. )
* Current Up to 3000mA.
* Best Current Regulation At Any Level, Without Audiable Noise.
* Reverse Voltage Protection
* 5 Exponential Levels.
* Thumb Control Without Strain On The Wrist.
* Revolutionary UI, The Easiest Way To Level Up/Down.
* Quick Access to Any 2 Default Levels.
* Built-in Battery Gauge.
* Over-discharge protection.
* Built-in Battery Holder.
* Ultimate Thermal Management.
* Custom Hi-End Parts.Length: About 177mm.
Head Diameter: 53mm.
Housing Diameter: 41.5mm


Output:
2.9A(full distance)
L1 = 98 lumens, L2 = 157, L3 = 264, L4 = 456, L5 = 742.
--by WBP

Battery level6 (full)->level5 : About 35mins.
Battery level5 (good)->level4: About 35mins.
Battery level4 (fair)->level3: About 25mins.
Battery level3 (low)->level2: About 15mins.
Battery level2 (quite low)->Warning->level1->Auto OFF: 10mins.


Run Times:

I was fortunate to have this light for a couple of weeks before having to reluctantly pass it along to the next reviewer. I really got to give the light a good work out and I went through 4 fully charged sets of 18650's during the process. The runtimes were impressive considering the overall output of this light.

High
AW 18650's 2200mAh cells provided 2:14
LG 18650's 2600mAh cells provided 2:42

Low
Tenergy 18650's 2600mAh cells provided between
22 and 23 hours. I didn't see how many minutes it lasted but I was checking it every hour.



Temperatures:

During the run-time test I measured the peak temperatures during both set's of batteries but temperatures were about the same for each. The light was set on the ceramic tile floor with no additional airflow. I really wanted to put this light to the test so I didn't go easy on it. During both sets of batteries, max temperatures were reached within about 40-42 minutes into the run. After than the light stayed at that reading throughout the run.

Ambient temp of tile:

Bottom of stainless tailcap:

Base of light body:

Hottest point on the light:

At 145 degrees the light was uncomfortable to the touch. It was so warm that I could only hold it in each hand for several seconds before I had to switch hands. The more I handled it the more the light cooled back down. During continuous handling the light stayed about 120-125 degrees. It's impressive to me that 3 x 18650's could produce so much heat and light for over two and a half hours but I guess that's just a good reminder of how much energy li-ion batteries actually store.


User Interface:

I think this unique interface is probably the light's greatest feature and at the same time a place where some of my main complaints reside. The operation of the ring itself is very beautifully smooth in both directions. There isn't any forward or backward play to speak of and in my estimation it had just the right amount of tension or spring resistance in each direction. Any more tension it might be difficult to operation with one hand (more specifically the thumb and forefinger) while any less tension might allow the light to inadvertently turn on if was in a case or stuffed in your back pocket to free a hand. The amount of knurling seemed just about right also.

To turn the light from off to high you twist the ring to the right and hold it there for about 4 seconds. After that each additional twist to the right decreases the output level down one pre-set. To turn the light of you twist and hold the ring to the left for about 2 seconds.

To turn the light from off to low you twist the ring to the left for about 1.5-2 seconds and the light comes on at it's lowest level. After than each additional twist to the left bumps the output level up one pre-set.

This is a mostly intuitive and natural set-up except that I'd like to see a right twist always increase output and a left twist always decrease output. I think that would be more natural and even after playing with the light several days I'd occasionally twist the wrong way just because of how my brain thinks.

My other complaint is that it takes far too long to turn the light from off to high, which my stop watch showed to be about 4.2 seconds. Obviously the light goes to full output the moment the ring is turned but if you set the light down before "continuous run" is engaged, it will turn back off. A blink occurs once continuous run is engaged providing a visual aid instead of having to guess. This is a small detail but very important during use. To give and example of what this might be light imagine a forward clicky that you had to hold for over 4 seconds to turn on for hands free use. During my photo sessions of the light the extraordinarily long pause caused me to grow impatient with it several times because I was busy cycling through other lights, placing the on the tripod, aiming them, taking the shots, etc. The LegionII always slowed me down. Although turning the light off takes half the time, it's still a pause that I felt was just a bit too long.

