Hella 4000 Cornering Beams

[panowie]

I'm a seasoned 4000 FF user, in the driving beam pattern. I was recently recommended the cornering beams - I wonder, how are the cornering beams in reality?

I need a true spot type beam - for lighting up the side of the road and the ditch. Is the cornering beam really that effective?

[panowie]

Oops - meant to say I need a true flood pattern beam. Spots I already have....

[NFT5]

I had Hella Rallye 4000 spread beam on my current vehicle originally but later changed them to 2 x long range spot because they didn't have the range I wanted. I did test a combination with the wide beam; it had excellent width and a very even light - but is basically a fog light so insufficient range to be of any real use (except in fog). Since I already have separate fogs it wasn't suitable for me and since the Australian Design Rules permit 4 auxiliary lamps I now have a separate set to provide a short to medium range, wide beam. Because of space limitations they are a 100mm diameter light, somewhat compromising maximum performance, but good enough to fill the void. They are correctly wired to turn off with the driving lights and high beam when switching to low beam. A solution like this might be useful to you, as well.

Scheinwerfermann suggests in another thread the use of Compact 100 fogs as an auxiliary low beam/cornering light. Here that would contravene the regulations if used with low beams when conditions were not foggy. This may apply to you also, however, I understand your post as a need when on high beam, not low.

Below is a link to a comparison of various lights:
http://www.ultimate4wdequipment.com....monthly(1).pdf

It's by no means complete and the combinations vary somewhat but it is useful as a rough guide. If you have a look at the beam shot and lateral lux readings you'll see that the Cibie Oscar SCs trounced everything else for width. If you wanted something with excellent width and still reasonable range (1.7 lux at 250m) they might be well worth considering.

Another option. Here the ADRs do not apply to auxiliary lights so doing an HID conversion is no problem. If your local rules allow the same you could consider converting your current Hella 4000s to HID. If you look at the beam shot for the Rallye 4000/Predator HID you'll notice how much improved the width is compared to halogen. Strangely, this is one of the few instances where the different shaped light source actually works in your favour. The isolux diagrams on the Hella site confirm this and I can too. There may be some differences in the reflector design between the Predator and 4000 series but the effect is the same - noticeably improved width, not to mention the $2500 saving on a pair.

[Alaric Darconville]

Here the ADRs do not apply to auxiliary lights so doing an HID conversion is no problem. If your local rules allow the same you could consider converting your current lights to HID

No, the ADR does not permit HID kits.

Strangely, this is one of the few instances where the different shaped light source actually works in your favour. Compare the isolux diagrams on the Hella site to confirm this.

The Hella 4000 FF comes in halogen and HID versions; these versions use different reflectors designed for the particular light source. Ever wonder why Hella doesn't make an "HID kit"? It's because they know it's not as simple as changing the light source-- and they know the kits are illegal 'most everywhere.

Below is a link to a comparison of various lights:

And they ranked Lightfarce above Hella? I sure hope they shut the window after their credibility flew out of it-- there's a storm coming.

[NFT5]

The Hella 4000 FF comes in halogen and HID versions; these versions use different reflectors designed for the particular light source.

I believe I covered this is the next sentence:

There may be some differences in the reflector design between the Predator and 4000 series but the effect is the same - noticeably improved width, not to mention the $2500 saving on a pair.

No, the ADR does not permit HID kits.

Quite true, for headlights. I may be new here but I'm not new to forums and I did read the rules. I am definitely not advocating an HID kit in headlights which, as you say, is "illegal 'most everywhere". But, we are not talking about headlights, we are talking about auxiliary or driving lights. Chalk and cheese.

Following is an extract from Australian Design Rule 13/00 Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other
than L-Group Vehicles:

7.3. DRIVING LAMPS
7.3.1. Presence: Optional on motor vehicles. Prohibited on trailers.
7.3.2. Number:
7.3.2.1. Two or four.
7.3.2.2. To be used in conjunction with headlamps.
7.3.3. Arrangement:
No individual specifications
7.3.4. Position:
7.3.4.1. In width no individual specifications.
7.3.4.2. In height: no individual specifications.
7.3.4.3. In length: at the front of the vehicle and fitted in such a way that the light
emitted does not cause discomfort to the driver either directly or
indirectly through the rear-view mirrors and/or other reflecting surfaces
of the vehicle.
7.3.5. Geometric visibility:
No individual specifications.
7.3.6. Orientation:
Towards the front.
7.3.7. Electrical connections:
The driving lamps must be able to be lighted only when the main-beam
headlamps switch is in the “lamps on” position.
7.3.8. Tell tale: No requirement.
7.3.9. Others:
The aggregate maximum intensity of the main-beam headlamps as
specified in paragraph 6.1.9.1 of Appendix A, can be exceeded with the
fitment and illumination of driving lamps. Driving lamps do not have to
comply with ADR 46/….

I believe that this is fairly clear. HIDs in "Driving Lamps" are permitted so long as they face forward, are in one or two groups of two, don't result in reflected glare from any part of the vehicle and are wired to the high beam circuit.

In fairness, I should point out that most State/Territory regulations refer to the ADRs and do add the requirements that driving lights be operated in pairs and that certain height and positioning requirements are met. As per the ADRs, bulb type, beam pattern and output intensity are not restricted.

