Sylvania "Sunset Effect" LED lamps

Most LED lamps either retain the same color temperature or acquire a cooler light when dimmed. Earlier this year, Osram/Sylvania introduced their "Sunset Effect" (SE) series of led reflector lamps which supposedly get a warmer color temperature (3000k-2000k) when dimmed.

https://www.sylvania.com/en-us/products/solid.../ULTRA-SE.aspx‎




These first appeared at the Lowe's in my area around October but only recently did they put up an end-cap display exclusively featuring these lamps. They are all reflector lamps consisting of R-20 (shown), R-30, and R-40 sizes. The display at my store had two recessed cans connected to the same dimmer (Lutron Diva C.L.) with a regular LED in one and the Sunset Effect LED in the other for comparison.

I played with the dimmer for a while to see how it worked and it looks like what Sylvania did was incorporate some orange LEDs into the lamp that operated at the lower levels. On full brightness, it seemed that only the main "White" LEDs were lit but when the dimmer was turned down slightly, the orange LEDs came on giving the lamp an increasingly pinkish-red tint as it dimmed. At the lower levels (below the 30% setting), the lamp began to take on a more orange color then the white LEDs shut off completely at around the lowest setting on the dimmer leaving just the plain orange LEDs; the color reminding me of a Low-Pressure sodium lamp.


The concept goes back a little further. I read an article on outdoor lighting design and guidelines for Yosemite National Park dated May 2011 and one of the items they mentioned was "adaptive LED technology" which blended 2700K or 3000K white LEDs with red and orange LEDs in a single array for use in dusk to dawn fixtures. The light would come on at dusk with the white LEDs then over the course of two to three hours, a timer circuit would "fade out" the white LEDs while "fading in" the red/orange LED mix until only the orange light remained for the rest of the night; the idea being the lower colored lighting would reduce light pollution and wildlife impact in the later-hours.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/naturescience/upload/Lighting-Guidlines-05062011.pdf (PFD File, read page 8)

I think this is a significant step because this feature has been talked about for a long time,
both on these forums and off it. Everyone knows LEDs don't get warmer when dimmed like
incandescents do, right...?

I think this will become more popular and eventually make its way into other "bulbs."

LEDAdd1ct said:

I think this is a significant step because this feature has been talked about for a long time,
both on these forums and off it. Everyone knows LEDs don't get warmer when dimmed like
incandescents do, right...?

I think this will become more popular and eventually make its way into other "bulbs."

Click to expand...

The feature has been around a while, the question is, what are customers willing to pay for it?

Semiman

Exactly. Most folks probably have never noticed their lncandescent lamps change CCT as they are dimmed. And of those that have noticed it, some probably wish it wasn't so...

That said, I like it. And if implemented properly would want this feature. But I doubt it'll ever be implemented properly...

No they do notice it and often like it. Dimming is normally for ambience and low cct is preferred at low light levels where quality of vision is not important

SemiMan said:

No they do notice it and often like it. Dimming is normally for ambience and low cct is preferred at low light levels where quality of vision is not important

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Ala "mood lighting" and the all-too-common installation of dozens of can lights to achieve adequate brightness when dimmed to the point that you can hear them vibrate...

brickbat said:

Exactly. Most folks probably have never noticed their lncandescent lamps change CCT as they are dimmed. And of those that have noticed it, some probably wish it wasn't so...

Click to expand...

I'm one of those who, when I first installed LEDs, thought "hey, this is weird! They don't change color as they dim!". But after living with both (our hallways are still incandescent, our kitchen and family room is LED), I've decided that I detest the color change.

Here's food for thought: many in the lighting industry seem to assume that all incandescents change color when they dim, but not all do. For example, we dug out an old 3-way lamp to put in one of our twin's room. Sure enough, there is not a change in color temperature as you flick the switch through the three levels. I like that much better.

MattPete said:

I'm one of those who, when I first installed LEDs, thought "hey, this is weird! They don't change color as they dim!". But after living with both (our hallways are still incandescent, our kitchen and family room is LED), I've decided that I detest the color change.

Here's food for thought: many in the lighting industry seem to assume that all incandescents change color when they dim, but not all do. For example, we dug out an old 3-way lamp to put in one of our twin's room. Sure enough, there is not a change in color temperature as you flick the switch through the three levels. I like that much better.

Click to expand...

I feel exactly the same way. To me the lower CCT which occurs when dimming incandescents is a drawback, not a "feature" which should be emulated. If you want mood lighting, then have low-output amber or orange LEDs which supplement the primary lighting system. As you dim the primary system, the overall ambiance will be increasingly yellow/orange. I personally don't see why people want this or enjoy this, but since some do, this seems a more feasible way to accomplish it than designing a single lamp which changes CCT as it's dimmed.

I just picked up one of these. They don't seem to have heard of the Planck locus; I ran it alongside an incandescent bulb on a dimmer circuit and it got too saturated too fast... and that LPS sodium look at the bottom of the range looks nothing like the warm candle glow of the incan, which still retains a touch of blue wavelengths.

Why use yellow-orange anyway? The combination of orange-red and lime greenish white in the LPrize bulb (and I think a Cree downlight also) had the advantage of running close to Planck from the 4k range down to the low 2k (based on something I read from a link posted by one of you on this subforum back when the LPrize bulb came out), which seems perfect for this. Patent issues, maybe?

MattPete said:

Here's food for thought: many in the lighting industry seem to assume that all incandescents change color when they dim, but not all do. For example, we dug out an old 3-way lamp to put in one of our twin's room. Sure enough, there is not a change in color temperature as you flick the switch through the three levels. I like that much better.

Click to expand...

That's because your 3-way lamp is actually two different output incandescent bulbs built into one. When you first turn it on the lower output filament turns on. Medium lights the second filament. High lights them both at the same time. Since each filament is run at full power they remain at the same CCT. What changes is the watt rating of the individual filaments.

But to some extent the extra ambient heat from the other filament will cause them to be slightly higher color temp and shorter life than when on individually.

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inetdog said:

But to some extent the extra ambient heat from the other filament will cause them to be slightly higher color temp and shorter life than when on individually.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

And also to some extent the 50W filament will probably burn at a slightly lower color temp than the 100W filament unless they did something like reduce the life of the 50W slightly compared to the 100.

I have tried one of the Sylvania SE lamps and had to take it back because it dimmed to ~594nm yellow-amber rather than very warm white.oo:

That said, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this product was originally intended as a porch light replacement where you can dim it to achieve a bug bulb and brighten it when you want to see stuff, and then the marketing dept. got ahold of it?

I don't always want my bulbs to dim to a warmer color temperature but sometimes I do, (dim nighttime mood lighting for example) and it will be nice to eventually have options which accomplish this.

I bought an R20 version of the Sylvania SE lamp to play with myself but it seems to have the best dimming curve with the Lutron CF dimmers that were used in the display. I tried an old rotary-knob dimmer I had laying around and there was a very abrupt change from the 3000k to the "Low Pressure Sodium" setting. Somewhere in the range right between the two was a 2700k level but you had be be very careful to hit the "sweet spot" on the dial.

Right now, the project I'm using it for is an outdoor light that runs on the "Low Pressure Sodium" setting for dusk-to-dawn but when triggered manually or by a motion detector, will go to the full brightness.


Since my first posting, I read that other manufacturers also released products with the "Dim To Warm" feature as it is being called.

Philips has their "Dim-Tone" BR-30

Juno lighting has "Warm Dim" for their recessed can units.

USA Illuminations has "Warm Glow"

Finally, Cree recently announced a "Sunset Dimming" option for the LMH-2 modules.