Now this is just a prototype and evedently NeoFab is still working out the details. From that stand point I'll extend them a big break but hopefully these issues can be sorted out. I think that a full second to turn the light to continuous mode, either full on or full off would be reasonable and user friendly.



Build Quality:

This is always one of those areas that can be highly subjective. Without actually testing the lights to destruction it's hard to compare one light to another and so it seems that most lights get the nod with regards to perceived toughness.

By all accounts this light seems very durable. It has a stainless bezel and tail cap which I like very much. One of the ends of the flashlight normally take the brunt of the blow if dropped and I love stainless steel because often any damage can be buffed out in the event of an accident. Obviously this is only important to us guys & gals who enjoy keeping our lights looking nice.

The light is made of 7075 aluminum which seems to be very resistant to deformation in my experience. Aluminum is probably my all time favorite flashlight material because it's lightweight and has great thermal properties. 7075 is as good as it gets in the flashlight industry so I praise NeoFab for choosing a great material.

The HA finish is very light in color which I kind of like. It sets it apart from Surefire style HA that's so common these days. It almost has a transparent look to it and appears to have a luster that other HA lights don't have unless they've been polished with plastic buffer compound. There were a few finish flaws and specs on my test sample but again, this is a proto and I don't know what else the light has been through before it came to me. It's possible that it didn't come out of the anodizing process like that but instead happened later. Maybe Neo can comment about that.

The machining is a 9.5 out of 10. It's nearly perfect in every area and a notch above nearly every production light that I own. It was difficult to locate imperfections and I had to find them with a magnifying glass. Very nice! Have a look....

Some physical size and color comparisons with the well known M6:

I was asked by Neoseikan not to take the light apart because it could damage it. So the most disassemble you'll being seeing in this review is the removal of the tailcap. This was a limiting factor in really digging beneath the surface which I dearly wanted to do but because it's a prototype certain things were off limits.


Battery configuration and tailcap threads

That beautiful emitter and reflector. Notice the magnified LED die gaps projected onto the reflector.

Output Performance vs. M6 HOLA

One of the main reasons that I was asked to test the LegionII is because I'd be comparing it to the well known M6 HOLA which has long been the one of the standard or perhaps "benchmarks" for lights this size. Here are the some results.


Legion II on high (op reflector)

M6 MN21 (fresh Energizer batteries 2017 exp)

Legion II (op reflector) (underexposed)

M6 MN21 (underexposed)

Lux measurements at 1 meter:

LegionII 14,800 (measured at brightest point outside of donut)
M6 MN21 15,600


Although the M6 threw a little bit better the Legion II would undoubtedly out throw the MN21 if the smooth reflector was installed. It's apparent to me that the Legion II is out putting more overall lumens. For some reason the MN21 didn't look as bright as it normally does so the next night I used a different M6 with different bulb, batteries, and battery carrier. The only difference with the following pictures is that the white balance was set to daylight instead of auto. Some other members asked if I could take some shots with this setting so I did. I see benefits to each but the negative effect is that the incandescent lights appear much more orange than they really are.


35 Yards, F4.0 @ 3.2" ISO/50 WB set to Daylight.

LegionII high

M6 HOLA Energizer 2017 expiration

rotating gif image of LegionII and M6 HOLA

F4.0 @ .5" ISO/50 WB set to Daylight

LegionII (underexposed)

M6 HOLA Energizer 2017 expiration (underexposed)

rotating gif image of LegionII and M6 HOLA (underexposed)

Lux measurements at 10 meters:

