Black Diamond Icon - runtime fo 75hours on high??!

Edit: I'm talking about the new Icon, with 200 lumen max, not the old version with 100 lumen max.

Hi,
So, the Black Diamond Icon has been discussed several times now. Does anyone have any runtime experience with it? The high setting at 200 lumens, is advertised to run 75 hours on 4AA's. Not sure if they're using 2000mAh batteries for that test. But, for comparison, a similar Zebralight runs for about 5 hours on 1AA. So, roughly speaking, the BD Icon has the equivalent single AA rating of 18 hours, or three times more efficient than a Zebralight. Again, neglecting the run-time advantages of smaller mA draws...

But still, pretty impressive if the claim is true. And it's suppose to be regulated.

Anyways, haven't found out what kind of LED is in this thing. If anyone knows anything more, please share!

Had one. Buy something else.

moonfish said:

Had one. Buy something else.

Click to expand...

lol. Not a fan then? What didn't you like about it?

i'm guessing that's 75 hrs of declining output to 10% of max after it falls out of regulation.

if they could somehow get 200 lumens for 75 hrs out of 4x 2000mah 1.2v AA Eneloops, the math on that theoretical setup would have to look something like this:
4 x 2ah x 1.2v = 9.6wh
9.6wh / 75h = .128 w
assuming 100% driver and optic efficiency, the led would have to generate 200 lumens with just .128 watts = 1562.5 lumens per watt !!!

reppans said:

+1.

IMHO, compared to modern LED multi-modes from true flashlight companies, the lights from these camping companies are: inefficient, bulky, fragile, single purpose, and with annoying UIs and multi-batt configs. I'm a camper and have a half dozen Petzl and Black Diamond headlamps and lantern that have now gone into storage after owning the Zebralight and 4/7s Quark with their ultra-efficient low lumen modes.

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Well, I love my Zebralight, and I agree that Zebralight is better than the BD technically, but Zebralight only comes in single AA form factor. For the times when you want a headlamp, an actual headlamp seems to work better than a Quark mounted on a headband. Also, headlamps are much better looking than flashlights mounted to your head. Small fashion concern perhaps, but still.

Overall, the "real" flashlight companies (as opposed to "camping equipment manufacturers"), don't put out as much for headlamps as handheld flashlights.

I like that black diamonds have pretty low modes and are infintely adjustable. I use the low lumen modes way more than any other mode. I think it was Quark's website that said the two most often used modes are moonlight and max. But for me, it's moonlight and low.

You didn't say which ZL you have, I have the H51w, it makes a fine, fine headlamp - so I'm not sure what you mean by "for the times when you want a headlamp." Not to mention, of course, it makes a great EDC jeans pocket light, and I frankly don't even bother with the added bulk of the headband half the time because the 90-degree angle with clip, just gives you plenty of hands-free use options, include tail-stand pointing. Their 90-degree design retains the best of both worlds without any significant disadvantages that I can see.... can't say that for any of the camping co. headlamps.

Also not sure what you mean by "only comes in 1xAA format?" I can't imagine ever wanting to use a 4xAA format unless we're talking a lot more lumens or a lot more runtime. On the low modes we seem to favor, the runtimes are comparable, and I'd argue much better if mixing moonlight in when you can.

coachclass said:

...But for me, it's moonlight and low.

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Well now we're talking - those 2 modes constitute about 85%+ of my useage. Up to 300/500 hours of runtime (NiMh/Alk) on 1xAA, ~2 oz with batt..... what's that worth to ya? The 4 lumen low of the Icon would be very annoying to me trying to read in my tent, for example, while moonlight is perfect. Why kill both my night vision AND my batts at the same time (btw, hate red light to preserve NV - esp, when moonlight's perfect).

With THIS COLLECTION of lights, I am constantly disappointed when they [constantly] die and I have go charge/swap [multiple] batts. I just swapped my Quark 1xAA batt last night, I think after about 3 weeks of use, about 2hr/day, thinking I have to be nearing the end of the batt. Popped it my MH C9000 charger and discharged it to check what was left - 1150 mah remaining... I wasn't even close to half done yet! So previous disappoint is now current amazement.

And this is a huge UI pet peeve of mine, particularly for low lumen fans like you and I. All these camping co. lights ALWAYS start out on high forcing you to cycle to get low... and BD's current ramping UI makes it even more of a PITA... you have to wait the 2-3 seconds to get there! You'd think a camping co. would understand something about preserving nigh vision and start you out on low (once again, for me red light is like using 2 wrongs to make a right).

As far as hands-free is concerned, I'll agree that it's going to be impossible to beat a headlamp. But as mentioned, the ZL H series "headlamp" loses nothing to BD or P as a headlamp, yet is so much more versatile for hand-free EDC use and carry. But truth be told, I just have this thing for the cylindrical tail clickies and prefer to EDC my Quark, including using it for camping sometimes. For hands-free, I rig a cord up and "wear" the light cross-chest with either the light hanging under my arm pit, or flipped the other way, on top of my shoulder, by using a "locking" knot to hold it position. I can also wear it around my neck (if I'm wearing a collared shirt/jacket) or on my head, but of course the head is not comfortable for extended use. Here's a pics of the knots I use - wiki "cow hitch" and "adjustable grip hitch" to see how to tie them. Sometimes, I just like not having something on my head. Lastly, here's an idea for using a flashlight as a lantern... this will total replace my BD Apollo , even when space and weight are non issues. I always EDC my light, some cord and this "business card."

Hey, if you like the BD Icon, go for it - it's your money. I won't be going back tho.

