Laser Safety Question

ThirstyTurtle

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I've tried my best to find answers to a question but have been unsuccessful thus far. I just ordered a 532nm 5mw laser from eBay. It appears that it will be closer to 20-30mw in reality. I'd appreciate any help you can provide.

1) Is the danger from the laser only from a direct hit or reflection?

What I mean is, if I shine the beam on a wall from 15' away, can I look at the dot without eye protection? If not, what is the distance at which it's safe to look at the dot without eye protection?

I'm nearly certain I'll only be using this outdoors but I want to be as safe as I can be without having goggles. I know where everyone will suggest getting goggles and I intend to at some point, most likely when I order a higher-powered laser.

Thank you!
 

TEEJ

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As you have no way of knowing the actual strength of the laser...generally, assuming that a reflective surface can flash the beam at your eye...and that's going to be bad.

The spot itself should be ok at the ranges you're talking about...as long as the spot is not hitting something reflective.

The tricky thing is that damage can occur before you can tell...so it's best to err on the side of caution.
 
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PhotonWrangler

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One very large problem is unexpected glints. If you're waving a laser around, it can accidentally strike a reflective surface unexpectedly. A window, a gum wrapper, a hubcap... you get the picture. You need to practice the same type of muzzle discipline as a trained shooter.

Enjoy and be safe.
 

inetdog

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If you are using it outdoors, you will have somewhat lower risks for yourself, especially if you avoid "unnatural" reflective surfaces. But remember that water droplets make a good approximation of a retroreflector.
On the other hand, outdoors you will have to worry more about injuries to others, including people outside your direct line of sight.
 

FRITZHID

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And be wary of paints with reflective particles as well, there are textured paints/surfaces that have tiny glass or mica like particles in them that can reflect unexpectedly.... personal experience with a textured ceiling and 100mw, caught me and had eye/head ache for a few days.
 

ThirstyTurtle

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What about hitting a retroreflective highway sign? I used to shine the $5 cheap red lasers I had as a kid at those and was a made how the dot got way bigger and was extremely visible. I'm thinking I should avoid such signs with this new laser...

So I can look at the dot on no-reflective surfaces from 20'+? Would light-colored flat interior paint count as "reflective"?
 

TEEJ

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There are so many variables, I'd just recommend getting the laser shields and calling it a day.

:D
 

FRITZHID

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Signs are a big no no! Lol
Flat paint, etc, should be fine at 20' but TEEG is right, best bet is glasses. Safety 1st when eyes and lasers are involved.
I have many lasers in many different spectrums and wattages and I have/use glasses for all of them above 10mw..... unless the project I'm working on just simply prohibits their use (night photography, close quarters for head space, color rendition is a must, etc.) And ALL my "viewers".... they are a must cause I won't be held responsible for others health! Lol
 

ThirstyTurtle

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Well I think I'll wait for the laser, see if I'm into it enough that I think I'll buy more in the future. If that's the case, I'll get glasses before getting another laser.

I suspect that lasers (while awesome) will not interest me as much as lights because unlike lights, they don't have much of a practical use and are much more of a "cool" show piece mostly.
 

bshanahan14rulz

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With a laser, the mW rating is supposed to be optical power. Imagine, if you will, a green spot, same size as an LED chip, emitting 0.03W. It sounds much less dangerous that way. This is because the light is not specularly reflected. For example, a typical high power blue LED, like perhaps what is in the XP-E, emits 0.75W (750mW).

All things change once that dot is shined onto something smooth and reflective. You don't have the rough surface to spread the light; instead, beam keeps going in a tight, focused manner, towards its unintended target.

Also, just because you have goggles that block 532nm effectively, don't assume that it is safe to point at your eyes. DPSS lasers like 532nm green lasers often have an IR component that wasn't filtered out (to save money). Gluing an IR filter to the front of the laser fixes that issue, though ;)
 

SkOrPn

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Gluing an IR filter to the front of the laser fixes that issue, though ;)

How much safer does an IR filter make the laser? Also, does an IR filter reduce visible brightness at all, or just the invisible IR light? Where can you get IR filters?
 

TEEJ

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How much safer does an IR filter make the laser? Also, does an IR filter reduce visible brightness at all, or just the invisible IR light? Where can you get IR filters?

The filters are IN the laser device, you don't see them. The process of producing the beam can generate a LOT of IR, and, its invisible, so you don't SEE it hitting your eye, and, damage occurs deep inside the eye because your lens doesn't reflect it as it does visible wavelengths, etc...and, IR = HEAT.

GOOD lasers include an IR filter as part of a standard assembly. Budget versions may leave it off, as you can't tell by looking if its in there, etc...especially looking at an advertisement.

If the laser's spec is a visible beam, that DOES at least act as a tracer for the invisible beam (The invisible beam is where the visible beam is pointed...), but, the IR part can be "brighter" than the visible part. That can make the visible spot APPEAR to be "ok" to look at (not that bright) but leave you unaware of the IR boring into your eye balls and damaging them. You might not even feel pain or discomfort for a while AFTER the exposure....so a long point at something can lead to quite a lot of exposure.


Laser goggles CAN include multiple wavelength protection, say vis + IR, but, they HAVE TO have gaps in the coverage even in Vis, or they would not be able to see through, etc.


Example:


14009118652_2f5a2265ed_c.jpg



Notice the coverage described on the lens:

190 - 534 nm + 960 - 1064 nm OD 7+

That means that it has an Optical Density of 7+ for those two bands.


850 - 925 nm OD 5+

The optical density is 5+ for that band.


925 - 1070 nm 6+ for that band, and so forth.