LegionII 13,900 (measured at brightest point outside of donut)
M6 MN21 17,800



My take on outright output. It's a really tough call when comparing LED to incan when their output levels are so close. Both M6 HOLA's measured higher lux in throw tests and seemed to increase when doing 10 meter trials, probably due to where the reflector focuses. During ceiling bounce tests the LegionII measured higher than the first M6 but lower than the second M6 tested, (Those numbers later). During general use I'd have to go out on a limb and say that the LegionII had a generally more user friendly beam than the M6. It was much wider and provided more spill which many will argue makes the better utilitarian light every time. This despite the relatively noticable donut shape in the LegionII's beam. White wall hunters my find great fault with this light because of the "donut" but in use I can honestly say that it was a non-issue for me. When pointing it at anything other than a garage door or wall the donut goes unnoticed. Look at what's gained by using the MC-E, over 2 and a 1/2 hours of 750-800 lumens, dead steady due to fantastic regulation. The M6 on primaries falls well below the LegionII's output within five minutes into their run. For some time now I haven't been a huge fan of primaries in the M6 since li-ion options are so far superior with regards to run-time and flatter output, but comparing one stock set-up to another stock set-up there is really no comparison. I have to give the trophy to the LegionII in every area of output except throw. Color temperature is far more subjective and those needing high CRI will still favor the M6 initially until the beam is orange 15 minutes later. Obviously these lights were designed for a different purpose which has to be acknowledged but for general purpose though I favor the output qualities of the LegionII.




LUX MEASUREMENTS added 4.21.09

These were shot in my integrating bathroom with the lux setting sensitivity set to 200 peak. The lights were all aimed at the opposite upper corner of the room where the ceiling and wall meet.

Camera settings were .5" @ F5.6 ISO 50 White Balance set to Daylight.


Control 1.6 lux (zebra headlamp on medium)

DEFT Q5 WC 10.9 lux

DBS V2 Q5 WC 15.5 lux

Jil EZnite 10W HID 24.2 lux

M6 HOLA (sample one) 43.5 lux

LegionII 46.2 lux

M6 HOLA (sample two) 50.4 lux

FM11 52.8 lux

Mag 1185 3C modamag reflector 78.6 lux

M6 1185 3 x 17670s 88.4 lux

WiseLED Tactical 7 x P4s 91.2 lux

DEFT Q5 WC 10.9 lux
DBS V2 Q5 WC 15.5 lux
Jil EZnite 10W HID 24.2 lux
M6 HOLA (sample one) 43.5 lux
LegionII 46.2 lux
M6 HOLA (sample two) 50.4 lux
FM11 52.8 lux
Mag 1185 3C modamag reflector 78.6 lux
M6 1185 3 x 17670s 88.4 lux
WiseLED Tactical 7 x P4s 91.2 lux

Excellent review and photos. Thanks!

Excellent review. Can't wait to get my hands on my copy.

Just a question/note - when measuring lux of the Legion II, did you measure it at the brightest part of the beam or the center? With the prominent doughnut hole, you will get a smaller reading dead smack in the center as opposed to slightly to the side (subject to how large the sensor of your meter is)

this legionII looks very promising. thanks for doing this great review! :thumbsup:

Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.

The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling?

I'm moving it to the Reviews section.

Great review, Patriot. And wise of you to compare against M6. :thumbsup:
I was initially wowed by the light and now I'm am wow wow weed.

Very interesting. Looks like a great light.

Fantastic review. All the high quality photos, great comparisons and summary make a complete review. The temperature readings were icing on the cake!
Waiting for my #14 just became much harder!!:thumbsup:

Excellent review there. Yes I would have to state the throw is drastically reduced when using the textured reflector over the smooth. However the beam is so much more pleasing and useful. The SMO reflector puts a intensely bright circle of light downrange so well that you would think it's a revised Bat-Signal.

Excellent photos!

Does the SMO reflector have a hole?

Nicely done, Patriot! I especially liked the temperature information.

Patriot said:

I think this unique interface is probably the light's greatest feature and at the same time a place where some of my main complaints reside.

Click to expand...