The situation for OP may be different. We don't know where he's from. All we can do is suggest that he check his local regulations. I did that. If the laws that apply to him do not allow HID driving lights then this option is not available to him.

And they ranked Lightfarce above Hella? I sure hope they shut the window after their credibility flew out of it-- there's a storm coming.

You are permitted your opinion on Lightforce lights. Conditions here are a little different to what you're used to. When you've driven on roads that are perfectly straight from horizon to horizon and bends in the road are literally hours apart, you may appreciate that there is a place for ultra long range lights that don't disintegrate with the dozen or so kangaroos that you've hit in a night's drive. FWIW, I did end up replacing the Hellas, with Lightforce Genesis, which have a similar beam and range. I admit that the Hellas are superior, but not by much, and at $240 to replace the insert, plus bulb and associated damage, after the third time I called it quits. The Lightforce lights can take a direct hit from a 'roo's head at 100km/h and not even blink. No contest.

At any rate, discussion on this is irrelevant. I did not make any recommendation or, indeed, mention of Lightforce. The link was provided so that OP could see the beam pattern from the Cibie lights and make an assessment on whether they might suit his need.

I offered my experience and three possible solutions to OP's question. Do you have a suggestion as to what may solve his problem?

[FlashPilot]

BEFORE - Searchlight with 100 watt halogen H1

After - Searchlight with 100 watt HID H1

[Scheinwerfermann]

The beam pattern is unaltered

Sorry, no, it is not.

[Echo63]

It might look unaltered - but due to the difference in the way a HID bulb and an Incandescent bulb produce light, there will be a difference in the beam pattern

[Hamilton Felix]

A change in the shape (not just focal length but shape) of the light source will alter the beam to some degree. Maybe a lot, maybe a little, but it changes. The only time I've ever seen this change constitute an improvement instead of degradation was on a light so terrible that substituting an ordinary H4 high beam for the original weird 210 watt transverse filament H4 based bulb, accidentally made an awful light into a "not quite so bad," marginally useful offroad light. Many motorcyclists are proud of their (illegal) HID conversions, talking of the great illumination on the highway. The drivers they meet are not nearly so happy. For offroad use, this (and legality) isn't such a big issue. The beam pattern change from the HID conversion may be quite acceptable out in the sticks. And any reliability issues on a home made conversion won't matter, so long as the vehicle still has its original road legal headlights.


BTW, my first HID lamp was the first time I've seen beam pattern change by simply inverting the lamp. I was holding the lamp, shining onto a garage wall, got curious about inverting the beam pattern and rolled the lamp over. The shape of the pattern changed. I realized that gravity affects the curved plasma arc of the HID lamp. Just as tilting a candle lantern or one of my kerosene lamps would affect the beam, so did flipping that HID lamp.

[FlashPilot]

The reason I posted here was because google search found this thread regarding Hella 4000 cornering lights and HID. Since I couldnt find any information regarding precision results after converting the exact same lamps, I simply wanted to get the word out to anyone else considering this conversion.

Before I converted the Hella's to HID, I drove my truck into my hanger, turned on the Hella halogen lamps and precisely marked the beam pattern shape on the wall with tape. This was critical because the flat wide beam and cutoff took me a great deal of trial and error to settle on a final alignment that I was comfortable with, and I didnt want to lose it. After the conversion, the illumination pattern outlined in tape did not change. Not even by the slightest amount. Also, the quality of the beam improved, with less noticeable imperfections. This might be one of the few HID conversions that arent accompanied by the many usual negative aspects seen in many other conversions. I have read several threads on vastly more popular websites that attract people that actually mod off road lighting systems, rather than conjecture based dissimilar experiences, theory and assumption. One thing that appears to be more common is that most H1 based off road light beam patterns seem to be more forgiving in their conversions to HID, whereas H4 based lamps are not.

With my conversion, I dont know if the same would work as well with lesser wattage HID's since their light source (envelope) is smaller; the envelope of the 100 watt version more closely approximates the same size of the halogen filament it replaced. Also, the focal points are identical. Many are not in cheaper systems and require reseating the bulb in the base or using shims to correct the focal point. Im also curious as to whether or not the same HID conversion would work as well in the other three beam patterns the 4000 is available in.

Again, this is an off road system. I dont care if more glare is produced or if some efficiency is lost because the design was originally optimized for halogen bulbs. If youve already made the investment for the Hella 4000 cornering beams, the conversion to 100 watt HID has no apparent negatives and brings with it overwhelming positive results. Easily the best $100 Ive ever spent. I'll leave it at that.

[Scheinwerfermann]

the envelope of the 100 watt version more closely approximates the same size of the halogen filament it replaced. Also, the focal points are identical.

Neither of those assertions is correct.

Also keep in mind that real HID lamps are engineered, designed, and built to prevent exposure to dangerous electric current. "HID kits" are not. A shock from a regular 35w HID can knock you well and truly on your butt, and can do much worse than that (interrupt your heartbeat rhythm) under the right/wrong conditions. We are talking in this thread about 100w "HID kits" made by no-name companies without adherence to any technical standards or safety regulations -- and they put out enough current at a high enough voltage to kill you.