The higher the optical density, the less light gets through the lens, and the more protective it is.


Notice that there's NO protection listed for 534 nm to 850 nm...so that's the light you are SEEING with.

:D


The IR protection is in the higher bands, in this case, from ~ 850 nm upwards. ISO considers near IR to start at 780 nm for example, so these glasses let through the red end of IR. ALL of my lasers have IR filters though.



It ALSO means that these shields give a lot of protection in the UV to Green wavelengths, so blue and green lasers would be appropriate for them for example (445 nm or 532 nm, etc), but that a Yellow laser (~ 580 nm, etc...) or Orange or Red, would NOT be a good choice, and you'd use DIFFERENT goggles with OD designed for THOSE wavelengths.


These also list the % VLT, which is the percent of Visible Light Transmitted, in this case, 35% of the Visible Light Is Transmitted....similar to what gets through a regular pair of sunglasses in practical terms. A higher %VLT means those sunglasses are lighter, so your view is brighter, less is blocked, and so forth.


For example, if the OD is closer to 4, the %VLT might be closer to 50% for some glasses....depending upon how much of the visible is included in the blocking.
 
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bshanahan14rulz

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Teej had a great answer and a great explanation of the ratings of good laser protection goggles.

IR filter makes DPSS lasers a bit safer, since most cheaper goggles do not filter out the IR components of DPSS lasers. It just filters out the IR light. The filter itself looks like a piece of colored glass. You might find an IR filter in some cameras, or look around ebay for 'em. o-like does have some IR filters. I've bought a few items from them a few years ago and they got here fine, but one purchase does not make a good sample size, statistically speaking.
 

stewdogg

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If you go over to LPF they have tested tons of glasses. There is a $10 pair that offers some protection and would be better than nothing if you don't want to get into the larger investment of the eagle pair or whatnot.
I would say being new to lasers and using a power over 5mw would require glasses.
If you go over to LPF there is a story of a fella that was using a 445nm laser, it dropped and hit him in the eye for a split second. He said that he never even felt it. It only seemed like a really bright light. Now he has some pretty serious damage in his eye and there's no fix. There is one possibility of stem cell treatment for helping the eye, but due to the fact that he damaged his eye with an illegal laser no one will offer any help... I will always wear safety eyewear.
 

SkOrPn

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@TEEJ, thank you for the reply. Is very informative. However, I was looking to see if I should install a IR into a cheap green that I do not own yet. I will be using it for sighting in a crossbow scope and the dot will need to be about 5 to 6 feet (no trajectory drop at this distance) from the end of the bow. Then once the turrets are zeroed (on the dot) in I only need to make final adjustments on the horizontal turret using the supplied software and turret clicks. I have Software and complete specs on the actual drop, so with a little math (done by a computer) I can have the absolute perfect zero using a laser for initial zeroing. The pre-made laser arrows for this purpose are MUCH higher in price but nothing at all fancy, lol, its just a small laser housed in a hollow arrow. I can do the same with a cheapo from ebay I am sure. I built my own laser a few months ago, but it did not come out as expected.

I already have IR glasses but I can't see through the scope when wearing them, thus is completely useless for scope sighting. I wear corrective lenses myself but I do not remember how much IR filtering I have on them, if any. Also, my scope is a high quality model with coatings, but I do not know exactly what is being blocked or amplified, I assume for glare reductions. They bring in more crystal clear light for better target acquisition, so this worries me that they may actually help "capture" more dangerous IR. Not knowing is my worry.

The laser I select will be green so it can double for some astronomy pointing, but it will not be over 5mw. So, again my question is can I install an IR into a cheap ebay green (SD301 or 303, or JD-850 or even a 5mw pen), and be "more" assured of "some" protection and still see it on a target during a bright afternoon? OR does anyone know of a green, that is perfectly flat from tail to tip (most important), with an IR filter already, focusable, and under say $50, preferably under $20? The current model I want to try for this purpose is a SD 301 recommended by Tmack and its under $20 bucks, but he says he is pretty sure it may not have IR filtering. It however does fulfill all my other needs, flat, focusable, cheap and a great host for upgrades etc.

Thanks
 

FRITZHID

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@ 5-6', I think you'll find a DPSS green laser over 5mw too brilliant to use as a sighting device, I tried some time ago with a bullet style I'd made for guns and the green was way too bright to focus on unless a very dark target was used. I switched it over to a 15mw red and was much easier to use at those distances. Just my experience.
 

ThirstyTurtle

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Thank you for great answers, TEEJ! Certainly don't excellent information on goggles.

So let's assume this thing is more like 30mw instead of the advertised 5mw. If I use it exclusively outdoors and distances greater than 20', I should be completely safe as long as I don't get a bounce back from something reflective, does that sound right?

I'll mostly point at trees or mountains or the sky me thinks...
 

Tmack

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Yes you'll be fine. Not to say accident don't happen, but outdoor beam viewing is fine without glasses.

When I'm indoors close range, burning something for fun, or testing on the lpm, glasses are on. Beam viewing, outdoor pointing, no glasses. Just use your best judgment. If you get that feeling that you may get hit, stop and put on your glasses.

Very glad to see a safety thread.
I deal with lasers every day and sometimes I get to comfortable. You don't want your reminder to be a useless eye.
 
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ThirstyTurtle

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Thanks Tmack, I'm glad everyone who knows has made it clear to be very careful, especially with close range viewing and to be aware of reflections or dropping the laser.

It's crazy honestly because I bet most people don't know all of this and anyone could order a laser from eBay and I'm assuming most of the cheap lasers have no safety warnings so someone could really hurt themselves.

I'll be exceptionally careful!
 
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