I bought an early Spartanian II which has the same type of control ring (in general). I absolutely agree with your sentiment above.

Patriot said:

To turn the light from off to high you twist the ring to the right and hold it there for about 4 seconds...This is a mostly intuitive and natural set-up except that I'd like to see a right twist always increase output and a left twist always decrease output.

Click to expand...

I seem to recall reading in the L2 development/pre-order thread that the review prototypes were programmed by someone left handed so the directions are reversed from what they should be. My S2 uses right-twist to increase and left-twist to decrease which I feel is a pretty intuitive association with most plumbing, volume controls, etc.

Patriot said:

My other complaint is that it takes far too long to turn the light from off to high.

Click to expand...

While I totally understand this complaint, it is far more subjective. I have felt the same way about the S2 at times. At other times I have wished for a longer delay, and the S2's left-twist delay to latch on is about the same as you measured on your L2. Let me explain my waffling. :laughing:

My S2 spends its time either in my pocket or on the headboard of my bed. If it's not in my pocket during the day that is because that pocket just doesn't fit the S2 well. (Sounds like I'll have to get a better tailor. ) Like you, when I want it to latch on I would like that to be as instant as a clicky switch. However, there may be times when the S2 is pressed into tactical duty. At those times the 4 second delay to latch on is about right or maybe a little short.

Now I'll be the first to admit the S2 is not marketed as a tactical light, and it really isn't. I programmed my S2 to start in its highest output on left-twist because that is where the longer delay to latch is. Right-twist on mine starts in the second from lowest level for navigating a house full of sleepers at night without breaking my toes. I think it is a great testament to Neoseikan's ring UI that it can be forced into tactical duty in a pinch.

I hope that perspective helps you give Neoseikan a higher score for the amazing balance and flexibility of this UI.

Shalom,
Steve

evenchaos said:

Excellent review. Can't wait to get my hands on my copy.

Just a question/note - when measuring lux of the Legion II, did you measure it at the brightest part of the beam or the center? With the prominent doughnut hole, you will get a smaller reading dead smack in the center as opposed to slightly to the side (subject to how large the sensor of your meter is)

Click to expand...

Thank you. Yes, lux was always measured where the highest numbers were reached on my "cheapie" DX light meter. I would slowly move the beam around on a fluid head tripod and record the points of of highest lux.

DM51
Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.

The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling?

Click to expand...

Thanks DM51, yes the light was easy to handle at the lower temperatures and the 20 degree drop made all the difference. Still, it caused my hand to sweat some which could get a little hard to hold onto with its mostly smooth light body. It would be interesting to test it again here in AZ in two months:sweat:

Steve Curtis
Does the SMO reflector have a hole?

Click to expand...

Big time! It's also why I focus most of my testing on the OP reflector. The beam was much better as AardvarkSagus had stated.

smflorkey
While I totally understand this complaint, it is far more subjective. I have felt the same way about the S2 at times. At other times I have wished for a longer delay, and the S2's left-twist delay to latch on is about the same as you measured on your L2. Let me explain my waffling. :laughing:

My S2 spends its time either in my pocket or on the headboard of my bed. If it's not in my pocket during the day that is because that pocket just doesn't fit the S2 well. (Sounds like I'll have to get a better tailor. ) Like you, when I want it to latch on I would like that to be as instant as a clicky switch. However, there may be times when the S2 is pressed into tactical duty. At those times the 4 second delay to latch on is about right or maybe a little short.

Click to expand...

Very Good point. By the very nature of the light and function of the twist ring I wasn't using the light that way which is probably why for me the delay was a problem. Could it be a "tactical" light? Hmm, I suppose it could be used that way for some things. I mean, it certainly wouldn't be out of place by the night stand or something. Would SWAT teams be using it? That could be another discussion I guess.







Thanks for the nice words, and your thoughts to everyone else.