While I doubt that the Icon will be able to do 75 hours of runtime on high I don't see where a purpose built headlamp like it is inferior to a ZL. I'm one of the apparent minority on CPF that doesn't mind a bit of extra weight on my head for a higher output and multiple beam patterns. While BD has some semi complicated UI's they're not that difficult to deal with once you have a little practice. How low is the lowest output level on the new Icon? If its like my BD Storm or Spot then it can get pretty low. Now if its like my Apex's its not really that low, but its still useful for navigating a trail, even a rough one. Anyway, I imagine you would get a couple of hours on high with Eneloops and much longer on a medium setting.

This will be my last comment on the ZL's in this thread as I don't want to take it off topic but there are a lot of purpose built headlamps out there that do a great job. I do wish PT, BD and Petzl would make a model running off 2 AA's or even 1 AA but even then they have some excellent designs. Yet everytime I see someone asking about a 4AA headlamp or 3AA headlamp I see ZL get put up there like its comparable. I don't see how ZL's can be compared. They're a whole different type of headlamp, much like the high end caving brands don't compare to the brands that I just mentioned. Each has its merits but you're trying to suggest an orange to someone who wants an apple. Just some food for thought.

WDR65 said:

....I do wish PT, BD and Petzl would make a model running off 2 AA's...

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Guess you missed out on BD's Zenix IQ 2xAA headlamp.... I have 2 of them, in the pix linked to above .

I don't see what's so apple and oranges, both are in the same price range, both hit 200 lumen highs, both have night vision preservation modes, both are headlamps, and both run off common AAs. I really didn't get on my soap box until the OP mentioned his most often used modes were moonlight and low, as are mine, and which I think is quite rare around here. For someone running most of their time at these low levels, the runtimes should be directly comparable despite the battery disadvantage - if mostly moonlight, then the 1xAA will leave the 4xAA behind. Also the UI's ability to quickly get to those low levels is important.

What does "purpose-built" mean? I'm a long-time camper and have a far larger collection of "camping" headlamps and lanterns, than I do flashlights, and I personally find them to be garbage next to what the flashlight companies have cobbled together for camping use (I'm going to order the Quark Prism kit next) :shrug: . Everything that used to drive me crazy about BDs/Ps headlamps was suddenly fixed when I found 4Sevens and ZL here.

Even running in the higher lumen ranges, while I can't argue the 4xAA BD will beat out 1xAA ZL, I'd say a second AA would make it pretty darn close.

reppans, have you owned a 2012 BD Icon?

Reppans,
I'm sending a PM as not to derail this thread from the OP's question.

robostudent5000 said:

reppans, have you owned a 2012 BD Icon?

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No, but I was in Eastern Mountain Sports playing with one and chatting with the salesman a couple of days ago. I was just trying to see if they've (and Petzls) updated anything significant since my Zenix IQ. Other than the max lumens, auto ramping (like my Apollo), and red lights, no, it's not really much different.

To a large extent, I'm try not to get involved in these discussion, as I consider myself a rare bird with a heavy bias for moonlight and other low lows, while most people here seem to favor highs... guess I just got carried away ranting on what drove me crazy with the camping headlamps/lanterns, when the OP mentioned those low lows were also his most often used modes. Also hate how these companies companies can get away with the unregulated runtime specs, luring people in.

OK, I'll stop now.... don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. (I'll PM ya back WDR65).

Actually, this has been a good discussion, thanks to all. And I think it's actually useful to compare the Zebralight to the BD Icon, since I have a Zebralight. I'd like to respond to reppans and wdr's comments.

reppans, the Zebralight I have is the H51W, same as you. And I agree that the biggest advantage of ZL (and a con for the BD) is that ZL starts on low and goes up. And I'm also a fan of neutral tints. But, despite using moonlight and low modes most often, there are times when a longer lasting high mode is needed, like if you're biking at night or hiking. The Zebralight in moonlight lasts months for me, but at max mode only lasts an hour or so. When I use it on max, I always feel like I need to swap to fresh batteries, and bring an extra battery. And 200 lumens spread across a floody lamp doesn't let you see very far ahead. I also like the top head-strap option sometimes depending on the situation. It's just hard to make a light that fits every situation, even if the Zebralight fits 95% of what I need a headlamp for. Having a dedicated headlamp like the BD Icon I think fills some of the missing capability of Zebralight.

And I think the 2012 Icon has some features that aren't seen in any of the other headlamps (besides Zebralight). My favorite is the very low mode. Most other headlamps don't have this. Also, looking at the runtime chart on the BD website, it looks like it can hold 200 lumens for 5 hours, and then it seems to go into unregulated decline after that. It also seems to have good heat dissipation from the aluminum housing, although I don't think it does the trick that Zebralight does of directly transferring the heat from the emitter to the housing. The 4-AA format I have reservations about. I kind of think 3-AA is good compromise between runtime and weight.

To answer wdr's question, the low on the 2012 Icon goes to 4 lumens (both on the spot and the smaller flood LED's). That's a pretty nice low. Interestingly, the BD Spot (which I own) is also rated at 4 lumen low, and when I compare this to my Zebralight's 0.18 lumen moonlight mode, the Black Diamond is actually dimmer. So, I think BD isn't reporting the lumens correctly, which is fine. I like my lows very low. It's definitely low enough to read with.

I'm waiting for some beamshots to come out.

I also give some slack to headlamps like the icon where the battery unit is in the back. If you want more batteries, and want even weight distribution, that's the best way. But it also adds cost. So, even though the Icon is about $80, and the Zebralight is around $60, you have to recognize the inherent higher cost of the battery pack design.