Patriot

Thanks for the excellent informative review and photos. The beam comparison to an M6 really helps me to understand the Legion's beam brightness and pattern. It also appears to be well heatsinked since there is only an 11 degree temp difference between the hottest and coolest parts, but I didn't expect a big chunk of aluminum to get that hot! I guess that means that the heat generated is dispersed to the entire body nicely to allow for extended runtimes. I can't wait to get mine!

9x23

Yes great review of a very promising light. I also have one on order and expect a long wait because of production issues. These reviews keep a flashaholic going. There's a good selection in the latest crop of "hand Cannons". It seems like the Legion II will make a good choice. Thanks Patriot

DM51 said:

Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.

The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling?

I'm moving it to the Reviews section.

Click to expand...

DM51,

This info may be of some help in figuring out how "hot" the temps are relative to some better known items. A "typical" hot water heater at home on the standard setting puts out hot water at 120 degrees F to prevent scalding on kids. For commercial kitchens the hot water setting is usually 140 degrees F, and for those of you that have the newer dish washers with the Sanitary Rinse it runs at 160-170 degrees F. So.....140 degrees F is plenty hot!

9x23

Yeah, Neo mentioned to me that this review sample was made with the Left Handed UI. I was pretty confused when I was bouncing between my S2 and the L2 during my review.

Oh yeah, you better believe the SMO had a hole in the beam. VERY noticeable.

I know that a suggestion has been made to Neoseikan to change the UI to "latch" on immediately with a simple twist and release, whereas holding the ring one direction of the other longer than a quarter of a second or so would convert it into momentary mode for as long as is necessary, with no accidental "latch". I think this revision, as-is would create a far more useful interface, however I still would drastically prefer to also have the ability to switch off instantly (when it is latched on). Not as big of a deal however with a true open ended momentary mode.

Awesome review. Thank you!!

I want one more than ever.

Can't wait to see the shoot out between this baby and the EagleTacs!!

Patriot,

Did you say that you no longer have the light...and you had to pass it on to another reviewer?

Ryanrpm said:

Patriot,

Did you say that you no longer have the light...and you had to pass it on to another reviewer?

Click to expand...

Correct, it's gone now unfortunately. Usually I try to post the review while I still have the light but I've been behind with work, had some computer issues, was sick for a couple of days...so yeah I kinda got behind a bit. The material in the review is about 1/3 of what I actually collected so if you had other questions about it I might have photos or text already written which might address them.

AardvarkSagus
Yeah, Neo mentioned to me that this review sample was made with the Left Handed UI. I was pretty confused when I was bouncing between my S2 and the L2 during my review.

I didn't know that! ...lol. That explains a lot doesn't it.

Click to expand...

I fully agree with you about the interface. Instant off is in some ways more important than a delayed continuous on. To the member who made the statement about LegionII regarding "tactical lights." The delayed off is the first thing that came to mind but I was on my way out the door to work this morning. An important point though.

9x23

Thanks for the excellent informative review and photos. The beam comparison to an M6 really helps me to understand the Legion's beam brightness and pattern. It also appears to be well heatsinked since there is only an 11 degree temp difference between the hottest and coolest parts, but I didn't expect a big chunk of aluminum to get that hot! I guess that means that the heat generated is dispersed to the entire body nicely to allow for extended runtimes. I can't wait to get mine!

Click to expand...

I agree, the light is amazingly well heat sinked and I was just as impressed as you regarding the differential between highest and lowest temperatures on the body itself. I also didn't expect the temperatures to be where they where because as you also stated, that's a lot of mass to heat up. Obviously the cooling fins on the head are important and necessary. It's also another testimony, as if it was really needed, that the MC-E is being seriously driven in this light. I thought the Legion was pretty nice when I first saw it but after having the light for a couple of weeks it really grew on me. Any light smaller than the M6 which produces more output and spill than the MN21 is automatically noteworthy. That fact that it can run like that continously for two and a half hours almost seems impossible. This thing is just so darn efficient that it's hard for me to wrap my brain around it.




Thanks to everyone in this thread for their kind remarks and support of the review.